swims read at different places online that i.v'ing ambien(zolpidem) can be done, swim has a few questions for safety sake = is ambien(zolpidem) water soluble enough to shoot? any speacil precedures that needs to be done to prep the pill for injection, or just crush in to a fine powder and put it in the spoon and cook?
I'm not going to bother looking up the chemical to see if it would be something safe to inject because basically there are very few pills made that can be safely injected. You have to worry not just about the active ingredient, but the binders and fillers and other additives which vary from brand to brand. Short answer I would be willing to say with 99% certainty that it cannot be safely injected by most people. And if there was a way, it would take a lot of work... Pills just aren't made to be injected. If you wanna see what your putting into your arm, someone might prepare an injection, but then squirt the solution onto a plate. One brand of methylphenidate for example, you can prepare an injection and might appear to have a solution... but after you see what is left on the plate or whatever it was left to evaporate on, no one in there right mind would want that in their blood vessels. Pills tend to be bound with silicon dioxide a lot, and leaves a sticky residue... or maybe it was magnesium stearate... Bindings are put in a pill to hold it together, intact, and unless it came in as a paranetal preparation I wouldn't chance it.
Swim has heard of people melting down Ambien CR to get rid of the time released gel inside it. Does anybody know how to do this and willing to share the technique? Thanks.
Been meaning to get back to this thread and attempt to clear something up. SWIM had typed up a lengthy reply to post but failed to transfer it from word processor to forum. Since that point in time SWIM thought of a good example to clarify a point SWIM was trying to make. SWIM had no intentions of conveying the attitude of "I don't care" which at least one poster/reader misinterpretted SWIM's post.
In some other countries there was a benzodiazepine called temazepam available in gel-filled capsules. This was highly abuse prone, as the "gellies" as they were/are called were easily converted to an injectable solution. SWIM has no doubt whatsoever that temazepam is safe to inject when done properly, with sterile equipment/environment, and administered by someone trained or at least skilled at giving injections in the hospitol setting ("not a spoon and cotton professional"). However with it's high bioavailability and rapid onset an injectable formulation isn't really needed. The point is that as far as SWIM is able to recall many countries removed the gel-filled capsule formulations of temazepam from the market along with putting additional restriction on temazepam in some instances as well (much like flunitrazepam "rohypnol" is in the U.S.)
For example, in the U.S. buprenorphine was approved only for pain and available in the form of injectable vials called buprenex at 0.3mg/ml or something like that. So heavily metabolized by the liver that it was not useful in pill form, but then they realized there were sublingual versions in other countries containing 0.2mg under the brand subutex. This was heavily abused in some parts of the world where the binders and fillers caused some horrific reactions at the injection site. There is a file in the archive discribing this practice along with color pictures that will make you never think about trying to inject a suboxone/subutex tablet ever. Buprenorphine is injected with no complication in the buprenex formulation, and complications (although less severe/frequent than the subutex formulations in other countries). Different countries have different formulations for the same brand name drug. Even when a brand name is manufactured by the same company, in the same country, they may change their formulation at some point.
The large number of amputated arms and legs probably was the one commonality observed by everyone from regular citizens, temazepam using citizens, medical professionals, researchers, law enforcement, and of course the media. Temazepam did not cause the amputation, but rather unsterile injection techniques for melting down what SWIM assumes to be a gelatinous liquid and mainlining it. Hence, the point SWIM was trying to get across which was that a great deal of pharmaceuticals are safe to inject. When I speak of a pharmaceutical, I typically think of that particular compound in some base or salt form USP 100% purity sitting at some big factory where it is used as the ingredient in some tablet or capsule formulation where it gets mixxed with 10 other binding, coloring, filling agents, and who knows what else. If i could tell you that a particular compound could be injected safetly would assume that even if that compound could be safely injected that it was the only, single formulation on the planet as regardless if something is safe to inject or not, the chemical that is active will typically remain constant while the additives that vary from brand name to the plethora of generic versions that follow, that leaves 10 variables that may or may not be safe to inject and more than likely some of them aren't.
Ok, so you want to know about the water solubility. That question has already been answered by another poster. But, that really doesn't mean a whole lot in terms of safety. Some drugs must be metabolized by the liver before they will have a therapeutic effect... read about the pharmacokinetics of valium and you will realize that sometimes injecting a 10mg of a substance I.V. will actually have less therapeutic effect than swallowing the 10mg due to the first pass metabolism and the combination of the active metabolites and the prodrug. Other drugs are unsafe to I.V. because the first pass metabolism prevents complications. Codeine is a good example, along with dihydrocodeine, and something SWIM had never read before but just saw in the new 2009 pharmacopoeia that hydrocodone is lacking of analgesic activity before it is metabolized by CYP2D6 and that CYP2D6 inhibitors can decrease the analgesic activity of all 3 forementioned drugs. I suggest that you read some literature about the pharmacokinetics of any drug you are considering preparing to inject, ESPECIALLY if there is no injectable formulation on the market in any part of the world. Water solubility is not really an indication that something is safe to inject as most molecules must be both water soluble and still lipid soluble to the point that the drug can travel through the blood stream and still be allowed access through the BBB. Amphetamine is a perfect example of a compound that is a well balanced substance as such.
Hopefully the misinterpretation is cleared up as I merely wanted to point out that no pills are safe to inject and even compounds that are safe to inject in their pure form are more complicated when it comes to safety than just the binders/fillers/water solubility, but the pharmacokinetics of the specific compound. If you are interested in research or your marmoset would like to experiment with something then most likely if you are on this website, you would likely find pharmacokinetics of a prospective compound quite interesting. Incidently, there seem to be no "Z-drugs" which are formulated as injectables which would make my marmoset cautious before even delving into their pharmacokinetics, and also some newer drugs have mechanisms of action that are not fully understood.
14-03-2009, 18:24
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