NO DOUBTS while on acid: true or false?

[yuval]

For me, having NO DOUBTS while on acid is a really big parameter in being in harmony with the universe.


Is it a "true" feeling, do you think? I mean, I perceive the mental processes of others so clearly, am I hallucinating or is it real lucidity, or something in between?


For me, the "surity of action" state seems to free so much mental energy normally dedicated to deciding what to do, it might very account for the sense of surreal "quickening" that the mystical experience embodies.


your thoughts on this are most welcome!

[Hyperreal]

I know what you're talking about. That's a very good point. I suppose the thoughts or insights you might have aren't necessarily true, but I don't think that lessens the feeling of certainty. Though you accept that they may not be true, you're wiling to groove with them, and if they do turn out to be wrong, you'll have no regrets.

[yuval]

Agood case for the feeling of having NO DOUBT being real, is people who by nature feel like this. i like to call them "partially enlightened". they are the ones you can never win an argument with. the lawyer types - but they don't care for lawyering, it's just that they see things in an accurate way, CAN'T see things any other way really.


They say Osho, the spiritual figure, was enlightened from birth - he must've been like this. i have a bunch of friends like this, all of them prodigees, all of them people absolutely adored by everyone they know for being very accountable and for having very high standards. many have exquisite memory capacity. one is indeed a famous lawyer ) another aphilosopher that we call "the master" for his multiple fields of expertise...


i have yet to see them consume large quantities of acid... i wonder if they'll feel any different. the small quantities mainly change their visual perception.


so one must face the possibility that some people are wired like this from birth, even that it might be genetic and not a function of upbringing. the "master"'s sister - she can pick up and re-play any conversation she has had in her life, just like you pick a movie in blockbusters. her small child is also like this, very attentive and focused.


the sad point is that these people, who have been brought up surrounded by people that are not accountable for their actions by their standards, often turn out bitter and angry,and/or emotionally undeveloped. tragic if you ask me - yet these people have such amazingly developed cognitive skills if they ever came round they would be supermen.


your thoughts?

[uqlfy]

Yes some people are hardwired like that. LSD or most any
psychoactive chemical induces a state of mind artificially that can
also occur naturaly,albeit rarely. Now I cant speak for others and I
certainly dont want to sound smug but I can relate to those who are
wired like that. I was able to read by 3 and by 10 I was able to read
and comprehend college level material. I dropped out more less at 14
cause I couldnt stand the public school system or my "peers".

Today I am sucessfully self employed and very content with my personal life.

It took me a very long time to accept that I will always be kinda on
the outside looking in because of how my thought process runs compare
to others.

As for the feeling on LSD being true, well is any feeling true? What is
a true feeling? Is feeling weak and unsure more true than having no
doubts?Lack of doubt is different than strength of conviction. To never
doubt ones sanity is sure sign of insanity.

[yuval]

Originally Posted by uqlfy

Yes some people are hardwired like that. LSD or most any psychoactive chemical induces a state of mind artificially that can also occur naturaly,albeit rarely. Now I cant speak for others and I certainly dont want to sound smug but I can relate to those who are wired like that.

here's another positive reply to this post which i've cross-posted to the kundalini yoga forum at www.kundalini-forums.com:

Originally Posted by christine

i am not claiming to be enlightened.. however i wanted to share.. since i was 7 years old i have written down each and everyday of my life.. i.e. what i did so forth and my take on the day/ insights so forth.. today, i can recall every single day of my 50 some odd years if asked. i can recall what i thought. felt and did an idiosncscracy'.. also it is amazing but i have had the perfectionist/ anger thing going too.. it is kinda like having a 'pea' under ones skin

uqlfy: my advice to you and to such people is to develop emotional depth. by any means i do not mean that i say that you are lacking! but the issue of fulfilling one's potential gets a whole new meaning when your cognitive skills are this strong. the ultimate in emotional development is thinking like a saint. and while i'm not saying that's easy or even wanted, some saintly qualities definitely are worth aspiring to: ultimate mental balance, capacity for love and compassion...


more concretely, there's a buddhist meditation called vipassana (meditation on body sensations). the most popular flavor of it, famous for being very efficient in creating life-changing experiences for those who do it,involves initiation into it in a 10-day retreat, see www.dhamma.org.


it's a silent retreat, you only speak with the teachers in the retreat for about a minute a day, and you don't speak with the other students at all. and while doing this you meditate 10 hourse a day which is not easy - if you have bad knees for instance insist on sitting on a chair.


psychologically, vipassana is a free ride to having a more positive outlook on life. here in israel it's become mainstream because of this, as many people here are early adopter types.


it is free of charge - inc. boarding and food for 10 days. donation only, and you need to complete a course before they receive your donation.

