Dose - Research Chemicals Weighing Methods for Beginners

[radiometer]

I thought it would be nice to have a thread on scale use with a bit more
focus than the "How do you measure your doses?" thread. I'm going to
describe how I weigh powders, and maybe some of you could do the
same? I'm sure my technique is not the best - it works for me, but I'd
love to improve!


Tanita 1210

First, every so often, I will break out my calibration mass set (not the 10g
weight which comes with the scale, but a set of tiny weights in varying
amount of mgs I bought seperately) to make sure that the scale is
working properly. Just a few simple tests, maybe start with 20mg, and a
few smaller and larger amounts. When I first got the weights, I spent a
LOT of time playing with them to see what this scale could and couldn't
do.

One thing it can't really do too well is register very small amounts added
slowly. In order to register smaller amounts reliably, the powder must be
put in/on something that one can pick up off of the scale and place back
down again.

In short, it IS possible to get reliable readings for small doses (say under
10mg). But it is very time-consuming, and it would just seem to risky for
me. I don't use anything that I'm trying to weigh less than say 18mg, so
this isn't a problem for me and I haven't really addressed a solution. I
think the best solution would be to buy a more professional scale.


Here's an step-by-step example, weighing 20mg using my method:

Using the gemcup, turn on scale and calibrate with the 10g weight.

Place a slick ID card (store membership cards, like from movie rental
places, work great for this) centered on the gemcup. Note the weight.
Pick up the card and place it down again a couple times to be certain of
the repeatability of this weight. Once you're satisfied with this, write
down the number and add to this the weight of your desired dose. (the
card I use weighs 3.426g, so for a 20mg dose I'll be looking for a final
weight of 3.446g)


Note: This scale has an automatic shutoff function, which is a pain in the
ass. It only takes a moment, however, to start and recalibrate the scale.
Expect to have to do this at least once if you're taking your time. I will
just go ahead and do this right before I start weighing the actual dose, so
it won't shut off halfway though.

Now just slowly add powder until you get the desired amount. You will
see that the scale doesn't really register any change as you add the first
few mg, but the final weight will be correct. When you need to remove
some, it's easier to take the card off the scale first, remove the powder,
and place the card back on. I will also do this at the end to make sure it's
repeatedly measuring the same amount.

At this point, I do a step you could do anytime earlier. I weigh the
capsule (both parts) I'm going to use in the gemcup (without the ID card),
so I can get additional confirmation of the dose's weight when I'm done.
My size 0 caps weigh 98mg consistently.

There MUST be better methods than mine for the rest, but it works for
me. I have a couple sheets of slick magazine paper ready - one for
pouring the powder, and one to place underneath while doing the
pouring, in case of spills. I fold one paper gently, carefully put the
powder near on side of the paper on the fold, pick up the paper and slide
the contents into the large side of the capsule and then close the sucker.
Some powders stick to the card and/or paper just a bit and need to be
helped along. I'm sure you can think of something to use, I use a
jeweler's screwdriver, which I also use as a spatula for getting the powder
out of the vial when weighing.

Now calibrate the scale one last time and weigh the capsule. If you've
done everything correctly, it should weigh exactly its original weight plus
the dose you wanted! Dropping the capsule in my example down into the
gemcup, I see 118mg on the readout and am ready to eat drink and be
merry.


I can see that I sure could've edited and tightened up this post a bit, but
it's ok as is, and I hope some of you will improve on it anyway.Edited by: radiometer

Reputation Comments on this post:

	this is a great thread for anyone looking into rcs. it discusses the best weighing methods and makes it a point that yo...
	Good sticky
	excellent info
	A much needed, useful thread.

[nanobrain]

argh! thread cleaned up.

radiometer, thank you for the detailed information.

now, this thread is about weighing</font>, so volumetric methods should not be posted here, thanksEdited by: nanobrain

[serpent]

i do the same with a 250mg folded piece of paper.i place the bulk on the scale in the bag to get a weight,then lift the bag off and remove estimated 20 mgs to the paper to the side of the scale.then iput the bag back on and check the weight.then iput the paper on to check that it ways 270mgs total.i then divide by eye if necessary.the scale goes up or down in 10mg increments.i have also noticed(the same as above)that adding the dose to the paper whilst it is on the scale does not give an accurate reading.i need to take or add what i need without anything on the scales,after estimating the amount,i put it on the scales to check.doing it gradually does not work.i have a proscale50x.

