Other - Legality of CWE

[Hamburglar]

My gerbil enjoys extracting codeine from over-the-counter pills. He purchases 375/15/8 aspirin & codeine from his local supermarket.

This question is perhaps somewhat country-specific, but I'm wondering whether the CWE procedure would be illegal or not. Here in Canada, since codeine-containing pills are available over-the-counter, it only seems logical that the entire procedure would be fully legal.

The only caveat I can think of is that there might be some section of the criminal code that refers to "misuse" of nonprescription drugs for illicit uses. Nonetheless my gerbil does not possess any illegal substances during the process, so it seems like it would be next to impossible to prove in court?

For swimmers in other countries, what is your local law regarding this? For Canadian swimmers, do you know what the law is in Canada?

[TheBadMan]

If a law isn't enforceable then it is no longer a law.
How are you going to get caught doing this?
Everything you buy is perfectly legal and you can do it in the privacy of your own home.
Visit the Department of Justice Canada's website http://canada.justice.gc.ca/eng/index.html and find the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act C38-8. Codeine is actually listed as Schedule I and hence prohibited to possess or seek to posses codeine unless exempted by the regulations. The regulations go on to say that "The Governor in Council may make regulations" that can exempt a whole bunch of people in a whole bunch of ways from the drugs listed here depending on scientific, medicinal or industrial status of the drug in question.
Where that regulation is that says that you can just walk into a pharmacy, ask for codeine and get it, is a mystery to me.

Found it. The Narcotic Control Regulations section 36 states

(1) Subject to subsection (2), a pharmacist may, without a prescription, sell or provide a preparation containing not more than 8 mg or its equivalent of codeine phosphate per tablet or per unit in other solid form or not more than 20 mg or its equivalent of codeine phosphate per 30 mL in a liquid preparation if

(a) the preparation contains



(i) two additional medicinal ingredients other than a narcotic in a quantity of not less than the regular minimum single dose for one such ingredient or one-half the regular minimum single dose for each such ingredient, or

And legally you are allowed to obtain a narcotic as long as it is not in contravention of the regulations and a pharmacist may sell it to you, but section 36 also states:

(2) No pharmacist shall sell or provide a preparation referred to in subsection (1) if the pharmacist has reasonable grounds to believe that the preparation is to be used for purposes other than recognized medical or dental purposes.

SWIM says that when he was addicted to codeine he realized that pharmacists would probably not sell it to him if they realized, so had to go to a different pharmacy as often as possible.

[3xtr4]

Originally Posted by TheBadMan

Everything you buy is perfectly legal and you can do it in the privacy of your own home.

So are cannabis seeds in most countries. Doing what you like with those can get you into trouble - just because it's legal to buy doesn't mean you can't break the law with it.

CWE is, SWIM thinks, illegal. SWIY is producing a class B drug - that's UK law - with legal products, that's illegal. Where do you draw the line - extracting the codeine from 15 tablets? What about 5000 tablets for commercial resale? SWIM finds it impossible to believe that CWE is legal.

Another thing is that, under UK law, tablets can be sold as long as they are <= 12.8mg of codeine. Preparing higher amounts of codeine is effectively have a tablet that is >12.8mg of codeine which, without a perscription, is illegal.

[Hamburglar]

Thanks for the reply, BadMan. My Gerbil is not at all concerned about being "caught," he is simply curious as to the legal ramifications of the CWE process.

The information you provided is interesting, but I already knew that codeine was legal up to 8mg per tablet. I also understand that the pharmacist is not to sell you something if he or she believes you will use it for "other purposes", but that does not indicate that extracting codeine, for example, is illegal.

[Alfa]

Codeine is a controlled substance in all countries that have signed the UN convention on psychotropic drugs. And this convention also obligates countries to ban preparation of controlled substances.

You might have read something about magic mushrooms, being illegal in several countries, because they are seen as preparations of psilocin. Psilocin is a scheduled substance under UN law.

What the UN means by the term 'preparation' specifically, is among others; to extract a controlled substance or to mix it in a solution, blend, pill or to apply it.

CWE of a controlled substance is a breach of the UN convention and the national law that are the result of this treaty.

[TheBadMan]

lousy United Nations always ruining peoples' fun.

[TheBadMan]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Codeine is a controlled substance in all countries that have signed the UN convention on psychotropic drugs. .

According to Wikipedia:

In 2000, the International Narcotics Control Board chastised Canada for refusing to comply with the Convention's requirement that international transactions in controlled psychotropics be reported to the Board.

This is with respect to the convention you mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convent...pic_Substances

Edwards, Steven (2000-02-23). "UN Blasts Canada for Hypocrisy on Drug Trade". The National Post. http://www.marijuananews.com/news.php3?sid=126. Retrieved on 2006-04-15.

There has to be an exemption in some sense if you can still purchase it from a pharmacist. It seems sensible to suspect than the resulting solution of an extraction would be technically illegal to possess, but that may not be the case. International treaty obligations will be embodied in the laws of each country differently, so it is really just a matter of trying to find a specific clause in a law which means the codeine extraction is illegal to possess. If the police were to arrest you for a CWE, they would have to be able to very specifically cite a specific law which they are accusing you of breaking. They can't use "common sense" and just informally accuse you of breaking the law. It may be that as long as the preparation is for yourself, it doesn't matter what you do with it. It may not be specifically illegal.

[jaffacake]

Originally Posted by TheBadMan

According to Wikipedia:

There has to be an exemption in some sense if you can still purchase it from a pharmacist.

If the police were to arrest you for a CWE, they would have to be able to very specifically cite a specific law which they are accusing you of breaking. They can't use "common sense" and just informally accuse you of breaking the law. It may be that as long as the preparation is for yourself, it doesn't matter what you do with it. It may not be specifically illegal.

But you arn't buying "codeine" from the chemist. You're buying codeine combined with paracetomol.

I think once you start preparing the codeine and extracting the codeine then you're clearly breaking the law. I imagine if the police found a glass of CWE in the fridge they'd take it away, find it contained codeine and charge you with preparation of a class B substance and possession.

[jon-q]

There has to be an exemption in some sense if you can still purchase it from a pharmacist

Unless the law has recently changed OTC purchased Codeine is covered in the UK under schedule 5 of the Misuse of drugs act. This allows codeine/APAP preperations to be sold by chemists.
Schedule 5 This schedule covers compound preparations like cough mixtures and anti- diarrhoea medicines that contain tiny amounts of controlled drugs like codeine, it also states that these tiny amounts "must not be easily extractable"
A CWE preperation clearly breaches these requirements.
Q

[Hamburglar]

Thank 3xtr4 and Alfa. You have confirmed what I suspected. Excellent information.

My gerbil will keep any of his activities on the DL.

[sylvanshia]

Swim believes itd be the same kind of charge as making meth... yea ll the products swiy starts with are legal but manufacturing it into something illegal is still considered illegal

[TheBadMan]

I'm not in the UK, so that would not apply to me.

"If the police were to arrest you for a CWE, they would have to be able to very specifically cite a specific law which they are accusing you of breaking."

You may have found the relevant law for the UK.

All I could find in Canadian law was that a pharmacist was not allowed to sell codeine if (s)he believed it would not be used for medicinal purposes and (IIRC) codeine is listed as a controlled substance.

Though, SWIM has a very hard time imagining Canadian police bothering to toss a CWE codeine extract.