Other - Why Christians should oppose the use of Marijuana

[chillinwill]

Two recent stories in the news have triggered in me a desire to warn parents of the seriousness of marijuana use.

The first was the news that Michael Phelps was caught using a bong. Without question, Phelps became a national hero as he won gold medal after gold medal this past year in the summer Olympics.

Both adults and kids admired and respected his achievements. So, I was terribly disappointed to hear that he had engaged in such activities, but what bothered me even more was the relative lack of outrage concerning his behavior. Kellogg Co. stopped using Phelps in its advertising campaign, but Subway stuck to its man. This is sad.

I believe that our nation is moving dangerously close to the normalization of marijuana.
The second story supports my gut feeling. President Obama is very close to appointing Gil Kerlikowske as the new drug czar for the federal government. Kerlikowske is currently the chief of police in Seattle, Wash. In 2004, Seattle enacted a law placing marijuana use as the lowest priority of all possible legal violations.

Pot smoking became less of an issue than "jay walking." In addition, Seattle is known for its annual "Hempfest." During the "festivities," the police provide oversight, but are instructed to make no arrests for the use of marijuana.

Throughout my life I have consistently opposed marijuana. Although I have never personally smoked pot, various people whom I know and love most certainly have. I have witnessed its effects firsthand.

I have engaged in many a discussion with those who consider marijuana use not such a big deal. I have also talked with many parents about how to oppose marijuana. This brings me to my concern. Most parents fall back on one of two arguments.

First, they use a rationale that there are detrimental physical effects to smoking pot. I believe this has some reasonableness to it, but it is hard to argue this case when an increasing number of doctors consider marijuana's negative side effects to be less than other legal drugs of choice.

As a Christian, my opposition to marijuana must not be dependent upon the most recent medical opinion.

The second reason parents give to their children against marijuana use is that it is illegal. I am convinced we will not be able to use this argument much longer. Unfortunately, we are moving toward a day where marijuana will likely become legal. What will be our response to our kids when it does?

I oppose marijuana. I oppose its use, period. I do believe it has many negative physical effects, but I believe its spiritual effects are far more destructive.

My following comments as to the destructive effects of marijuana are not taken from studies. They come from my personal observations. I hope they will help parents educating their children about the evils of marijuana use.

First, any use of marijuana produces a high. Marijuana is not like alcohol in this sense. I am absolutely opposed to drunkenness. But I encourage parents to not fall into the trap of making a comparison where limited use of marijuana seems acceptable. Any amount of marijuana produces a high and is therefore wrong.

Second, marijuana reduces a person's moral resolve. This effect occurs when a person is actually high. But it also occurs at other times when a person uses marijuana regularly.
As a Christian worker on college campuses and as a pastor, I have counseled many people dealing with other moral struggles from which they desire freedom.

Pot smokers often will be amazingly open and honest with me regarding their struggles. Initially, I was impressed with this vulnerability. But I was soon to discover that there was little actual improvement. I was trying to deal with some other moral issue, without first dealing with the use of marijuana. It didn't work.

Their moral resolve was inhibited. They could often see wrong in their life. They could recognize that it was evil, but they did not have sufficient remorse or the resulting inner resolve to actually overcome the evil.

On the other hand, if a person with whom I was helping to deal with some other moral evil was also willing to stop their use of marijuana, they repeatedly had greater resolve to deal with the initial moral evil.

Third, marijuana becomes an idol, replacing God in a person's life. This is the reason why godliness and marijuana use are incompatible. Some have tried to reason with me that this is only due to the false stigma against marijuana.

If we could remove the stigma, they say, then people could love God and love marijuana as well. I am not convinced, nor should you be. Marijuana use fits well with certain religions that worship the earth. Several pagan religions use marijuana to enhance their "spiritual experience." But this cannot be the case with Christianity.

The Christian life is not a denial of all pleasure, a point that those who use marijuana are quick to point out. But it does include spiritual discipline, clarity of thought and personal moral and spiritual resolve.

The Christian disciplines his body and keeps it under control (I Corinthians 9:27), so that he is able to set his mind on things above (Colossians 3:2). Marijuana use replaces godly zeal with the hedonistic love of pleasure.

And so, while Michael Phelps may be able to win a gold medal and smoke pot, and while our current president does not fully grasp the detrimental effects of marijuana use, you as a parent should continue to teach its evils.