[nanobrain]

thought i'd make this a sticky so the the enquiring masses look here first.

now, some notes on the Tanita 1210. to increase the length of the automatic shutoff time (a bitch) and to get an accurate reading, always have Fresh Batteries.

i quite like the "Tare" function on the Tanita 1210 - after calibrating the scale, i weigh the scoop (1.426 g) and Tare the scale. i find that it is then precise with added increments as small as 2-4 mg and removed increments of down to 2 mg.

said scoop can then be used directly (with the less hygroscopic compounds) to transfer the contents to, say, a preweighed capsule (so the weight can be reconfirmed afterwards) with a gentle cha-cha-cha motion.

[sg43]

Hey just want to let you know swim received his new j percision 10 scale and used the above method, worked great, after a while he found that a empty capusle weighed 44mg and would eyebal what he thought to be 25 mg and used a small paper funnel to place it in, then weighed the capsule to see if it was 69mg, this worked very well and was alot less time consuming then using a card every time. and again thanx for the info

[meemeemee]

Originally Posted by akcom

The JPrecision is less expensive though, and unfortunately money is an issue.

I'm considering the JPrecision scale too. This scale is accurate to within 1mg vs. 2mg for the Tanita. Also, $78 for the JPrecision vs. almost $300 for the Tanita. That's quite a large difference, price is an issue for me as well. I'd like to know also if anyone else has any input on the JPrecision 10. Thanks.

[radiometer]

Hmm.

For me, to make up an example, 15mg of 2c-b would produce nothing
but some vague anxiety, 20mg an interesting but manageable trip, and
25mg would mean serious business. Don't you notice a big, unexpected
difference between trips?

In my opinion, you'd be much better off using that scale you have to
verify something like 100mg or more, and then using liquid
measurement.

[Nagognog2]

I can easily differentiate between 18mg and 22mg of either 2-CI or 2-CE taken orally.Mostly in my physical response. And my physical response is what sets up my mind before the play starts. Result: A good balance(scale) is a pre-requisite for I have in mind during the next several hours. For about $200 in the USA, you can get a good electronic model that will serve you very well with little technical training. Might be less than $200 if you are lucky. Do your homework and feel like a professional! You'll love it!


I remember a gathering at my house one night years ago. Mr. HotShot wandered in to rave about his latest dope for sale. He wasn't even sure what it was he was selling. He was an utter idiot. Before I could get to this pinhead, he had managed to give free samples of an unknown white powder to about 10 people. He did not bother to weigh it. He carried a spoon in his jacket. He gave me a spoon of "Hey Dude!" I threw him out. For the rest of the night I had to contend with 10 people on overdoses of 220+ mg of MDMA. Nice job Mr. HotShot. He was run out of town shortly thereafter.

[club222]

^

That's sad that somebody would actually do that. Not meaning to diss
your 10 friends that were victims of that guys stupidity, but the 10
people who took it are almost equally as stupid for actually taking it
without knowing what it was or how much it weighed.

[Nagognog2]

I reiterate: Shows a lack of responsibilty. I wondered where that character went after he was run out of town. Want your spoon back? I washed it.


This reminds me of Shulgin's little "Problem Child" DOM. When some callous twerp-chemist (they do exist) managed to synthisize DOM and released it in 1967 during the Summer of Love as STP, he/she/it put it out in 20mg. capsules. Whereas 5mg of DOM is more than sufficient for most folk, and it takes @2 hours to really register, folks took more than one. Big OOPS! The freak-outs filled up the ER's as a result.


I have no sympathy, less than no actually, for anyone who would and could be held accountable for giving out extraordinary doses of powerful RC's to people when they could have read the literature available - and taken proper safeguards to ensure this not to happen: e.g. buying and using a balance. Maybe, due to your dilemna of being in a continuous altered state, thishas driven you to the point of "misery loves company?" Get a grip!


&lt;end&gt;....for now....Edited by: nagognog2

[radiometer]

at one point after taking 100mg of 2c-i in 2 weeks SWIM felt like
he was tripping when he got into large groups of people

I'm sure 2c-e is far less likely to cause problems from overuse, good
luck to you, optomistic yoyager. Maybe if you tripped a bit less often,
you'd notice more of a difference.Edited by: radiometer

[Sick Jack]

So, and finally, what about the JPrecision 10 scales ? Are they accurate and reliable ?

[nanobrain]

the consensus over this and many other forums is that the Tanita is worth the few extra bucks for the built-in peace of mind.

