Health - Immune to comedowns?

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

Physiological background info: swim is very physically fit and his diet is not bad but not great. Anyway, swim doesn't get comedowns or after effects from any of these drugs he has tried and he is wondering if there are some people who just don't really get comedowns? If so, would this be due to lifestyle (such as health maintenance) or just individual physiological particulars? Any other swimmers out there with similar experiences?

MDMA: Once, swim has rolled on two consecutive night, then had a 1 day break and then rolled the following night (2/3 pills each night) and still had no comedown- he felt 100% normal just a bit tired. Another time, swim took 750mgs of MDMA which set him on fire but he still had no after effects apart from tiredness.

Alcohol: Swim doesn't drink much, but when he does he never has a hangover. Once he got totally wasted, was sick everywhere, passed out for a bit, woke up and walked home. The next morning, swim felt 100% normal apart from being sick a few times and even then he didn't feel nauseous- he just thought he needed to be sick as if it were knowledge rather than a feeling...

Meth: Swim took 50-75mg of meth once (swim only took it once) and had a cool time but experienced what he guesses was a light comedown consisting of generally feeling slightly feverish, uncomfortable, tired, too hot if hot and too cold if cold but once swim got home an hour later he went straight to sleep so it wasn't that bad.

Cocaine: swim has only taken a few times in low doses, but he didn't feel any after effects except slight tiredness.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thank you for making an interesting topic

[Jasim]

Many of the ill after-effects of drug taking can be attributed to 2 things: Contaminants in the drug or toxic metabolites.

Maybe swiy just got some pure stuff and swiy has a great liver and kidneys.

Additionally, the activity of metabolic enzymes has a large genetic component. As a relative example, it is known that some Asian groups carry a gene for a deficient acetalaldehyde dehydrogenase, an enzyme that clears the toxic metabolite of alcohol from the body. People with this gene have a very bad reaction to alcohol and experience the worst of hangovers. It's also called flushing syndrome. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction

In contrast to the given example, maybe swiy just has great genes.

[porchy]

SWIM was exactly the same for years. He could take any number of drugs and still feel dady the next day, maybe slightly slow if opiates or benzos were used but no feeling crappy or ill. Then gradually he started to develop comedowns/hangovers. Alcohol isn't too bad at all but much worse than a few years ago.

[Riverhead]

SWIM knows exactly what SWIY means. SWIM also never experiences comedowns. SWIM takes cocaine about 4 or 5 times a week and has never had any of the negative effects SWIM's friends always report. Even with rather large quantities of amphetamines, SWIM feels just fine the day after.

Another thing SWIM noticed is that he doesn't really seem to build up a tolerance. SWIM has been using the same quantities for let's say 5 years now and he never has to take more than the initial dosage, while SWIM's friends seem to need more and more over the years to get the same effect.

SWIM also thought about making a thread like this to see if other people have the same benefit. But SWIM never did it because he didn't want to make other people jealous.

SWIM's physiological background info: gets blood tested rather frequently and he's healthy.

One thing that is 'not normal' is that SWIM can sleep whenever he wants, even after doing coke or amphetamines for that matter. SWIM thinks he just sleeps it off.

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

Originally Posted by Jasim

Maybe swiy just got some pure stuff and swiy has a great liver and kidneys.
In contrast to the given example, maybe swiy just has great genes.

In the MDMA and cocaine examples, swim mostly got them from a some guy selling them at a rave so purity being the reason is unlikely, but they compared moderately well to other times when he used a trusted dealer. If it is swim's genes, he guesses it won't matter if he becomes a bit less healthy. The reason swim is concerned is that soon he won't have any time for exercising or taking care with his diet but still plans to use stimulants a lot.

Originally Posted by Riverhead

Another thing SWIM noticed is that he doesn't really seem to build up a tolerance. SWIM has been using the same quantities for let's say 5 years now and he never has to take more than the initial dosage, while SWIM's friends seem to need more and more over the years to get the same effect.
One thing that is 'not normal' is that SWIM can sleep whenever he wants, even after doing coke or amphetamines for that matter. SWIM thinks he just sleeps it off.

That's interesting: swim doesn't seem to build up tolerance either although his natural tolerance for stimulants is quite high, a normal MDMA dose for him is 200mg, he doesn't feel much under that. (weight 75kg height 6,2ft - its not due to his weight). Swim's metabolism is very fast to the extent that he is on the borderline for corrective thyroid gland therapy/surgery.. don't know if that has anything to do with it.

With regard to sleeping, Swim is the opposite of swiy... he has difficulty getting to sleep unless he is extremely tired. It would be interesting to find weird characteristics that comedown resistant people share but i guess thats not one of them. At least, not for swim and swiy =)

[Jasim]

If swiy is eating right and in good health, then that could also be a contributing factor. Ensuring that the body is properly hydrated and has adequate nutrition could facilitate recovery. It could also be some contributing psychological factors. Maybe swiy just doesn't notice ill-effects so much.

It's hard to say.

[HorseBucket]

Some people comedown harder than others. Swim doesn't get hangovers from anything except alcohol, ritalin and meth but some of swims friends feel like shit after MDMA sessions, opiate binges and other drugs.

[Matthijs85]

For SWIM, being tired and slow are also the main part of the hangover, although high doses of MDMA or speed can make SWIM be a little bit quicker irritated and not feeling like doing anything

[Yetti]

SWIM has heard that with alcohol, a lot of the hangover can be attributed to dehydration.

