Opinions - What is your favorite fentanyl analog ???

[cadillac555]

So it seems, that Fentanyl and its cousins are becoming more commonplace these days. What SWIM wants to know is : What is your favorite Fentanyl analog and why ???

Please cast your vote and list why you chose that particular analog.

Examples : Most euphoric, quick onset, longest lasting, least side effects, etc.

It will be very interesting to see what everyone comes up with

[cadillac555]

Are there any other recreational analogs that SWIM might have missed for the poll ?? Please let SWIM know

[returntozero]

chances are most average swims havent gotten their hands on enough of each substance to give an accurate answer

seems unlikely that too many swims could take enough of each of those fairly obscure chemicals to really decide which one is best

[Herbal Healer 019]

Fentanyl itself is hard enough to get 4 SWIM, but finding one of these exotic fentanyl analogues would most likely require knowing a very open minded chemest or being 1 him or herself..but this is wishfull thinking

[Phentasies]

Originally Posted by cadillac555

So it seems, that Fentanyl and its cousins are becoming more commonplace these days. What SWIM wants to know is : What is your favorite Fentanyl analog and why ???

Please cast your vote and list why you chose that particular analog.

Examples : Most euphoric, quick onset, longest lasting, least side effects, etc.

It will be very interesting to see what everyone comes up with

You forgot one;




NOTE: The yellow circle is the rim of a yellow vial and the 2OH4MeF is actually ever so slightly off white (tinge of gray in it) with an oyster/soya-sauce kinda smell (hard to explain, very distinct unique smell). It appears like yellow cheese in photo because of the yellow vial color and the yellow light source being used.


In terms of differences between analogs, its negligible in regards to euphoria - they all produce the same. What does differ is the rapid onset which becomes more rapid with the more powerful the derivative is (dose-wise) simply because less and less molecules need to actually reach their targets to elicit a full effect. Pharaohfentanyl and others come on very suddenly even when snorting it as a puddle of solution off a non-porous surface it only takes about 30 seconds to begin feeling the effects and by about 60-90 seconds nauseau will hit the newbies.

When SMOKED it is as instant as DMT - meaning if your an opiate naive user before you can even exhale your first puff you will be instantaneously hit with a wall of intense nauseau and a very "stoned" like high.

When IV'd, most are not even able to remove their needle in time before they are swept off their feet and totally fucked up. SWIM walked in on a guy standing semi-asleep with headdown and the needle hanging out his arm like a fish out of water.


The other thing that changes between analogs is duration of action. This is for IV/Insufflating/Smoking routes (not oral/sublingual/rectal); Remifentanyl I recall is like 10-20 minutes, Fentanyl and Carfentanyl about 60 minutes, Pharaohfentanyl and Ohmefentanyl about 90 minutes, and then theres Lofentanyl which is somewhere between 24-48 HOURS in duration. So they definetly span the spectrum in that regards.

One of the nice things about these 4-anilidopiperidines is that they have a very predictable pattern of SAR activity in most regards although there are some unexpected anamolies like Lofentanyl was. One can literally design a fentanyl derivative on paper to a given potency and duration and end up just 5-10% margin of error for that potency/duration when they actually ingest it.



Another interesting thing to note about the pharmacology of fentanyl and likely its major derivatives is that aside from being ultra potent and selective Mu receptor agonists, they are also oddly 5HT1A serotonin agonists - A receptor which has been implicated in sleep and dreaming. Perhaps this explains the absolute soul shudderingly bizarre, traumatizing and alien-emotioned dreams EVERY-single-night that SWIM had during fentanyl addiction. Absolutely incredibly vivid and as dementedly fucked up as imagineable evoking feelings youve never felt before and will never feel again and almost always alienized derivatives of the feeling of absolute despair.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Very informative, valuable addition to D-F!
	An excellent contribution which combines a broad range of information with personal experience

[Alfa]

How would you compare the addictive nature of these analogs?

[Phentasies]

Originally Posted by Alfa

How would you compare the addictive nature of these analogs?

Off the chart. SWIM had solid experience with Heroin, Morphine, Oxycodone, Codeine and Opium. Yet never had an opiate addiction SWIM couldnt stop after a couple weeks, until fentanyl.

