Combinations - Olanzapine/Zyprexa and Methadone

[baron samedi]

Does anyone know whether or not taking Olanzapine would inhibit the more "pleasurable" effects of taking opioids, in this case Methadone? SWIM takes, at present 5mg Olanzapine and 35mg Methadone, and the only interaction he has heard about, is Olanzapine increasing the sedation of Methadone. However, having taken Olanzapine for many years, and having taken many different drugs whilst on it, SWIM's experience is that it reduces the euphoria/pleasure of pretty much every drug he's taken. It may also reduce some of the more unpleasant effects of drugs which cause symptoms of psychosis or anxiety, but opiates in general do not fall into this category, AFA SWIM knows (maybe Thebaine can cause these symptoms).
Anyway, what SWIM really wants to know is whether reducing his Olanzapine dose will enable him to experience any more pleasure from his daily Methadone dose? SWIM knows many people would argue that Methadone causes no pleasure anyway, but SWIM has also heard arguments to the contrary. He is sure he has read a thread in the anti-psychotics forum, stating that a SWIMMER experienced a 50% reduction in euphoria, whilst on Olanzapine, when IV'ing heroin, so suspects that Olanzapine will reduce opiate-induced euphoria. Any opinions or experiences?

[oggy]

SWIM was on orlanzapine for a short time, he was taking kratom at the time and it just felt the same but kratom isn't that strong anyway. If anything you'll just feel more sedated but not in the nice way, more of in the zombified way like anti psychotics.

[baron samedi]

So it won't take away any euphoric effects of opioid-type drugs in SWIY's opinion?

[oggy]

Well methadone isn't euphoric in the first place, it does have recreational effects however, but not like the euphoric buzz you get of heroin. SWIM has only had 1 euphoric buzz of kratom and that was the first time he tried it. He still likes kratom for its chill zone effect but there is no euphoria, its like most opiates though, the euphoria doesn't last.

If your body is used to the methadone then reducing the orlanzapine wont make much difference, maybe a little less sedated but that's it. ISO.

Orlanzapine generally takes the joy out of life, this is why other drugs may suck on orlanzapine.

[baron samedi]

Orlanzapine generally takes the joy out of life, this is why other drugs may suck on orlanzapine.

This is exactly what SWIM is worried about, SWIOggy, in terms of Methadone. If there is any "joy" to be had from SWIM's low (35mg) dose of Methadone, will Olanzapine cancel this out. SWIM doesn't want to get into an argument about Methadone and euphoria, but at its best methadone has a positive effect on SWIM's mental state, so does not want Olanzapine to diminish this effect. He should mention that he is only on 5mg Olanzapine (although he has been as high as 20), so we are talking about a comparitively low dose anyway.
Could SWIOggy expand a little on why Olanzapine does take the joy out of life? Thing is, this was a big problem for SWIM before he went on Olanzapine 10 years ago (he thinks anhedonia is the medical term), and he does not think that it has done anything much to alleviate this problem. However, if he was to just stop taking it altogether he would get withdrawl symptoms. Does SWIY think it was strange that someone who was struggling to experience natural feelings of joy/pleasure anyway, has been left on Olanzapine for 10 years? Are there any psychiatric drugs that would be better suited to actually allow SWIM to experience NATURAL (as opposed to drug-induced) pleasure?

[oggy]

Originally Posted by baron samedi

Could SWIOggy expand a little on why Olanzapine does take the joy out of life? Thing is, this was a big problem for SWIM before he went on Olanzapine 10 years ago (he thinks anhedonia is the medical term), and he does not think that it has done anything much to alleviate this problem. However, if he was to just stop taking it altogether he would get withdrawl symptoms. Does SWIY think it was strange that someone who was struggling to experience natural feelings of joy/pleasure anyway, has been left on Olanzapine for 10 years? Are there any psychiatric drugs that would be better suited to actually allow SWIM to experience NATURAL (as opposed to drug-induced) pleasure?

Olanzapine blocks one of your serotonin receptors and dopamine, these are your pleasure neurotransmitters. You need dopamine to be interested in energetic things like sex and serotonin for the more creative interests like music and art, serotonin also controls your appetite and blocking this will make you binge out on food. Olanzapine is blocking your most important mood neurotransmitters so it generally kills the "joy" in life.

Unfortunately I think all anti psychotics block dopamine so there will always be a kill joy effect from them. You could try changing to one that only blocks dopamine and once your serotonin levels are back up you might start experiencing some joy out of your drugs. But to be honest, the nice effect from methadone wears off pretty fast, SWIM was on 120mg's per day and after a few months, he was pretty bored of it and wasn't taking anything else at the time.

SWIM went cold turkey from 15mg's of olanzapine and never noticed any change in his psychosis and didn't experience any withdrawal. It took 2 months for his energy levels and mood to creep back up. Though he had only been on it for 3 months or so, if SWIY has been on it for 10 years then definitely talk to your Doctor first before changing your dose or medication.

[baron samedi]

Well, it's not so much that SWIM wants to experience joy from his drugs, rather he'd like to be able to experience joy/pleasure without having to resort to using recreational drugs. Trouble is there are a lot of different aspects to SWIM's mental health problems, but if he were able to regain his lust for life, at least 1 very important aspect would be solved.
From what SWIM knows of Olanzapine, for people suffering from schizophrenia, it can actually have a positive effect on peoples capacity to feel joy/pleasure. Unfortunately for SWIM it does not appear to work for him, and he's had most success with an anti-depressant called Venlafaxine/Effexor. He also knows that there are other psychiatric drugs which can be effective in combatting loss of pleasure, such as tricyclic anti-depressants, MAOI's and even, as a last resort ECT. None of his doctors seem able to suggest anything different for SWIM however, concentrating more on other aspects of his problems, like anxiety, social anxiety, insomnia etc. He was experiencing loss of pleasure for 3 years before starting Olanzapine, and resorted mainly to cannabis to rectify this, so Olanzapine is not the cause of this problem, but on its own it has probably made things worse for SWIM, if anything.