I warn you to not slip in your resolve to oppose it. No, I beg you, for the sake of your kids, be strong in your opposition to marijuana.

By Mike Thompson
Truth or Consequences - The News Herald
Published: March 5, 2009
http://www2.morganton.com/content/20...na/lifestyles/

Just to clarify, I am not Mike Thompson nor do I wish to be. I am merely a member of this forum who posts lots of news articles. The attitudes and opinions in this article do not reflect mine at all.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Interesting to see this viewpoint.
	Some people think you *are* Mike Thompson - please make it more clear you are quoting someone else in future!
	Thanks alot, very interesting viewpoint...

[cannabis-sam]

My following comments as to the destructive effects of marijuana are not taken from studies. They come from my personal observations. I hope they will help parents educating their children about the evils of marijuana use.

And your observations, as a superstitious, biast, right wing christian have nothing on scientific studies- a peer reviewed system of knowledge built up over hundreds of years, compared to the bible which says god created the world in seven days and jesus floated to heaven. What a stupid bitch.

[Pseudo-leipä]

I agree with the first and third points. I agree with the first point in that if one is opposed to getting drunk then one must also be opposed to getting stoned. However, I don't disagree with either. I agree with the third point in that I could see people "idolizing" marijuana in a sense, and that it could distract them from God (although I guess research would be needed to see how many practising Christians smoke weed regularly). However, I don't believe in God. Also, people who use weed are no more likely to "idolize" it than people who drink alcohol are to idolize booze, or people who use currency are to idolize money. Or, indeed, sports fans are to idolize sportsmen.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good points well raised

[Nature Boy]

Opposition to alcohol use can be compatible with marijuana advocacy. Alcohol is far more likely to produce violent behaviour whereas marijuana is generally known to mellow people out. Alcohol is far more toxic and is physically addictive too. Regardless of that point, the argument made in that article is disgraceful. It reads like the desperate pleas of a bitter, scornful Christian who believes government should still have an active role in purifying the minds of its citizens by telling them how they can and cannot think or feel. It gives other, less puritanical, Christians a bad name frankly. Government policies need not pander to mythical entities and out-dated moral codes based on Bronze Age babbling.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	An excellent summation and overview of a terrible article
	Well said and thought out response.

[CoryInJapan]

Listen,Cannabis has proven to be medically beneficial and non toxic to the human body.

swim has grown up in the Church his whole child hood and at the 18 of 18 he started to smoke pot after realizing all the lies that have been put into his head about it.
He is still a christian and He SMOKEs POT

He is for the legislation and legalization of marijuana.

He does recall it saying in the bible in the first book of the bible that god givith on to man all "SEED" baring plants and "HERBS"

marijuana is a seed baring herb

Maybe he didn't mean for us to smoke it,but using it in other methods to get its medical benefits "DO NOT DEFILE THE TEMPLE OF GOD"


and that is the only Legitimate argument you have as a christian is that it defiles the temple of god which if not smoke it does not.

Even smoking it isn't TOO harmful. A lot less harmful than you think


Genesis 1:11-13
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Genesis 9:3
king james bible
Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Just a couple scripltual quotes for you non-cannabis christians out there.

Reputation Comments on this post:

These are excellent points and quotes.

[Sven99]

Christians may well oppose marijuana use, and that is most definitely their right. They also oppose adultery, but nobody bar the most militant extremists is calling for that to be illegal. Legislation must be based on what is best for society, not on personal morality.

Interestingly, the Church of England supports legalisation of cannabis.

[Anonabyss]

This is full of lies, ignorance, and stupidity. It isn't even sensible enough to warrant the wasting of my energy for a rebuttal; it's just disgusting.

Originally Posted by cannabis-sam

And your observations, as a superstitious, biast, right wing christian have nothing on scientific studies- a peer reviewed system of knowledge built up over hundreds of years, compared to the bible which says god created the world in seven days and jesus floated to heaven. What a stupid bitch.

As retarded as the original idea you are arguing is, this ignorant comment makes you seem no better.

Reputation Comments on this post:

who are you calling an idiot? Chilly willy didn't write it.

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by Anonabyss

I can't believe idiots like this are permitted on this website, never mind permitted to be palladium members.

