TEK - LAUDANUM . . . The Godzilla of homebrews.

[samuraigecko]

Welcome old friends and new scientists.

This is a new guide for the ultimate in tea / homebrew / opium drink / whatever . . .

It is not new, it is something that has been around for as long as opium has been. Though it may not have always been called . . .

LAUDANUM.

Brief History.
Laudanum was a wildly popular drug during the Victorian era. It was an opium-based painkiller prescribed for everything from headaches to tuberculosis.



Victorian nursemaids even spoon fed the drug to cranky infants, often leading to the untimely deaths of their charges.


Originally, Laudanum was thought of as a drug of the working class. As it was cheaper than gin it was not uncommon for blue-collar men and woman to binge on laudanum after a hard week's work. Use of the drug spread rapidly. Doctors of the time prescribed it for almost every aliment. Many upper-class women developed habits.


The outbreak of tuberculosis may have been another factor in the drug's rising popularity. For a short period of time the tuberculosis "look" (very pale skin and frequent fainting spells) was quite in vogue. Victorian women went to great lengths to emulate the look, often taking arsenic to pale the skin (slowly poising themselves to death).


Laudanum's biggest clam to fame however was its use by the romantic poets. Many of the Pre-Raphaelites (Among them Lord Byron, Shelly and others) were know to indulge. The image of the romantic poet, pale, morose, drunk on absinthe and laudanum is a common one. The film Gothic portrays the stereotypical image of that society.

Anyhoo
enough of the crap, what is the theory behind how its made . . .

SWIM must first warn that this is an EXTREMELY potent medicine. Caution is always advised but here it is EMPHASIZED. Laudanum WILL kill a person if they exceed their limit. It does not care how good the person thinks they are, how experienced they think they are, how much tolerance they think they have, how bulletproof the person thinks they are . . . it will just kill you anyway. Know the dosages, be cautious, stay within SWIyour limits and do NOT be influenced by the alcohol into drinking more because OD comes later on when it has kicked in properly.

OK now that we are done with that, lets get onto the good stuff.

Laudanum is a lot like a poppy pod tea but it is usually made with a wine of some description. Good laudanums were always made from actual bled opium but AWESOME laudanums are easily made with just poppy pods.

As always freshly dried is best. But dried pods from an unknown source will do if they have to. Poppy seed is crap and SWIM reomends to stay away from it. He knows that others may disagree but he will say here and now that they are WRONG and will not even entertain a discussion about it.

The Laudanum usually started with some kind of wine as a base. Into this was placed poppy pods, vanilla sticks, cinnomon sticks, cloves and any other number of flavor enhacing herbs and left to steep. This was done both with and without heat depending on the apothacary's preferece.

Quite often the best laudanum's were made from the actual opium latex itself. This was because a more potent brew could be made without the added flavors being extracted from the pod flesh. A rather large amount of Opium can be used to make a bottle when compared to ground poppy straw. One has to remember that 4gr of good opium can be leathal to a human, sometimes even only 2.

By guaging the normal amount of pods one usually uses to make a tea with one can also guage their own dosages rather safely. Stick with that as a guideline and any scietist should be fairly safe. However that same scientist must remember that the alcohol will also be influencing the effect so even the standard dosage should be approached with caution. A good trial is to try half of the dosage which is usually used. This should not be in proportion to the liquid. One cannot think that their normal dosage is 10 pods and this is done in a liter of liquid "so I am going to be a hero and try 5 pods in 500ml of a strong wine and see what happens" that is how hypothetical scientists get found on the floor with a stupid grin on their face by their friends . . while being quite dead.

That said, here is SWIMs currect recipe.

1 x Bottle of "Hennesy" cognac.
15 grams of CFO. (See cooked flake opium thread).
2 x cinnamon stick.
1 x table spoon of raw sugar.
1 x juice of a lemon.
1 x juice of an orange.