[adzket]

i have only resently heard about rc's about 6 months ago and have been doing some research into some i may like to try though there are not many that are not scedualed in the uk so choice was limeted in first place and i have personal limeted it even fether by the ones i feel i would like to try. however i know its best to have a scale to acuratly waigh dose's but seeing as i am just starting and may not actually like them i dont want to folk out shed loads of cash for scales at the moment i would if it was something i wanted to continue with but am wondering if there is a way i can firstly messure the dose without scales. the persion i am getting of will waigh them into smaller amounts for me and i trust them to do it but if i wanted to try another dose then what as i could not ask them to messure out the whole lot into separe does for me. i have been told i can use graph paper the type with squares on them to messure against a knowen amount. is this ok or can i do it another way to start with. thanks for any advice with this.

[sloppo]

SWIM has used a MYWEIGH GemPro 50. What he does is tare the scale with half a gelcap on it, then add powder to the gelcap. It is a bit tedious but it gets the job done. The GemPro 50 is accurate to +/- 2mg, so if the scale reads 20mg, the amount is really 18-22 mg, but SWIM finds that its closer to 19-21 whena more precise analyitcal scale was used to verify.





Sloppo

[radiometer]

From another thread, hot tip for getting powder to pipe (or saving some
time on my method):

posted by gn2osis:

What you want in order to transfer material from the scale to someplace
else (a pipe, even, where permitted by Those Who Know What Is Best For
Us) is a piece of "weighing paper". Just a one-inch square will do. Wax
paper works well, and aluminum foil is even better since it won't be all
static-y. Take the paper and fold it in half twice (i.e., fold vertically,
unfold, fold horizontally, unfold) so that there's a little depression in the
center. Tare the paper (i.e. zero the scale with the paper already on it)
and use the tip of a knife to measure out each tiny crystal.

[nanobrain]

a little trick for the Tanita 1210.

say you are trying to measure a small amount - less than 10mg. you calibrated, tared, maybe added a weighing paper, etc.

now you find that the darn' scale wont register the tiny increments you are adding - there is definitely substance there, but it still says 0.000!

never fear, comrade, for the solution is at hand. simply remove the whole shebang from the scale. note how it now registers the negative weight of(your measuring scoop + material).

to illustrate, say the measuring scoop is 1.426 g. tared, with some material then added, it still reads 0.000. however, removing the scoop, i find that the scale goes to -1.430 g.

this means i have 4mg of material which has previously appeared to be weightless. the procedure seems to be valid within 2mg.Edited by: nanobrain

[allyourbase]

buy a balance, they can actually be more accurate (if you can afford mg grains) and cheap ones are all over. you could even theoreticly build your own, perhaps even get technical with a laser pointer. plus they dont have the 1 hour calibration period of most electronic diamond scales. these small scales can be sourced for 40-50 bucks with weights, although the mg grains, are expensive and easily lost.Edited by: allyourbase

[BrugmansiaBrujo]

I have an acculab PP2060D.* It has a battery, but also a wall
adapter, I always use the wall adapter when weighing small
quantities.* Seems to drift a lot less than with the battery, plus
I don't have to worry about automatic shut-off.

When weighing mg's, I make sure there is nobody else in the room, or if
they are, they sit still and don't move. Shut windows, turn off ceiling
fans, etc. You don't want air currents in there to throw you off.

No matter what the scale, or with any measurement device such as a
voltmeter, pressure transducer, what have you, the best accuracy will
be in the middle of it's range.* So you want to pre-load the scale
with something, anything, like a coin or hunk of metal, then use the
TARE feature to make it register zero, and go from there.

My scale has two ranges and accuracy ratings, 0-20gm +/_0.001gm, and
0-60gm +/-0.002gm.* So when measuring mg, I'll pre-load the scale
with about 8-10gm of weight, then use the tare.* I don't have so
much preload on there to send it into it higher and less accurate range.

Since I hate insufflation, I always go the oral route of
administration.* I found a 3/8 inch thick rubber grommet that has
the inside diameter perfect for holding a size "00" gelcap half upright
on the scale.* That rubber piece is part of my pre-load weight.

I found that not all gelcaps weigh the same, so I'll take a few of them
and separate the halves, and weigh all the big halves one by one.*
It usually doesn't take too long, sometimes on the first try, to find
two of them that weigh exactly the same.* About now is when the
talkum free latex gloves come out.* Because handling the gelcap
halves with sweaty fingers changes the weight of them as compared to
fresh out of the bag of dry gelcaps.