SWIMs never gotten "euphoria" from fentanyls, just the most unbelievably immense feeling of absolute content and peace and incredible distortion of time that an entire day feels like 1 hour and a feeling of emotional and physical invincibility. Playing paintball in that state makes for some epic games and no fear of the pain. It feels like the pressure within your inner ear changes upon intoxication and sounds are muffled as though you had earmuffs on, yet you have no problem hearing what people say. When you smoke/IV it and take a huge hit you will get an instant ringer in the ears for a few minutes. If your a novice, you spew projectile vomit over 6 feet the moment you hit it. SWIMs first time was smoking a cigarette that had been injected with PHF/water solution and allowed to dry, the second the cherry hit the "sweet spot" the entire world fell to its side and invisible tsunami swells of intestinal dispel wrived inside and nauseau ravaged SWIM in an instant and as SWIM was exhaling blew massive chunks as the world started spinning circles around SWIMs dome.


Fentanyls are in SWIMs opinion the most addictive drug, period. Somesay Ketobemidone is most addictive - never tried it so couldnt say, but fentanyls certain would take the cake. After fentanyl addiction, SWIM couldnt "get off" on ANY other opiate, OC, Morphine and even Heroin felt like nothing, SWIM had no desire to use them for more than a couple days to ease WD pains. Still dreams everyhour of everyday to shove just 1 last load down his nose.

These are the elements SWIM found make fentanyls so uniquely addictive;

1) With most, you must redose within 1-2 hours (insufflation - half that if IV/smoking). This gives an opiate a cocaine-like behavioral re-dosing pattern where you redose 15-20 times everyday and you become so addicted to the pattern/habit/process of redosing yourself so often that in itself becomes burned like brimstone into your dome. Ask a heroin junkie how much harder his habit would be to quit if he was going through the motions to slap an IV in his arm every 15 minutes

2) Again, the short duration means that every 2 hours you must re-dose or youll be in withdrawals (yes just 2 hours after a dose u RAPIDLY start to enter WD's over just a 5 minute period from feeling fine to feeling shit). What is the BEST part of opiate use to 99% of addicts? The "rush" of hitting that dose, problem with most op's is that it takes 12 hours after a dose to SLOWLY enter a state of WD so you only redose 2-3x a day. The more often you have to re-dose the more often you get to feel that rush. By hour 4-5 with no fentanyl you will be in a WD as intense as where youd be by hour 36-48 with no heroin. SWIM became incredibly addicted to the process of letting SWIMself not take a dose for 2-4 hours to purposefully put SWIMself into heavy WD's in a short time and then shove a massive dose up the nose and feel your wings grow like gods forsaken angel.

3) Fentanyls are very rapid onset, very hard hitting, and very rapid to exit. Their high itself is addictive. Its NOT euphoric, just heavenly tranquil bliss. Invincibility, a feeling of godliness.

4) Fentanyls have the most intense fawkin withdrawals it is like nothing SWIM had ever experienced with anyother opiate. Even after just 24 hours of non-stop use very discomfortable WD's can be felt and will last about 12 hours (its like a hangover, which SWIM never experienced off other opiates). Especially nasty prickle-skin where every fabric you touch including your clothes and bedsheets feel like brillo pads and prickles against your skin. That alone is enough to get many hooked just to run from the WD's because they are horrendous, but once you run for weeks/months you've surely done it and will experience a hell unlike nothing else you've known in terms of the intensity of the physical symptoms. Generally they only last 3 days in light/moderate instances of addiction/use, but it is like compressing the intensity of 2 weeks of methadone withdrawals and forcing it into a 3 day period - the intensity is exactly that; intense.

Over SWIMs 3 year on/off (95% of time ON) addiction SWIM was able to develop the ultimate methods of making even the most severe fentanyl withdrawals bearable by weening from fentanyl to heroin then to oxycodone then to morphine then to codeine, 3-days use for each. Taking a small dose of cocaine upon waking up for the first 3 mornings and working out at the gym while intoxicated to recover muscle energy/strength. Seroquel/benzos combined with cyclobenzaprine at night for sleep. Lots of vitamins/minerals and those Ensure MRP shakes cause its hard to eat solid foods. Then throw in some weed when you reach the Morphine/Codeine stage because you'll start to get bored. Figure out some hobbies that involve physical activity and focus on those.

It appears that because fentanyls are fully synthetic and therefore not structurally related to natural/semi-synthetic opiates like codeine/morphine/heroin/oxy that there is minimal cross dependency from SWIMs experience. Meaning when WDing from fentanyls SWIY can consume heroin/morphine and still keep withdrawing from the fentanyl. No quantity of other opiate can cessate the WD in the first 2-3 days that SWIM was able to achieve, SWIM once snorted 160mg of Oxycodone and felt totally messed up in the head yet still felt most of the fentanyl withdrawal physically.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Very descriptive and informative insight about the experience phentanyl addiction. This deserves to be reported in a thr...
	Most interesting.
	Outstanding insight and detail.