SWIM lets this gently steep for a whole day in an air tight bottle with no heat or light. He agitates the bottle vigorously by shaking it every few hours when he remembers to.

He then proceeds to filter the liquid with a simple coffee filter to remove any pulp left from the citrus fruits, the cinnamon sticks and any sugar which has not dissolved.

When this is done, about 50ml of this cognac contains a gram of CFO. If CFO is made right then this is exceedingly enough, to much for most. SWIM is extremely experienced and this amount has him thinking "holy shit" because he is not able to say it. Remember that 1000mg (one gram) of good quality CFO will contain a little less than 200mg of Morphine (if made from Tasmanian stock). That is not including the codeine and other alkaloids in the CFO. SWIM says 200mg because of the alkaloid ratio of morphine in the available latex. He has talked about this in a few threads and will outline it again here breifly.

"Everyone knows that the morphine content of any given pod is unpredictable even across the same strain of plant stock. However the morphine content in the latex produced remains fairly consistant. If the Tasmanian stock is used as an example we can quite easily see how this works.

lets say that 2 plants are incised and left to bleed.

Plant 1 bled 0.3 of a gram
Plant 2 bled 0.2 of a gram

Combined this leaves us with 0.5 of a gram of latex or "Opium". The known Morphine content for Tasmanian stock is 30%.

1000mg = 1gr, this would mean that 30% of 1gr is 300mg or 0.3gr
500mg = 0.5gr, this would mean that 30% of 0.5gr is 150mg or 0.15gr
This only applies to Tasmanian stock, the potency of any other given stock may vary and should be researched.

Here are a few more links to posts people have made about Laudanum, including an older recipe of SWIMs.

1920's French Laudanum.
Laudanum for the Interested.
Another Recipe Thread.
More recipes including .doc and .pdf 's
Potter's Poppy Beer Thread.

All above threads are KUDOS to the respective scientists that started said thread.

Hopefully this thread may take some interest and kick off.

Peace

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Great tek, thank you!
	very informative with points on harm reduction
	And a very good reading! Like a time machine trip to the 19th century
	Samuraigecko gives great, detailed, and informative posts.

[G_nome]

Nice one, thank you!

SWIM would love to give this a try, but would it be possible to make it just with poppy straw as opposed to CFO?
If so, SWIM shall give this recipe a try but instead of using cognac he'll use a nice bottle of Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon instead.

[cra$h]

sounds very interesting, and a little dangerous. Swim's not a fan of mixing downers, but how does the alcohol add to what's sounding like regular pod tea. in other words, a trip report would be an enjoyable read.

once again, the samauri proves he knows ALL about opiates.

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by cra$h

sounds very interesting, and a little dangerous. Swim's not a fan of mixing downers, but how does the alcohol add to what's sounding like regular pod tea. in other words, a trip report would be an enjoyable read.

once again, the samauri proves he knows ALL about opiates.

It could be that it is a little dangerous, however it was a legitimate medicine for quite some time and according to wiki it is still made in the UK (recipe may have changed from those that SWIM posted).

Originally Posted by G_nome

Nice one, thank you!

SWIM would love to give this a try, but would it be possible to make it just with poppy straw as opposed to CFO?
If so, SWIM shall give this recipe a try but instead of using cognac he'll use a nice bottle of Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon instead.

Yep CPS (concentrated poppy straw) can be used rather than CFO. It just needs to be remembered that the alcohol to opiate ratio needs to be controlled (I.E: more opiates that alcohol if possible) so that only a small glass or shot is needed to get the desired effect. Too much alcohol consumption while O'ing (sounds like something one does to oprah) is not good of course.

Peace

[G_nome]

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

It could be that it is a little dangerous, however it was a legitimate medicine for quite some time and according to wiki it is still made in the UK (recipe may have changed from those that SWIM posted).

Aye, there's an over the counter cough and cold medicine here in the UK called Gee's Linctus which contains opium tincture (Or laudanum as it's otherwise known).


