Culture - I don't believe in ADHD.

[doggy_hat]

I don't think ADHD is a genuine disorder. While many people think that not being able to spend hour upon hour of everyday reading textbooks, or writing essays, or doing desk work of some sort means that someone has a deficit in attention, I think being able to do that without a problem is insanity.

Compulsory school is only about a century old or so, and the explosion in numbers of jobs in the office, or other nonphysical labour is also new. Even writing is only a few thousand years old. And for the 2 million or so years before the dawn of civilization, people did little more work than what was necessary to feed and shelter themselves(which was a lot less work than what we do today, and was a physical activity, unlike sitting at a desk for 8 hours). Only recently, our society has become so demanding of us that we need to take speed pills just to keep up.

Maybe ADHD isn't an inability to perform at a normal level, but society is simply demanding too much of us, and we need to slow down? Maybe institutionalization at very young ages(school), and the constant bombardment of stimuli(weather it be TV, videogames, cellphones, ect) has atrophied our mentality, making it more difficult to slow down and focus, when everything around us is so fast?

I can't be the only that feels this way. Or maybe I'm wrong and I'm just lazy and stupid. God forbid I stop occupying myself with the desire for material goods(that fuel the desire for work, or higher education to get a better paying job) long enough to realize that there's more to life than, work -> TV -> sleep -> repeat.

[100mg Methylphenidate]

I honestly believe in it. Swim has never been able to sit still, he's never been able to do one thing at a time, he always does 3+ things at once and switches around so he can still get stuff done. Because if he does try to do one thing, he usually doesn't care enough to finish doing it. Examples: spacing out through half the English session of the ACT on a full nights sleep, inability to sit in one spot in the same position for more than matter of minutes, not finishing 90% of what he starts, etc. All of his friends say he does act like he has ADHD. Swim's brother was prescribed ritalin at a younger age, which calmed him and made him more focused, etc.

When swim takes adderall, even at moderately high doses, he feels very very calm and centered and complete. He can focus and get stuff done at least as good as most people who don't appear to have the disorder. Supposedly, I don't know for sure how documented this fact is, but I've read it a lot of places, even in the high school text book here(which I'm suuuuuure is reliable), people with ADHD generally calm down and get focused when they take prescription stimulants. On the other hand, people without it get more wired up and speedy.

Yes, ADHD medicines are probably over prescribed and there are people who are just lazy, there are people who just want to rip off doctors and get the scripts to get high and to sell. But there are people who can really make use of these drugs.

Although, in order to be diagnosed with ADHD, you do have to have so many common traits for ADHD. It's not simply "I can't read a book" type of thing. The persons inability to pay attention as well as the general population has to be lowering the quality of life. If somebody spaces out easily and doesn't make rate at work, doesn't get good grades in school, leaves their house cluttered, etc., and they can't/don't know how to motivate themselves, what is it really going to hurt to let them take a safe dose of something that will improve their life if taken as prescribed? ADHD might just be something the person perceives in themselves, but it still happens one way or another and those people have just as much of a right to have that problem fixed and people who suffer from panic attacks can get their anxiety fixed with (much more addictive) valiums and xanax.

Also, people with ADHD have a higher tendency to smoke, and at a younger age. People who have been prescribed with it also are known to have a much harder time quitting too. Giving prescription stimulants to children with ADHD symptoms appears to significantly lower the rate of all drug(including nicotine and tobacco) use later in life for that group of people. There was a big debate on this a while ago somewhere around here.

I do get what you're saying about more being expected out of us. But that's just how society works and it always has. Swim says that he doesn't believe technology and our fast paced environment is making anything harder on him at all. And we were given the gift of language and math and the ability to understand stuff, so we should take advangage of it. It's not like we're stupid. Swim got really good grades in math and science throughout school. It's just people with ADHD don't generally have the willpower or ability to pay attention long enough to fully apply themselves.