SWIM can say, that in his experience, drinking at least 50% of his weight in ounces of water (260 lbs / 2 = 130 ounces of water) for a day or two before he gets wasted really helps him feel better the next day.

SWIM can not say about the come down of other drugs as it's just been so long.

[chibi curmudgeon]

My roommate also doesn't get comedowns, not from coke, meth, Adderall, MDMA, anything. Hangovers from really heinous alcohol combinations without staying hydrated, but that's it.

I think it's a slow metabolism, maybe eliminating the drugs gradually. Maybe her liver somehow "knows" not to get rid of drugs like that fast enough to have adverse effects...?

[nate81]

I don't understand, the post refers to some after affects for the subject but then says "immune". I'm just saying if the subject got tired, uncomfortable, and feverish then that sounds like a comedown. Most users don't have soul-crushing comedowns and this subjects' fitness probably buffers the comedowns a bit.

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

Originally Posted by nate81

I don't understand, the post refers to some after affects for the subject but then says "immune". I'm just saying if the subject got tired, uncomfortable, and feverish then that sounds like a comedown. Most users don't have soul-crushing comedowns and this subjects' fitness probably buffers the comedowns a bit.

Ok, perhaps the terminology is not ideal but I wanted something nice and snappy for the thread title . Anyway, from a high dose of meth it's not surprising... Perhaps "resistant to comedowns" would be a better word. Anyway, it would be really interesting to hear about comedown resistant people's physiological particulars including fitness level, dieting, metabolism type, natural tolerance level and stuff like that, whatever you feel makes you special! It would be really interesting to find correlative features.

[Riverhead]

SWIM's 178 cm, weighs 80 kilos.
Black hair, green eyes, caucasian
Colourblind, good eyesight
SWIM sleep 8 hours straight no matter what, SWIM does take zolpidem each night, but doesn't really need it to sleep.
SWIM's IQ is 147
SWIM doesn't have a specific diet, doesn't like fish or vegetables
SWIM's on SSRI's and anti-psychotics, still the same dosage as 5 years ago
SWIM takes benzo's about 5 times a week, still the same dosage as 5 years ago
SWIM normally has a girlfriend, still has a very active sex life
SWIM doesn't smoke
SWIM is introvert
SWIM got his blood tested about a month ago and it was all good
SWIM hates cops

SWIM is really horny right now and is going offline for a while....

edit: back

SWIM likes hugs and kisses

[Capita]

Swim as well is very resistant to any kind of comedowns... only if swim had really rough night with alcohol as in yacking by the end of the night will he get a hangover.. even then that's rare.... as pointed out before swim as well has a pretty high tolerance to stimulants... swim always finds him self always needing a little more blow than any one else to feel any thing... When takeing e there have been multiple times a pill will get all of swims friends rolling face while swim just feels a little speedy... and when swim started adderall he seemed to jump right up to 30 mg with no problems and can prob take over 150mg at a time now with no problems. Swim tried to eat well and excersies when he can (2 times a week at the gym at least)

[Dickon]

So, what have been established so far as putative contributory factors? Metabolism (possibly influenced by genetics, especially production levels of / absence of certain enzymes), diet and general levels of health. I have to say that if someone is on a lot of benzos and possibly antidepressants they might not feel come-downs from stimulants so much. I've heard it said that not getting hangovers is related to an alcohol metabolism that increases the risk of alcoholism developing, although this could be an old-wives tale. Expectation and psychology probably play a big part too. If you believe "I'm the sort of person who doesn't get comedowns" perhaps you won't get them so badly.

However, all that being said and done, there has only been oblique reference to what I think is the main contributory factor: youth. I'm not saying that youth guarantees a comedown free existence, but I think comedowns get worse with age. My cat found this especially true with crack, and that's helped cat stay away from it.

For most downers, in the broader sense, i.e. alcohol, opiates and benzos, frequent use is a good way to replace comedowns with addiction. This is not the path to avoiding comedowns I'd recommend!

Dickon

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good analysis and discussion directing.
	Well thought out post. Thanks for your thoughts.

[MarkyMayhem]

Originally Posted by Dickon

However, all that being said and done, there has only been oblique reference to what I think is the main contributory factor: youth. I'm not saying that youth guarantees a comedown free existence, but I think comedowns get worse with age. My cat found this especially true with crack, and that's helped cat stay away from it.


Dickon

SWIM things SWIY've hit the nail pretty much square on the head!
Youth, and to some extent, length of time/number of times Person X has used/been using said substance seem to play in to the comedown effect more so than anything else.

SWIM used to be able, when first using coke, and IV'ing coke, to get totally twisted and just feel a bit jumpy when it ran out, which gradually progressed in to hellacious comedowns from IV coke, to needing IV opiates to avoid going insane during comedown to the point where if SWIM even snorts a bump of blow it's skip the high, instant comedown....

SWIM has a family history of alcoholism. SWIM used to be able to drink coffee cups of vodka like water, bottles of wine in seconds etc, get plowed and have little to no hangover. Now sometimes SWIM will get pretty buzzed [say, just a bit to much to drive] and wake up projectile vomiting in the night at times...

Ohhh and stims... SWIM could/would stay up for several days on pharm amps, and just sleep for 12-18 hours and be at 100%...
A recent experience with ~ 50 mgs dextroamphetamine in an evening [concurent with a gig playing drums for several hours] left SWIM in major body pain and absolutely dragging ASS for 2 days...

SWIM is just closer to 30 than 20... And has been indulging [and overindulging when much younger] for 10+ years.

It just gets worse, fellas...

-m

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good input, especially about the longer you use a drug the worse the comedowns get.