Anyway, thanks again, samurai, for the info
SWIM's gonna give this a try soon, very soon.

[yaba]

Like your tread and your post samuraigecko all have been good information for swim but, does swiy ever use a bodum French press ?

Swim got this from a site and uses it like this: Put 40 grams* of poppy straw in the bodum then swim puts 250mls of lemon juice (made from concentrate) in the bodum, let it sit for 10 minutes. And puts hot water in it (not boiling) stirs at now and again for a few hours (2 hours is normal).

Then he uses the press and serves 2 cups, puts some more warm water in there with a little bit of leftover lemon juice, lets it sit for 15 minutes have one more press then drink it !!!

He gets 3 cups from 40 grams of poppy pods*


*keep in mined that all poppy pods strength's vary and 40 grams is a high dose ! Swims advice would be to start of with 10 grams and work up from there.

Swim finds the use of a bodum a great help for poppy tea and was surprised he hasn't seen it here.

[samuraigecko]

Yes, french presses are commonly used in tea making. It can probably be applied to LAUDANUM making also if one were to use CPS as the starting material. Since SWIM personally uses CFO as his starting material he has no need of it.

However, as was said previously, a french press is great in application if one were to be making a LAUDANUM from CPS.

Peace

[thebige]

Swim has always found your info informative and thanks you.
This recipe sounds like it might taste better then some other antique recipes that are floating around.Swim has tried others attempts and found that they can vary in potency........greatly...........must be the chef,again beware......swim found out when properly made......you don't need that much and more then agrees with you when you say "kicked in properly" .
Nothing great to add other then swim is thinking of making a bottle to give to his mom to put on the pantry shelf............for medicinal purposes as swims mom refuses to go to the doctor sometimes(Swim shits you not)...........
In doing so he has also decided to create a nice label to put on the bottle...........Swim screwed around with a program..........but has better and quicker results with pen and paper.........This recipe will be "Gecko Brand"

[MarkyMayhem]

Just wondering, aprox. how many average sized pods are needed to produce 15g of CFO?

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by MarkyMayhem

Just wondering, aprox. how many average sized pods are needed to produce 15g of CFO?

Once again, this is not answerable. It can vary depending on the latex production of the pod itself. No two pods will produce the same amount of latex though the latex itself is consistent in its potency.

This is why SWIM states to KNOW ONES DOSAGE and pod type before even attempting this.

SWIM usually has about 50 pods that make up about 10 to 15 grams of very concentrated CFO. This is an extremely ballpark figure.

Peace

[sandow74]

Going to have to try this out as soon as I find another source for taz pods. Opiates make me so happy but here in the US are so damn tightly regulated it makes Swim sick. He truly believes that some people are just dopamine deficient and that those people function best when given a stable and reliable source of opiates. Much like insulin for a diabetic, nobody in their right mind would condemn the diabetic but the opium lover is a pariah. In 50 years our society will look back and be amazed at how absurd our drug laws were.

[robshaka]

Swim recently added about 250ml of whisky to his pod tea and had a fairly unpleasant experience. He only had about 8 pods(he usually needs 15) so wasn't expecting much, but fuck, was he wrong! Swim had a really great high for the first two hours then followed by the worst stomach and liver pains of his life. This was then followed by the most horrible itching that lasted for 8 hours or so. Swim usually likes itching but he practically scatched his face off which was covered in a rash the next day.
Anyway, Swim found out whisky can have as much as 40% of acetic acid in it which creates diamorphine(heroin) but also lots of other noxious, unpleasant shit. So, if any Swiy are thinking of whisky, don't bother.

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by robshaka

Anyway, Swim found out whisky can have as much as 40% of acetic acid in it which creates diamorphine(heroin) but also lots of other noxious, unpleasant shit. So, if any Swiy are thinking of whisky, don't bother.