Example. Swim loves math. But he doesn't do his math homework very much unless it's absolutely necessary to keep a good enough grade. Why doesn't he do something he enjoys? He really truely loved learning calculus, but he can't bring himself to sit in one spot and pay attention that long. He can't even focus in math class. He just gets it really well and finds the logic really interesting.

That's like saying somebody loves making music but they've never finished a song. There's a problem there and it's certainly not that technology is too much for the person. Or that society is moving too fast. It's just that they don't apply themselves and their interests to the fullest. Even if somebody wrote half a song, what they wrote could still sound great, it just wouldn't be completed, or at least not in a timely fashion.

Efficiency is all that businesses care about. We all have to be as efficient as possible or we're useless in society.

[SmokeRings]

SWIM is also wondering if the OP realizes that people with ADHD when prescribed pharm. stimulants CALM DOWN, as opposed to getting more hyper?! Like 100mg said, people who really have issues w/focus (kind of like they have a natural stimulant in them) take these drugs and they calm down, while those who don't have issues w/focus, sitting still, hyperactivity, the classic "ADHD" traits, will get tweaked out!

Sure, SWIM is pretty certain even someone w/ADHD who takes double, triple even quadruple their prescribed dose they too, will be fucked up, but doubts it's like someone who doesn't have the disorder.

Body chemistry is something SWIM stands firmly behind (check out other posts) regarding drugs and their affects from one person to another. How greatly the experiences can vary. Sure, ADHD, Depression, Anxiety, Bipolar disorder, all of these things are highly over diagnosed, it's just a fact of life. There are good people and there are bad people. Doctors who prescribe these meds are no different. Neither are the Pharmaceutical companies who make then. Or the Rehab Centers, Clinics, etc that make MONEY off addictions, mental disorders, etc.

SWIM has bipolar disorder. SWIMs done her research and definitely believes it. She's tried countless medications, none of which have worked for her as well as weed. For her, it works, doesn't mean it will for someone else. She's done talk therapy, been willing and ready to try anything to get her to a comfort level she's ok with. SWIM also believes she can somewhat control the levels of mania or depression through cognitive thinking (uses this for stimulant withdrawal as well), not all the time, she is human after all! Most of SWIMs friends have also agreed that even with the multitude of medications she's tried over the years, she seems most normal, most at ease, when not on any but weed!

However, she does NOT believe that a lot of people who are given disorder diagnosis necessarily have anything wrong with them, because yes, unfortunately pharmaceuticals is HUGE money. Humans are weak, easily led to believe that there MUST be something wrong, and will take the pill just to make it go away. You have a bad week, cry a lot and don't want to get out of bed...doesn't mean you are clinically depressed, but maybe it does, it's up to the individual to educate themselves, decide for themselves. Some doctors will easily prescribe an anti-depressant, some won't, just like regular folks, they have their own personal beliefs and feelings towards drugs and their varying effects.

Bottom line, SWIM thinks it's a real condition, but agrees that the over prescribing and misdiagnosis that happens all too often is sucky. Personal responsibility. It comes down to that. It's way too easy to blame Dr. Prescribes-a-Lot for becoming addicted to opiates, god forbid people start blaming themselves! The HORROR! hehe

[doggy_hat]

I understand that there are people that can be calmed down from stimulants. Maybe I worded myself wrong, but the message I was trying to spread was that our culture is too work oriented, and that people that are "ADHD" don't have a disorder as much as it is society that has a disorder.

100mg, you said SWIY experienced "spacing out through half the English session of the ACT on a full nights sleep". I'm not saying that people don't experience that, but that the problem is that the ACT test even exists at all, and that the problem isn't that people can't focus. I think it'd be abnormal(And by that I mean against nature. As in comparison to mass abnormalities, individual cases of abnormality appear normal, and individual normality appears abnormal in comparison to mass abnormality.) to be able to focus on, and go through an entire ACT without spacing out, or displaying other symptoms of ADHD.