[Matt The Funk]

Originally Posted by Phentasies

These are the elements SWIM found make fentanyls so uniquely addictive;

1) With most, you must redose within 1-2 hours (insufflation - half that if IV/smoking). This gives an opiate a cocaine-like behavioral re-dosing pattern where you redose 15-20 times everyday and you become so addicted to the pattern/habit/process of redosing yourself so often that in itself becomes burned like brimstone into your dome. Ask a heroin junkie how much harder his habit would be to quit if he was going through the motions to slap an IV in his arm every 15 minutes

2) Again, the short duration means that every 2 hours you must re-dose or youll be in withdrawals (yes just 2 hours after a dose u RAPIDLY start to enter WD's over just a 5 minute period from feeling fine to feeling shit). What is the BEST part of opiate use to 99% of addicts? The "rush" of hitting that dose, problem with most op's is that it takes 12 hours after a dose to SLOWLY enter a state of WD so you only redose 2-3x a day. The more often you have to re-dose the more often you get to feel that rush. By hour 4-5 with no fentanyl you will be in a WD as intense as where youd be by hour 36-48 with no heroin. SWIM became incredibly addicted to the process of letting SWIMself not take a dose for 2-4 hours to purposefully put SWIMself into heavy WD's in a short time and then shove a massive dose up the nose and feel your wings grow like gods forsaken angel.

3) Fentanyls are very rapid onset, very hard hitting, and very rapid to exit. Their high itself is addictive. Its NOT euphoric, just heavenly tranquil bliss. Invincibility, a feeling of godliness.

4) Fentanyls have the most intense fawkin withdrawals it is like nothing SWIM had ever experienced with anyother opiate. Even after just 24 hours of non-stop use very discomfortable WD's can be felt and will last about 12 hours (its like a hangover, which SWIM never experienced off other opiates). Especially nasty prickle-skin where every fabric you touch including your clothes and bedsheets feel like brillo pads and prickles against your skin. That alone is enough to get many hooked just to run from the WD's because they are horrendous, but once you run for weeks/months you've surely done it and will experience a hell unlike nothing else you've known in terms of the intensity of the physical symptoms. Generally they only last 3 days in light/moderate instances of addiction/use, but it is like compressing the intensity of 2 weeks of methadone withdrawals and forcing it into a 3 day period - the intensity is exactly that; intense.

Over SWIMs 3 year on/off (95% of time ON) addiction SWIM was able to develop the ultimate methods of making even the most severe fentanyl withdrawals bearable by weening from fentanyl to heroin then to oxycodone then to morphine then to codeine, 3-days use for each. Taking a small dose of cocaine upon waking up for the first 3 mornings and working out at the gym while intoxicated to recover muscle energy/strength. Seroquel/benzos combined with cyclobenzaprine at night for sleep. Lots of vitamins/minerals and those Ensure MRP shakes cause its hard to eat solid foods. Then throw in some weed when you reach the Morphine/Codeine stage because you'll start to get bored. Figure out some hobbies that involve physical activity and focus on those.

It appears that because fentanyls are fully synthetic and therefore not structurally related to natural/semi-synthetic opiates like codeine/morphine/heroin/oxy that there is minimal cross dependency from SWIMs experience. Meaning when WDing from fentanyls SWIY can consume heroin/morphine and still keep withdrawing from the fentanyl. No quantity of other opiate can cessate the WD in the first 2-3 days that SWIM was able to achieve, SWIM once snorted 160mg of Oxycodone and felt totally messed up in the head yet still felt most of the fentanyl withdrawal physically.

SWIM has to say SWIY is spot on with fentanyl. Good advice for the WD's too, horrible shit. SWIM only has experience with Fentanyl so he picked that, but would love to have a chance to sample all it's anolouges. Fentanyl does seem to lack a euphoria, but the way it makes SWIM feel in it's own gives him a euphoria.

Also does SWIM have experience with extremely powerful and intense hallucinations from Fentanyl? He noticed above SWIY mentioned they have an affinity for the 5HTA-1 receptors and SWIM had a few times experienced pretty powerful hallucinations from Fent.

[Phentasies]

Originally Posted by Matt The Funk

Also does SWIM have experience with extremely powerful and intense hallucinations from Fentanyl? He noticed above SWIY mentioned they have an affinity for the 5HTA-1 receptors and SWIM had a few times experienced pretty powerful hallucinations from Fent.

Nope, no hallucinations other than the odd "twitch" of something moving in peripheral vision but never anything there.