You do know that I didn't write this article....I just posted it in the drug news section. The author of the article is Mike Thompson

[cannabis-sam]

And your observations, as a superstitious, biast, right wing christian have nothing on scientific studies- a peer reviewed system of knowledge built up over hundreds of years, compared to the bible which says god created the world in seven days and jesus floated to heaven. What a stupid bitch.

May I ask how, by saying that his personal experiences which are heavily biast by his beliefs, which I believe to be superstition, and that she has been listening to none of the scientific evidence, which is much more accurate than anecdotal evidence make me clueless or ignorant. Did you even read the quote I was responding to? Fancy actually explainy why you think things are wrong, ignorant etc not just what you think, it adds far more to the discussion, than just posting what someone wrote is bollocks.

[chickenlurver167]

how can you be so against marajuana and not even mention the problems with alcohol. Alcohal and ciggarettes are just as harmful if not more harmful and they are legal.

[sandoz1943]

Talk about some people not being able to recognize evil when they see it or bullshit when they hear it. SWIM believes there might very well be some creative force behind the scenes but does ot subscribe to christian mythology. How could you belive that a god created you with a brain and the ability to dream and think and conceptualize good and evil but not the freedom to make choices for yourself. What a dick your god must be to have created marijuana and then judge you for using it. SWIM would not worship any god who would purposely make something "evil" to tempt her and then judge her if she did it. What a dick thing to do. This is pretty much what your proposing here. Just trying to look at it using the same logic.

[SWIM Bulgakov]

"Pot smokers often will be amazingly open and honest with me regarding their struggles. Initially, I was impressed with this vulnerability. But I was soon to discover that there was little actual improvement. I was trying to deal with some other moral issue, without first dealing with the use of marijuana. It didn't work.

Their moral resolve was inhibited. They could often see wrong in their life. They could recognize that it was evil, but they did not have sufficient remorse or the resulting inner resolve to actually overcome the evil.

On the other hand, if a person with whom I was helping to deal with some other moral evil was also willing to stop their use of marijuana, they repeatedly had greater resolve to deal with the initial moral evil."

Could there really be a genuine experience of observation behind this claim?

It is an honest question so be gentle with my vulnerability!

[Kelveren]

Originally Posted by SWIM Bulgakov

"Pot smokers often will be amazingly open and honest with me regarding their struggles. Initially, I was impressed with this vulnerability. But I was soon to discover that there was little actual improvement. I was trying to deal with some other moral issue, without first dealing with the use of marijuana. It didn't work.

Their moral resolve was inhibited. They could often see wrong in their life. They could recognize that it was evil, but they did not have sufficient remorse or the resulting inner resolve to actually overcome the evil.

On the other hand, if a person with whom I was helping to deal with some other moral evil was also willing to stop their use of marijuana, they repeatedly had greater resolve to deal with the initial moral evil."

Could there really be a genuine experience of observation behind this claim?

It is an honest question so be gentle with my vulnerability!

Yes. Quite frankly this person, as long as they are who they claim to be, has probably counseled a number of pot smokers, and had less success dealing with their 'moral evils'. These are likely heavy users, and as many SWIMs here can attest heavy use leads to not being arsed by much.

However, used in moderation, [insert rant about how everything should be moderated] weed can be a useful spiritual tool -for a closer relationship with God-. It is my personal experience that many christian systems don't actually want their followers to be close to God. If you are close to God you don't need the pastor talking to Him for you. If you are attuned God will let you know when He's pissed at you, so why do you need a religious figure telling you how to absolve your sins, or even worse absolving you of them.

As with everything, heavy use is bad for you, and will effect every aspect of your life, as well as making changes more difficult. But I have a friend who's using pot medically, and it doesn't effect her beyond what she wants it to do and a few side-effects that she's learned to work around because she uses it carefully and monitors herself so she knows when she's hitting dangerous territory.

[SWIM Bulgakov]

Originally Posted by Kelveren

Yes. Quite frankly this person, as long as they are who they claim to be, has probably counseled a number of pot smokers, and had less success dealing with their 'moral evils'. These are likely heavy users, and as many SWIMs here can attest heavy use leads to not being arsed by much.

What I meant was basically that: while this person might be relating a genuine experience he doesn't seem to understand it and the fact that he considers honesty to be a vulnerability indicates that his values might be in greater disorder than these of the pot smokers.

