Combinations - Alcohol + Amphetamine -- does it make any kind of compound?

[crbnmnxd3]

SWIM was wondering if drinking alcohol in addition to taking amphetamines (Like Adderall, Vivance and Dexedrine) would create some kind of compound inside the body. Swim read that the combination of methylphenidate and ethanol creates ethylphenidate in the liver, and also that cocaine along with ethanol creates cocaethylene. It seems to swim a logical conclusion that adderall might have a similar chemical reaction.
Also, these compounds created from the combined consumption of ethanol and either methylphenidate or cocaine seem to clear out of a person's system much more quickly than the pure stimulant itself, so swim figured it might have two uses in ending a long, adderall-filled day.

In addition to the interactions between amphetamine and ethanol, swim was wondering about other stimulant chemicals and their potential to be modified in a significant/palpable way. Of particular interest to swim are Bupropion (Wellbutrin, Zyban), which his pet toad is prescribed to take, and other phenethylamines chems like members of the 2c-x family of drugs, etc. It seems to swim that there are quite a few stimulants and swim has only heard of ethanol related transformations involving two of the best known... perhaps the other transformations just aren't as well known or talked about?

This question could also perhaps be answered by an explanation of the mechanism by which ethanol reacts with methylphenidate and cocaine (I assume its the same mechanism).

Swim and his pet toad thank you for your answers in advance, and for the enjoyment provided by your most-necessary syntax

crbnmnxd3 added 110 Minutes and 44 Seconds later...

Hmm... this thread probably shoulda gone in the Amphetamine forum as opposed to adderall....

[gmeziscool2354]

yeah, don't think ampetamine does, its a very simple molecule and it has a simple metabolism.

but ampetamine and speed is a good combo, especially drinking a few at the end of a binge. its not wise to go overboard on any upper/downer combo tho

[Rise against]

i dont think thats a good idea because amphetamines increase heart rate/blood pressure and alcohol thins the blood. This could result in heart failure.

[miketehmp]

The reaction between cocaine and ethanol as mentioned is different than a similar reaction between amphetamine and alcohol. In the case of cocaine, a transesterification takes place, which can occur because of the presence of a ester group. Methylphenidate also has an ester group that can be lengthened (to an ethyl rather than methyl side chain). In the both cases, the structure alteration can cause the compound to bind more effectively or less effectively to neurotransmitter receptors. This changes how potent it is, how long it lasts, and other effects. In the case of cocaethylene, it lasts longer in the body, possibly due to the fact that it is binds less effectively to neurotransmitters. Also, due to unknown routes and mechanisms, this compound may cause toxicity to the myocardium. Similar effects may be noted in the case of ethylphenidate. Both of these reactions are not favorable and are produced in low yield, so in therapeutic amounts of methylphenidate along with moderate amounts of alcohol (or cocaine and alcohol), these products are probably not formed in high abundance.

At any rate, this reaction cannot occur in amphetmine. Amphetmine lacks an ester group, and instead has an amine functional group, so therefore, a transesterification cannot occur. What could possibly occur would be the formation of an ether, in which the amine group would be replaced with the ethanol, forming an ether. This reaction is extremely unfavorable, and generally only proceeds in the presence of a catalyst. In the body, it probably would not occur. If it did occur, it would occur at such a small rate that it would be negligible - not sure the effects of this compound on the body, not much information on it. If SWIY is interested, the compound that would possibly be formed would be called 1-phenyl-2-propanol ethyl ether, but it likely would not form. A handful of other compounds may result too, but these are highly unlikely. If the goal for SWIY is longer lasting effects, it has shown that the co-administration of amphetamine with antacids or proton pump inhibitors enhances the absorption of amphetamines and can lead to more potent and longer lasting effects. This can be dangerous however, as extremely high plasma concentrations of amphetamines can occur, resulting in overdose or amphetamine psychosis, so this probably is not a good idea if amphetamines are used in excess. At therapeutic levels, however, mixing these two medications would most likely be okay. These two drugs are not listed as contraindications, and many people who have both ADD and acid reflux combine amphetamine with proton pump inhibitors, antacids, or H2 receptor antagonists, all which exhibit similar effects on absorption of amphetamine into the body (related to the acidity of the stomach). For this reason, taking amphetamines along with food or drinks that are high in vitamin c (acidic, due to aspartic acid) can lessen the absorption, effects and duration of amphetamines.

In the case of mixing alcohol and amphetamines, a larger concern would be the additive effects of alcohol and amphetamine as opposed to the formation of a particular compound. Combining alcohol and amphetamines can put excess strain on the heart and other organs. Also, due to the combined effects, dehydration can result, which can lead to increased heart rate and hypertension, along with other effects of dehydration. Furthermore, the two substances can mask one the effects of the other, which may result in a possible overdose of amphetamine or alcohol, depending on the usage and metabolic factors specific to SWIY. It would probably be in SWIY's best interest to stick to one or the other. However, in therapeutic amounts of amphetamine and moderate amounts of alcohol consumption, ill effects probably would not be noted. Alcohol is not listed under the contraindications of amphetamine salts. However, in the case of amphetamine or alcohol abuse, in which large quantities of both substances are consumed, bodily harm could result.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good job! somebody knows their o-chem
	you know your shit!

[Alexander_Praves]

The possibility of (severe) dehydration, as SWImiketehmp points out, is one of SWIM's motivations for not drinking when speeding. Admittedly, though, for some reason SWIM seems to get dehydrated at a noticeably quicker rate than most other people.

Also, SWIM finds that alcohol works against speed, rather than with or alongside it. Meaning, for example, a sense of drowsiness and things starting to move at their normal rate again.

[WalkingMonstrosity]

Swim doesn't like drinking while speeding, it weakens the effects of the speed and makes him feel more drowsy and shitty.

[miketehmp]

SWIM cannot what effects amphetamines have on hangovers. On some occasions, SWIM doesn't get hangovers at all, but other times SWIM gets the worst hangovers of his life. SWIM believes that the really bad hangovers have something to do with staying up until 6 AM (as opposed to 2 AM sans-amphetamines) and drinking 20+ beers (as opposed to 10-12 on a heavy night of binge drinking sans alcohol). Oh well... everything in moderation I suppose...

[stratry]

The following was posted anonymously on another now defunct website:

Adderall would not work while on Lexapro. This was overcome by taking Buspar (as little as 5 MGs made an obvious difference) 1 to 2 hours before the Adderall. Perhaps a Buspar and Adderall combination is worth experimenting with...

Alcohol worked well with Adderall. Felt almost as if on only one drug. Alcohol lessened the jitteriness, without producing drowsiness.

[gmeziscool2354]

yeah, swim agrees with srattry about the alcohol+amp feeling like one drug. Swim needs to add that he does suffer from Add/hd so his exp may be different that for others with different brain chem