[*ChemBabe*]

SWIM used to tease her brother growing up because he had such a hard time in school (ya SWIM was a little bitch sometimes...she knows), but it came back to bite her in the ass when she started college. HS was a breeze so the ADD didn't affect it much. In college, SWIM's gpa dropped from a 3.2 to a 1.8. This is after studying countless amount of hours and seeing no benefits from her hard work. She would feel so confident about an exam, but when she'd take the test, she suddenly couldn't remember anything she studied . Memorization was hard because it seemed as tho no matter how interested she was in that subject, it never stayed in the long term memory. She was constantly distracted and what would normally take someone a couple hrs to study, she would fill the entire day with it. Reading became impossible because she would find herself always thinking about stuff in the back of her mind without even meaning to. After awhile, trying to concentrate so much and being that stressed would give SWIM frequent migraines. She became totally depressed and was put on academic probation. She started adderall this spring.....good God, this stuff is awesome !! SWIM can finally focus and remember things for the first time in years. It calms her down and allows her to complete the task at hand.

SWIM definitely agrees that today's society is waaay to demanding. She is often teased by her roommates that she can't take a full 18 units as a chem major because she still has to study constantly, work 25+ hrs/week, and maintain a sport everyday. Ya know because they could do it all so what's her problem?...... God forbid not everyone can go at the same pace. Society loves to ridicule people if they have more of a difficult time in some areas than others. So yes, SWIM agrees that we need to learn to enjoy life a little more rather than stress so much about taking 18+ units every quarter or working ungodly amount of hours every week... we are slowing killing ourselves in the long run. Regardless, whether someone wants to refer to it as ADD/ADHD, SWIM believes there is a problem with some people in their inability to focus, and it can have a negative impact on their everyday lives.

To SMOKE RINGS... SWIM's brother has said the exact same thing regarding weed. He has ADD, a learning disability, and possibly bipolar disorder. His psychiatrist told him that if thats what works for him, then who is he to tell him to stop. SWIM doesn't like to smoke, but she only now realized how mentally beneficial it can be to many people. While most people claim that weed makes them paranoid, SWIM's brother says it has the opposite effect on him. Does SWIY agree? She is just curious since she doesn't experience this effect with it. Knowing that it helps her brother that much, she finds herself to be more understanding as to why he insists on smoking breakfast, lunch, and dinner .

[saloufas]

you realise that with a.d.h.d. even doing something entertaining (watching movies or playing games or even being out with others) makes you bored VERY fast right? its not only on intellectual stuff like reading and writing.

[100mg Methylphenidate]

Swim has that problem too. Swim does get very bored watching TV, even shows he likes, and he hates playing video games for very long. Which resulted in him selling his 360 a month after he got one.

[Junket]

im with the op..

didnt read the rest of the thread but i believe placebos have a good effect in a lot of shit. give a hyper kid a sugar pill that "makes him sleep" and he'll be napping in the corner in no time lol

[Lady Codone]

It's definitely an over-diagnosed disorder. I believe it exists, but do not agree with putting children on powerful stimulants to "control" the disorder.

ADHD is one of 5 disorders on the autism spectrum--others include classic autism, Asperger's Syndrome, Rett's Disease, and PDD-NOS. All of these conditions share symptoms and can be difficult (if not impossible) to distinguish from one another. While the easy solution is to medicate these kids, there are actually many other ways to go about treating ADHD. Removing refined sugar, food allergens, certain food coloring/preservatives, and going gluten- or casein-free have proven successful for scores of people. Kids with ADHD and other autism spectrum disorders often have abnormally high heavy metal burdens in their bodies as well, with the most common offenders being mercury, lead, and arsenic--all of which can cause hyperactivity, anxiety, lowered IQ, and other mental problems typical of ASDs.

So my opinion is that ADHD does exist and, like other ASDs is a growing epidemic, but the current treatment model is unacceptable for about 97% of cases, if not all. Anyone who tries to cover up the symptoms of a disorder without looking for the underlying cause is a negligent parent, doctor, teacher, or guardian and should be held accountable, as people who take stimulants as kids have an increased rate of drug addiction as adults, according to some studies. Not to mention all the health risks associated with stimulant use and the fact that these drugs do nothing to resolve the cause behind the disorder.