In general everybody should be allowed to believe in God and evil in the privacy of her bedroom, but I see no reason to wash the holy laundry in public that has accepted science as it's guiding and legal standard.

Now I will not be drawn into hopeless theological discussion on a pot sub-forum. Let me just say that:

There is no God, no Good and no evil. These notions are products of human mind that serve to perpetuate order in society.

Cannabis consumption does not and will not help maintaining order in society as we know it and there are even reasons to assume that pot-head-attitude might be opposing the entire economy-based civilization.

IMNHO what makes legalizing cannabis particularly difficult is not as much the ignorance of population in respect to the plant's qualities and dangers, but rather the contradiction of cannabis user's philosophy/mentality and the spirit of our age.

[kb13]

First lets not forget that religion has adapted itself to "current societal needs" throughout history. What I mean is; religion is the #1 controller of the mases. Thus "casually adjust" the word of God with purpose to "better" the current state of society.
There are many warnings of this to come throughout the bible.


Now down to the nitty gritty of cannabis and the teachings of the lord-

Ok, lets look at the Holy Anointing Oil used by Moses and Jesus, among many many others, contained 6.5 pounds of cannabis per batch. This is easily proven. But first, lets check out the recipe for this Oil.

Exodus 30:22 (NIV)
Anointing Oil

22 Then the LORD said to Moses, 23 "Take the following fine spices: 500 shekels [c] of liquid myrrh, half as much (that is, 250 shekels) of fragrant cinnamon, 250 shekels of fragrant cane...



Now, everything I am about to say will be backed up by world renown Rabbis. If one really wants to discern what the Bible means, they must return to the original tongue it was taken from, which is Hebrew. That being said, lets explore the recipe for the Oil and see what happened when the Bible was translated into Greek and Latin and what was lost in that translation.

There are 4 ingredients but I will mention 3 for this argument. The first 2 ingredients are of a distinct identity and a distinct amount. The third ingredient has a distinct amount, but no longer is it a distinct ingredient. The first is 500 shekels of liquid (distilled) myrrh which is a distinct ingredient and a distinct amount. The second is 250 shekels of cinnamon, again, a distinct ingredient and a distinct amount. The third is 250 shekels of "fragrant cane". This is no longer a distinct ingredient. So, what word was here instead of "fragrant cane" in Hebrew before it was translated? Ah yes, the word is, not was, Kaneh Bos. In Greek, that word translates to cannabis. Yes, Jesus and Moses were anointed with olive oil infused with cannabis buds. Contrary to popular belief and doctrine, cannabis is sacred and not at all a "drug" or anything evil or bad. God said it was good and for man in Genesis from the very beginning. Ignorance is a scary thing when zealot types apply it to religion.

No scholar will ever prove this wrong.

There are many warnings of this throughout the bible.

Isaiah 61:1 (KJ)
1: The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2: To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3: To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
4: And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
5: And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6: But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
7: For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.
8: For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.
9: And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.
10: I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
11: For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

Isaiah 62:1 (KJ)
1: For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
2: And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.



Revelation 3:12 (KJ)
12: Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.




Revlation 3:7 (KJ)
7: And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8: I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9: Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10: Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11: Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.


Isaiah 22:12 (KJ)
12: And in that day did the Lord GOD of hosts call to weeping, and to mourning, and to baldness, and to girding with sackcloth:
13: And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.
14: And it was revealed in mine ears by the LORD of hosts, Surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you till ye die, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.
15: Thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, Go, get thee unto this treasurer, even unto Shebna, which is over the house, and say,
16: What hast thou here? and whom hast thou here, that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock?
17: Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee.
18: He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.
19: And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down.
20: And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
21: And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22: And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23: And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.
24: And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons.
25: In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the LORD hath spoken it.



John 15:11 (KJ)
11: These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12: This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14: Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15: Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.



John 14:22 (KJ)
22: Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23: Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24: He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25: These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26: But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
27: Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
28: Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
29: And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.



Matthew 13:10 (NIV)
10The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.



14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
" 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.


15For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'[a] 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

18"Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.



Jeremiah 30:
16 " 'But all who devour you will be devoured;
all your enemies will go into exile.
Those who plunder you will be plundered;
all who make spoil of you I will despoil.
17 But I will restore you to health
and heal your wounds,'
declares the LORD,
'because you are called an outcast,
Zion for whom no one cares.'