Acetic acid alone is not strong enough to acetylate both positions 3 and 6 of the morphine molecule (thus creating 3,6DAM - THAT IS .. positions 3 and 6 DUAL acetylated morphine, which is diamorphine / diacetylemorphine / Heroin)

acetic acid alone is also not strong enough to acetylate just one position of the molecule so the adding of acetic acid will do very little if any acetylation from SWIMs experiments. Glacial acetic acid (non-aqueous) WILL acetylate position 6 of the morphine molecule but only when a specific catalyst is used to bind the site.

This creates 6MAM (position 6 mono acetylated morphine) but can also produce 6MAC (position 6 mono acetylated Codeine) which is poisonous to humans. Using an alcohol or liquor which is either void of or low in acetic acid is recomended.

Peace

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by robshaka

Swim recently added about 250ml of whisky to his pod tea and had a fairly unpleasant experience. He only had about 8 pods(he usually needs 15) so wasn't expecting much, but fuck, was he wrong! Swim had a really great high for the first two hours then followed by the worst stomach and liver pains of his life. This was then followed by the most horrible itching that lasted for 8 hours or so. Swim usually likes itching but he practically scatched his face off which was covered in a rash the next day.
Anyway, Swim found out whisky can have as much as 40% of acetic acid in it which creates diamorphine(heroin) but also lots of other noxious, unpleasant shit. So, if any Swiy are thinking of whisky, don't bother.

SWIM wanted one to add something else here also as he was distracted when it was being read back to him.

250ml with an 8 pod tea is rather silly. SW-I mean . . . a quarter of a liter dude? with an 8 pod tea? of course SWIyou are going to have an unpleasant time. One does not need a degree in Biochemistry to acertain that.

SWIM must make another cautionary note here again . . . .

KNOW SWIYOUR DOSAGES THEN HALVE IT FOR LAUDANUM.

In SWIMs method he is only taking 50ml of Hennesy which contains about a gram of CFO. He is quite opiate experienced (having done this for 20 or more years) and even this has him feeling "HOLY SHIT DUDE".

Any opiate will increase the effects of alcohol and in turn alcohol will increase the efficiency and sedative properties of Opiates.

ONE NEEDS TO BE CAREFUL WITH THIS INFORMATION.
DO NOT MISUSE IT.

KEEP IT OUT OF REACH OF OTHERS WHOM MAY BE TEMPTED TO DRINK IT AS IT WILL HARM THEM, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE NOT USED TO OPIATES. IF THEY DO NOT KNOW IT CONTAINS OPIATES THEY MAY DRINK THE WHOLE BOTTLE AND DIE FROM IT. THIS SHOULD BE AVIODED AT ALL COSTS.

LAUDANUM KILLED A LOT OF PEOPLE IN ITS TIME.

DO NOT THINK.....
"I CAN DRINK HEAPS AND NOT BE EFFECTED TOO BADLY, I CAN DRINK A BOTTLE OF WHISKEY AND HARDLY EVEN BE DRUNK"
BECAUSE ADDING OPIATES CHANGES THE DYNAMIC AND SYNERGISTIC EFFECTS OF ALL OPIATES.

Peace and be safe

Reputation Comments on this post:

	excellent advice! Esp. good point about keeping it away from others.
	poison control for idiots, nicely done
	good point hope it will safe lifes

[robshaka]

Usually 8 pods gives swim a very mild sedation, so he was trying to up the ante as much as possible. Hen and chick pods he usually needs 15 - anything else though he needs 20. He's done it with brandy since, at about 100ml, with roughly the same high, minus the stomach ache and monstrous itching. And by using less - swim now has twice the amount of pods at the same price.

[G_nome]

Woah, fucking hell man, scary shit.

Never knew that about whiskey, thanks for the heads up.
But would it actually create heroin just like that? SWIM knows ye need acetic acid to make heroin, but didn't think you could just stick some in poppy tea and bingo, smack!