[100mg Methylphenidate]

No. Kids who take stimulants as kids who show signs of ADHD have a much lower rate of drug use. People diagnosed with ADHD are also way more likely to start smoking at a younger age, and only about half as many people who smoke and have ADHD quit in their lifetime, compared to people who don't smoke.

These medications aren't THAT addictive (physically. And the psychological tolerance builds extremely fast. Swim only takes them on ocassion now due to a lack of euphoria from repeated use) and generally aren't abused by young kids whos parents are giving them the medication. By the time these kids have been taking the medication for years, they don't get much if any euphoria out of it. Most of the people swim knows who were prescribed it as a young child, either quit taking it or sell their prescription. Both by choice.

[Blueheaven]

People don't really care about what someone believes in. It's just another opinion. The big people are the ones who have the facts and that is doctors.

Not like it's going to change.

[Sarko]

Problem with ADHD is that it is used as a bit of an umbrella term. The evidence certainly suggests that it exists and lies at the lower end of the empathy continuum along with Autism and Asperger's. Research has certainly indicated this to be the case.

If you choose to ignore decades of scientific research then so be it. I'm just saying that the scientific evidence is there.

[lineartransform]

The major issue is that defining ADHD as Sarko did is 100% correct, however due to profitability of these drugs and parental hand-wringing, it is a horribly overdiagnosed condition.

Do I believe that amphetamines can benefit those "at the lower end of the empathy continuum"? (I like that phrase).

Yes.

Do I think that the majority of people who identify themselves as ADHD actually qualify under this description?

Of course not.

The standard reply of "well, the drugs helped me work" is f*cking ridiculous in my book. They're amphetamines! They help everyone work! The "calm" is just standard stimulant euphoria...

[OsCarwild]

people that are "ADHD" don't have a disorder as much as it is society that has a disorder.

I wouldn't necessarily say this means society has a disorder. I would say it means society is progressing. Sure back in the days of cave men they didn't need A.D.D. medicine because there was nothing to get ADD over. Now that society has progressed to where we have books and movies and such i think it is making a long time problem finally show. Society doesn't have a disorder. Society has evolved since the stone age.

[100mg Methylphenidate]

You people should stop bitching and let these wonderful things keep being prescribed how they are. If not more often. XD

[umbra1010]

I think that adhd is real, but the number of people diagnosed is a joke. What can you expect to have children spend 5 and a half hours in class and only have a half hour to go outside and play? Now they are trying to get rid of recess so kids can "learn" more even though that will only give more problems. Those who do have should have the appropriate medication, but we shouldn't just give a kid drugs just because he/she isn't paying attention 100% of the time.

[Blueheaven]

The ones who think "Adhd" isn't real, are mostly the ones who don't have it.

Think of it like this, we are all different, but if swiy can't help something, its a problem and "Adhd" is a problem just not a big one.

[OsCarwild]

I will say that i do agree it is over diagnosed, and that many people who are currently prescribed ADD medicine probably don't need it, but for the ones who do it certainly is a real disorder.

Reputation Comments on this post:

well said!

[SmokeRings]

SWIM would like to add that ADHD is not the only thing over diagnosed. There are huge issues with ALL prescription drugs. Is it because ADHD is treated w/a stimulant rather than a downer like benzo's or opiates the problem?
We are a society of over indulgance, with food, alcohol, money and pills...supply and demand.
Of course it's over prescribed, just as Xanax and Valium and Oxy and, and, and...

[lineartransform]

I would say my concern is that it is primarily children who are diagnosed, rather than the mainly adult market for other pharms.

These are developing brains - there is no reason to meddle with them, producing possible long term issues, simply to get a better letter grade in a subject no one cares about in 6 months.