But SWIM had exquisitely vivid dreams absolutely every night, dreams that were like no dreams SWIMs ever had before or since. It started to get scarry knowing as you lay in bed everynight that you 100% ARE going to have a HORRIFYING nightmare.

It wasnt so much what the dreams were about, as it was these emotions that SWIM would feel inside the dream. There was a constant ominous undertone to them and they felt alien, as though SWIM had been plugged into the emotions of an alien being on the other side of the universe. Theres no proper way to describe them they were just traumatizing, literally traumatized SWIM.

For example SWIM remembers one of the first dreams SWIM had when began using Fentanyl, it was alot like the Matrix in that reality was a computer program and SWIM accidently awoke from it and realized that SWIM was inside a city floating inside a bubble outside earths atmosphere in space and earth was a giant lifeless desert before SWIMs eyes and SWIM remembers screaming SWIM couldnt live knowing that this was what reality was and that reality wasnt real at all and all the things SWIM loved and cherished in the world were fake and all the memories and moments lived were fake and the most overwhelming alienized emotion of pit of your soul horrendeous despair felt like a thousand tons pinned ontop SWIMs heart and when SWIM wokeup he was soaked in tears and had been crying while dreaming which SWIM has never ever even heard of happening let alone had happen before.

Unbelievably real and INTENSE dreams, SWIM will never be able to get over the things that happened and were felt in those hundreds upon hundreds of dreams that SWIM can remember the finest details about for so so many of them.


I know dopamine plays a role in dreaming as high dopamine levels cause excess dreaming and extremely VIVID dreams and Mu agonists cause dopamine release by inhibiting GABA transmission. But SWIM still feels the 5HT1A agonism is in someway impacting these dreams because dopamine isnt very responsible towards emotions, thats more a serotogenic action, and thats whats most apparent in these dreams - indescribeable emotions that SWIM best describes as emotions man was never meant to feel - they really are that terrifying.

[Matt The Funk]

Originally Posted by Phentasies

Nope, no hallucinations other than the odd "twitch" of something moving in peripheral vision but never anything there.

But SWIM had exquisitely vivid dreams absolutely every night, dreams that were like no dreams SWIMs ever had before or since. It started to get scarry knowing as you lay in bed everynight that you 100% ARE going to have a HORRIFYING nightmare.

It wasnt so much what the dreams were about, as it was these emotions that SWIM would feel inside the dream. There was a constant ominous undertone to them and they felt alien, as though SWIM had been plugged into the emotions of an alien being on the other side of the universe. Theres no proper way to describe them they were just traumatizing, literally traumatized SWIM.

For example SWIM remembers one of the first dreams SWIM had when began using Fentanyl, it was alot like the Matrix in that reality was a computer program and SWIM accidently awoke from it and realized that SWIM was inside a city floating inside a bubble outside earths atmosphere in space and earth was a giant lifeless desert before SWIMs eyes and SWIM remembers screaming SWIM couldnt live knowing that this was what reality was and that reality wasnt real at all and all the things SWIM loved and cherished in the world were fake and all the memories and moments lived were fake and the most overwhelming alienized emotion of pit of your soul horrendeous despair felt like a thousand tons pinned ontop SWIMs heart and when SWIM wokeup he was soaked in tears and had been crying while dreaming which SWIM has never ever even heard of happening let alone had happen before.

Unbelievably real and INTENSE dreams, SWIM will never be able to get over the things that happened and were felt in those hundreds upon hundreds of dreams that SWIM can remember the finest details about for so so many of them.


I know dopamine plays a role in dreaming as high dopamine levels cause excess dreaming and extremely VIVID dreams and Mu agonists cause dopamine release by inhibiting GABA transmission. But SWIM still feels the 5HT1A agonism is in someway impacting these dreams because dopamine isnt very responsible towards emotions, thats more a serotogenic action, and thats whats most apparent in these dreams - indescribeable emotions that SWIM best describes as emotions man was never meant to feel - they really are that terrifying.

Well SWIM meant more hallucinations in a powerful nod/sleeping state as he could have some very intense vivid daydreams/hallucinations from fent. He remembers when he was doing Fent a decent amount his dreams were also intense in the same manner, but SWIM can't comment on the emotion, since SWIM has on/off problems with his dreams anyways. SWIM thinks it might be possible the nightmares/dreams with an underlying theme of negativity could be from withdrawal? SWIM knows the first thing he did was always dose up with sa little Fent before he started ANYTHING, and then he could actually start his day and dose properly etc, but also ended everynight with a dose, but that then leaves however many hrs he could manage to sleep without his dose, and he can see where withdrawals might be influencing the dreams.