18 "This is what the LORD says:
" 'I will restore the fortunes of Jacob's tents
and have compassion on his dwellings;
the city will be rebuilt on her ruins,
and the palace will stand in its proper place.

19 From them will come songs of thanksgiving
and the sound of rejoicing.
I will add to their numbers,
and they will not be decreased;
I will bring them honor,
and they will not be disdained.

20 Their children will be as in days of old,
and their community will be established before me;
I will punish all who oppress them.

21 Their leader will be one of their own;
their ruler will arise from among them.
I will bring him near and he will come close to me,
for who is he who will devote himself
to be close to me?'
declares the LORD.

22 " 'So you will be my people,
and I will be your God.' "

23 See, the storm of the LORD
will burst out in wrath,
a driving wind swirling down
on the heads of the wicked.

24 The fierce anger of the LORD will not turn back
until he fully accomplishes
the purposes of his heart.
In days to come
you will understand this.





They got a lot bigger problems than just the fact that they demonize a sacred plant. They claim to be servants of the one who denires their service. They all as Christians need to listen to the Bible and not the preacher, because he's a liar. Jesus is not his own father nor is he equal to his father. Jesus is not his own Creator.


To some, the sense that God is always watching, or the attendance of church can cause a euphoric state. (like a drug)

[Routemaster Flash]

A question to put to the anti-drug Christians: "If God hadn't wanted us to get high, why did he make cannabis?" - and you can append to that, "...or the opium poppy, the coca bush, the psilocybin and ergot fungi, the mescaline cacti, the Morning Glory, the Baby Woodrose, the various DMT plants, the Fly Agaric toadstool, salvia, kratom, kava-kava..." - the list just goes on and on.

Isn't there a bit in Genesis where God says to Adam something like "I give to you stewardship of the whole Earth, and all its plants and trees and animals and fish to use as you see fit"?

[fidelcatsro]

i agree christians should opose it. good to keep outdated ideas together

[HumansAre]

THere's way to many factors in life in general that effect a a person... They also effect a persons drug abuse... It's almost like the lifestyle that we're born into causes people to abuse everything and anything that makes them feel good... whether it's drugs, food, friends/social activity/religions, sex, learning, music, art... it's all the same... people just need to learn balance... I mean people hate junkies, people hate diehard politicians and religious people etc.... keep balance!

IDK swim thinks life is pointless when people fight each others life choices... just chill don't kill(physically verbally mentally, soul) keep it coming form the soul. It's not about the effects of the drug it's about the feeling... that feeling you get when being one with god/universe. if you don't feel that then you're wasted and sinning. The majority are wasted... with or without drugs, religion, hobbies. and people need to realize this before pointing fingers. people can't get what the should have so they run to what makes them feel good... sadly our government(s) (usa for swim) are a big part of the problem along with mainstream media. Driving people to stess which then drives people to abuse happiness.

Well.. sorry if this post is random and shittily writen or stupid college-kid-like type of thinking.... there's just to much too think about when it comes to this stuff... and in the end it's simple it's almost a waste of time to try to get people to understand... just stay conected with soul/god/universe and everything is fine, live life, and let people learn from your actions. word don't mean shit. Pay your respects with action not just thanks and verbal praise.

[Rainbowzz]

[QUOTE]However, used in moderation, [insert rant about how everything should be moderated] weed can be a useful spiritual tool -for a closer relationship with God-.


Kelveren: wrote the following. His in red, swim responds in blue.

It is my personal experience that many christian systems don't actually want their followers to be close to God.

As a christian who just turned to christianity recently yet remains liberal, i also agree.


If you are close to God you don't need the pastor talking to Him for you.

True. Which is why I do not go to a church. Unless i really just want to!

If you are attuned God will let you know when He's pissed at you, so why do you need a religious figure telling you how to absolve your sins, or even worse absolving you of them.

I do not beleive that a pastor even CAN absolve you of Sin. God, and Jesus, are the only two people who can in fact absolve you of sin or anything like that. in fact, God even says that we are not to judge. In order to take something away, you have to judge it to be so. Therefore, God and Jesus are the only ones who can do this.


Now, I just want to add- I am a christian, and swim is also a marijuana user.