[100mg Methylphenidate]

The kids they're giving those prescriptions to are getting them because their schoolwork is suffering half the time. That's the prime time to give them those medications. Which have also shown to decrease the chances they'll use other drugs later in life. There is no compelling evidence we're totally destroying these kids brains that I'm aware of. The only thing to watch out for really is that these kids get their medication as prescribed, and they don't have heart problems. These medications have been used for years, if people were developing long term issues because of them, I think it'd be widely known by now.

[lineartransform]

Their schoolwork is suffering because the school system is poorly set up and the teachers are largely not qualified. It's fucking boring for anyone, not just these "ADHD" kids. That's the real reason.

Anyone can be a superstar academically if they're hopped up on amphetamines. The point is, why? The point of lower education is to learn methods to acquire and evaluate information (which amphetamines help very little with as it is a "meta" brain skill rather than a rote skill) rather than memorize and recreate (which amphetamines are very good at).

Of course amphetamines help you with school work. They help quite a bit. But the point is that the school work is largely irrelevant and does not lead to personal growth and development. It's keeping score for a game that doesn't matter once you hit real life.

Real skills would be teaching mindfulness and the ability to monitor the self and your emotions - but that is hard, and requires actual involvement with kids.

ADHD medications are popular because they do not require excessive effort or involvement from the parents, the teachers, or the student. They just make the school system hum well. The issue is whether there's even a point to having this system run like this.

[100mg Methylphenidate]

I agree that the school system sucks. American schools also focus too much on discipline for stupid things, such as quietly using a cell phone in class, or not turning in homework. But if a student doesn't want to learn, they don't want to learn and there's no point in forcing them. And there's no point in punishing them if they aren't keeping other students from learning(ie using a cell phone in class).

It's not like school coordinates that much with real life. Okay, if I use my cell phone in class, that doesn't mean I'll use it at work where I can get fired. Teachers always seem to think they're teaching you these life lessons, which they aren't.

I'm just saying that no matter what we actually get out of school, good grades are at least half of what colleges care about(which I also think making college such a major 'requirement' in life is stupid). But I'm one of those people who doesn't care about changing stuff anymore, because I'm going to have to deal with it for most, if not my whole life anyway.

[lineartransform]

You're absolutely correct - but the only upside is that a bright kid can "hack" the school system if you will, and get good enough marks one way or another to get to university where things can become a lot more interesting. Like it or not, our society demands certain secret handshakes to get into certain secret clubs.

My major concern is that the ability to direct your attention is a skill like any other. Some people are very bad at it. But instead of teaching methods of how to direct attention and how to realize when you are actively not directing attention at all, we pop a magic pill that drastically increases your skill at directing attention.

It's like if we gave steroids to kids who are bad at sports - yes, they're going to get good, but what is the point? Major issues can arise when these chemical crutches are taken away - and what's the alternative, lifetime medication?

It's more reflective of our societies short term attitudes and priorities. I can bitch, but I don't see it changing drastically any time soon.

[SmokeRings]

Any and everything we put into our bodies, no matter when/where/how/what, can adversely affect us. No matter what we do or take, our bodies will do with those substances how they wish, everyone's chemistry is different, in SWIMs opinion.

SWIM totally thinks most kids are just being kids, not ADHD, kids are hyper, it's up to the parents to make the right decision. Most parents don't, most parents just give them the drugs so they don't have to deal. SWIM doesn't agree w/the mentality, it's just a fact of life unforunately.

Gotta take a test to drive a car, but anyone w/a working uterus and a sperminated egg can have kids. Scary, but true. It's like the 50 year old man who drops dead of a heart attack, he eats healthy, works out 4 times a week, non-smoker, non-drug user. When our times up, it's up.

If a kid has crappy parents who feed them stims w/out second opinions, etc, nothing he/she can do about it until they are 18 and grown. Unfortunate, but true.
SWIM sounds a bit jaded and unemotional over it, because unfortunately, it's just how society is, and she doesn't see it changing. Her contribution is to not have kids!