OK, so now we place one of two gelcaps that weigh the same on the scale
empty, and press the TARE button.* Double check that the other
gelcap still makes the scale read zero when it's empty. From now on,
pressing of the TARE button is forbidden.* So we load some
material into one of the gelcaps and place it on the scale, check it's
weight, and add some or take away as needed. when we think we are good,
we place the empty one back on the scale, and make sure it still reads
zero, to ensure the scale has not drifted.* We are using the two
identical weight gelcaps, one as the control weight for the other that
is being loaded up.* When the one with material can weigh what
it's supposed to weigh, and the empty one reads zero, and this can be
repeated at least 3 times without and evidence of the scale drifting
off by even 1mg, then we are done and happy with our dose.

P.S. Of interest to tinkerers that need to weigh micrograms, is this highly accurate homemade scale:

http://designer-drugs.com/pte/12.162.../dcd/chemistry /equipment/scale.html
Edited by: nanobrain

Reputation Comments on this post:

real nice info thanks

[nanobrain]

BrugmansiaBrujo, quality info, thanks.

[adzket]

i have just been looking at mg scales on line can i just check is 1 mg = to 0.01g or to 0.001g cheers thanks for help.

[dogcow]

Originally Posted by Sick Jack

So, and finally, what about the JPrecision 10 scales ? Are they accurate and reliable ?

I have one, it works alright. I got it for about $45 at a Jeweler's supply shop (I would NOT recommend getting one this way, the guy asked ALOT of questions!)


It claims accuracy to 0.02g and I suppose its probably as accurate as any other cheapgemilogical balance.


Accuracy below 10mg is basicallyalmost impossible. Also whenmeasuring lighter fluffypowders (2c-eremains nearly impossible to weigh out on it, even at amouts &gt; 10mg) it does not perform well. Infact I sweat every time imeasure 2ce because I have measured doses of"15mg" that could be just about anything!


It performed well measuring pot and 4-aco-dipt and some other misc things i've weighed just out ofcuriosity.


Its best to use it on a kitchen counter since they are VERY stable any slightly unstable surface and you will be completely screwed.


Here is my method :


1 - Weigh out an index card ..make note of its weight


2 - tare scale


3 - add powder until desired amount shows on screen (i use the "slurpee" spoon-straws from 7-11 to transport the powder that works great and they're free)


4 - remove index card, power cyclescale


5 - reweigh card + powder


6 - if last weigh was right, weigh out the empty 00 caps, fill and rewigh to verify.


as you can see im VERY paranoid and with the Jprecision scale you HAVE to be


In conclusion:


Is it worth the money : Yes, for $45-50 its a good scale for the money, and probably the only +/-2mg scale you can find for that price. It's useable with some time and effort. Dont expect to do any large scale pill production with it, making up a dose takes forever.


Do I wish I bought a better one : YES!!! nothing worse than going into a trip wondering if you took too much especially when trying a new substance. I wish i had saved up and spent $300 on a good scale.

[nanobrain]

^its not too late, yet... ;-)

[oldman]

I bought a mg scale from americanweigh several months back for under $100, maybe like $80. I have found it to be relatively accurate. what I usually need to do it is get a 35mm film cannister lid. weigh it take it off the scale add some material as close to the center as poss. pop it back on . After a while I've found I am pretty good at eyeballing (although I never rely on it). It takes a steady hand so I always try to do my weighing of later supplements before my initial dosing.I don't want to lose material later cause I got the shakes.


hey nagognog2 your friends were od-ing on 220 mg MDMA? That is a good dose but swim's done it a few times with no serious problems. Don't get me wrongI aint bragging or nothing but I thought most people experienced with e can usually tolerate this level. I am only asking to see if you meant to say mdma or some other chem.

[radiometer]

BrugmansiaBrujo, I too thank you for your contribution, especially your
considerations for making up more than a couple doses.

dogcow I think your method sounds very good, and could be applied to
any "cheaper" scale, the Tanita included.

I've measured a fair number of doses since writing this post, and I'd say
that if one is not weighing in the capsule itself (ala BrugmansiaBrujo) it
is essential to do that final step of weighing the empty capsule, and
weighing it again when full as a double-check - even when using my
.01mg torsion balance (utfse for a thread on this scale) I will double-
check in this manner. I prefer weighing the sample first over weighing in
the capsule initially because of this.

I think that you should consider buying at least a couple small calibration
masses to make sure that the scale is not just making repeatedly
inaccurate measurements. Even a full set is under $40.

Wearing tight latex gloves has also proved very helpful, as capsules take
on several extra mg of sweat very quickly.Edited by: radiometer