Here are my base beleifs, which i beleive the only ones to be true - the rest is up to interpretation and probably is not the original truth and has been corrupted by man.

Five Christian Absolutes

1. Jesus is the Christ, only begotten Son of the living of God
2. Salvation only through His blood
3. Was crucified and died for the remision of our sins
4. Rose from the dead on the third day
5. Will return for His Church to live with Him forever

And there you go.

[SullyGuy]

See this is why I kinda like Mormons, even if I don't agree with them. They wouldn't spew this nonsense about alcohol being "kinda ok, sorta...". They don't like any of em, regardless of legal status, and you gotta respect that!

This wishy washy "alcohol is ok" nonsense really gets to me, alcohol has caused infinately more pain than marijuana.

In fact, this is the very "more virtuous than thou" attitude that has made Christianity the ridicule of my generation. We are all human, and they don't seem to get that... granted thats more with the right wing.

[bcubed]

This is funny...Lizard was in a bar recently, when a very intoxicated man started pestering him for weed. He wasn't happy to hear Lizard had none, but he then started on why God was down w/ pot. (It had something with Genesis saying God gave Adam "dominion over all the seed-bearing plants"...which I suppose means 'shrooms are still out.)

It was a rather uncomfortable conversation, as talking religion with drunks tends to be, but hey...at least Lizard caged a drink or two outta the guy!

Lizard also had a similar conversation about pot with a evangelical at a university in his home state (the guy was locally famous). Basically, preacher used the "weed gets you stoned; alcohol doesn't get you drunk in moderate amounts" bit. This is preposterous in that very few drinkers find the effects of alcohol irrelevant, even if they seldom or ever get "over the limit." (After all, they make alcohol-free beer and wine...and nobody buys it!)

[538wireman]

^^ A little "off topic" but Swim has always found it best to NOT talk Religion or Politics while drinking/drunk.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Excellent advice

[nate81]

It's downright disturbing that christians will go to such lengths to backup their reasons for their viewpoints and completely overlook very obvious flaws. Like the genesis verses that clearly describe gods intention to provide cannabis for mankind's consumption. Or making such unfounded claims like "marijuana lowers moral resolve".

It's not a lack of smarts and that's what is so frustrating. This type of christian isn't dumb, just so profoundly indoctrinated into these convoluted viewpoints as to be unreachable through logical argument. It would be interesting if it weren't so depressing.

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our mind"

[Kelveren]

Originally Posted by nate81

It's not a lack of smarts and that's what is so frustrating. This type of christian isn't dumb, just so profoundly indoctrinated into these convoluted viewpoints as to be unreachable through logical argument. It would be interesting if it weren't so depressing.

Oh wow. This is slightly off-topic, but also not. If anyone else has seen the movie Jesus Camp.

Evangelicals indoctrinating their children. Evangelicals taking their children out of school to home school them so they can teach creationism. Camps where the participants speak in tongues.

This was all flashed into my mind upon reading the bolded, and I feel the need to share it.

[purplehaze]

As a Christian, my opposition to marijuana must not be dependent upon the most recent medical opinion.

Phaze as a marijuana user, his opposition to Christianity is dependent upon the lack of factual evidence.

This article is garbage. First let's define evil.

• morally objectionable behavior
• morally bad or wrong; "evil purposes"; "an evil influence"; "evil deeds"
• that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune; "the evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones"- Shakespeare
• having the nature of vice
• the quality of being morally wrong in principle or practice; "attempts to explain the origin of evil in the world"
• malefic: having or exerting a malignant influence; "malevolent stars"; "a malefic force"

Obviously marijuana doesn't fit my criteria of what I would consider "evil". I hate when christians get a voice to speak to the world. It's always based on what the bible thinks feels or believes rather than what they believe. Quit ignoring the facts and scientific evidence and think for yourself instead of letting a book tell you how to live your life. That infuriates me. Morality is decided by the man who owns the mind. Not society or religion or laws. But then again, I'm sure this son of a bitch got a good ole pat on the back from his christian buddies for putting out a good "message". Don't read facts and ignore scientific opinions until you're on your death bed and then when they do triple bypass surgery on your old ass to save your life, thank god not medical science. I will not apologize for my strong opinion, if this offends you we agree to disagree.