[robshaka]

Swim would imagine it creates some heroin. The high is definitely more intense and different. Pod tea already has morphine in it, so statistically some of that morphine will get turned into diamorphine. It's when it reacts with codeine in the tea that it creates the poisonous stuff. Apparently, though he isn't sure, it also creats 6MAM which is even more potent than heroin. Despite the intense high, SWIM actually prefers the more mellow high normal tea gives you.

[samuraigecko]

Ahh, good choice. Brandy and Cognac are actually the same thing. Its just that Brady can not be called COgnac cos it has to come from the place Cognac to be called that.

Bit of trivia . . .

Peace

[bcubed]

Lizard intends to give this a try, as he finds his favorite means of taking opium is by drinking liquid (granted, CFO can be used more economically, but it seems to lack a certain someting in L'sHO.) The alcohol would allow a better shelf life, plus a brown beer bottle looks far less incriminating than a pile of tan powder, should the SHTF.

Two questions:

1. What's the minimum alcohol % to inhibit microbal growth?
2. Anyone know proper "canning" procedures? (Sterilize, heat, and cap hot is all Lizard knows.)

He thinks he'll use Sambuca to disguise the poppy tea taste. (Cognac is out of the question as a result of a youthful indiscretion involving that liquor as a young reptile...causes him to do his Linda Blair impersonation.)

[Potter]

you don't use canning procedures, you bottle booze. You need clean bottles, corks or caps, and a machine to put them on the bottle (you CAN cork by hand, it sucks, if you use the wedge shaped corks you can only store for a few months)

If you're booze is good when it goes in the bottle, it should store for at least a year. For more then that you need I THINK 10%+, might be 11%.

I've put home brew in canning jars, filled them to the top and just screwed on the lids, haven't had an issue yet. Frankly, you bottle booze mostly to keep it from being exposed to oxygen, as long as you minimize airspace you'll be fine for at least 6 months.

Long term storage requires proper wine corks.

With liquor (20%ABV) you can simply put in a sealed jar and be fine for years.

[samuraigecko]

Any brewing show will sell the appropriate bottles.

There are "tapped thread" bottles which will seal indefinitely. This is a PET bottle which has a self sealing tap thread cap. This is a very popular seller in most home brewing shops.

There is also a cap press which can be bought from the same places. This assumes that SWIyou will save your own glass beer bottles and use the cap press (and a bag of new flared caps) to cap SWIyour bottles. The caps have a type of thin silicon on them and also provide an indefinite seal.

If one was to use any liquor for preservation methods then one can expect it to be preserved indefinitely. A bottle of scotch, glaliano, sambuca, whatever . . will last for quite a while without any changes.

To minimize or eliminate any microbal activity then one would just use "bottle wash" that is also sold at home brewing places and even in supermarkets. It is a sterilizing wash that bottles are washed in before they are filled. Bottle wash is very safe to use and is intended for use on things used for human consumption.

Hope this has been of help.

Peace

[thebige]

Hello again.........just a couple of questions.
Could morphine be used from pill-form as it would provide know doseage amounts as oposed to CPS.Not effecting taste?
Also after a bottle-wash,hand-cork,would a waxdip or waxseal extend the possiblity of air infiltration?
just wondering and again ty for this thread.



May try again with coffee flavored brandy..........

[samuraigecko]

Yes and Yes.

Peace

[jtb]

this is all great info, but i too am curious as to the difference between drinking laudanum and drinking just plain poppy tea. are there any differences significant enough to justify going through the trouble other than the satisfaction of creating one's own old school apothecary brew?

[samuraigecko]

If the thread was read well then one would see that the main point of Laudanum is that a much smaller volume is needed to achieve the same dosage, This is obviously its main advantage.

However, there are others both confirmed and non-confirmed.

Taste is much improved if one finds a liquor they like and learns how to do it well.

Absorption rate is improved (in theory, yet to be confirmed).

Alcohol and Opiates work synergistically (caution advised, see the above mentioned points in the thread) and can produce a more pronounced effect.

And probably a few others if anySWIone else wants to chirp in . . . .

Peace