[Hyperreal]

I know a guy who did that dhamma retreat. It's meant to be extremely demanding; most people don't last the full 10 days.

Originally Posted by uqlfy

As for the feeling on LSD being true, well is any feeling true? What is a true feeling? Is feeling weak and unsure more true than having no doubts?Lack of doubt is different than strength of conviction. To never doubt ones sanity is sure sign of insanity.

Good point. People always seem to argue about feelings being real or not. (You often hear people saying that the love created by MDMA is 'false'.) There is no truth condition for a mental state other than for it to exist in one's mind.However, I think what yuval meant was that it a feeling of truth, rather than a feeling that is itself true.


Everyone thinks in a way that is unique to themselves. Therefore everyone has a virtue that only they possess. The trick is to identify this virtue so you can figure out how best to put it to use. I know what you mean when you say that you feel you think in a different way from eveyone else, but so does everyone. The normative thought pattern is a spectre created by the abstraction of different minds coming together: there are no real people who think in the 'normal' way. I have no regard for the usual criteria of 'intelligence' that have become accepted, and don't get me started on 'IQ'. The school systems fail to allow people to reconise heir own potential.

[yuval]

hyperreal: when i did the dhamma.org vipassana retreat we were 20 men and 20 women. one girl left but other than that everyone finished the retreat. the level of physical difficulty was 7/10 - mainly sitting long hours in the same position, which makes you aware of even the minutest pain. the level of mental difficulty was very low. at no time did i consider dropping out. it was entirely in my capacity to withstand the isolation and the physical hardship.


i asked is the feeling of knowing the truth true. i'd like to clarify:


first off, it's not an emotion type of "feeling". it's a SENSE that everything is clear. licidity. there is no duality, no choice to be made. the fact that things are what they are is perceived in its entirety.


the point i was trying to make is whether this sense of "sureness" is true or false: do i really become so much more profound that all answers become immediately apparent? is it just an improvement in mental capacity, in the sense that i become more creative etc. - as is one of the effects of acid? or am i just hallucinating that everything is clear when in fact illogical things make sense to me because i'm tripping, and if my words were played back to me when i'm back to normal i'd think they were BS?


my intuition about this issue is this:


drawing on my experience with the amazing cognitive skills of the people who seem to be "tripping from birth", i would say that indeed one becomes much more intelligent and can be very profound. not many people are extremely articulate, so a tripping person might sound unintelligable. but if someone expresses themselves fully their ideas while tripping will generally hold.


whatever imperfection is, it is in basing what you say while you trip on not enough knowledge or on misconceptions. people, including from my experience people who are "partially enlightened" (or whatever you call it) from birth,are many times not aware of their limitations and so they sometimes get to wrong conclusions.


this is why i said, and i will repeat, that people who are naturally like this can become supermen. they already spent a lifetime building their mental tools based on their born cognitive advantage, and are therefore more discerning. they just need to develop their creative/emotional side more.


i hope this makes sense...


peace


yuval

[uqlfy]

Yuval there was no way you could have known this but I have
practiced kundalini since I was 15 and have been invovled with numerous
"occult" groups. Two being the rosicrucians and golden dawn.

I like to think that I have come along way from the hatefull
person was. Personal growth is good however the greatest measure
of personal growth i feel is in how far I have helped others grow.

The sense you describe is true. I have found though that when I
use a plant or drug to acheive that state it is hard to put in words
the insights. With meditation I am able to recall and express
those thought easily. My theory is that chemical sammahdi is only a
tool to teach you how to walk your dharma without help. Kinda like
training wheels on a bike. When shamans use a plant ally many times
often they say that the plant spirit lives in them and they then no
longer need to ingest the plant to gain effects.

[yuval]

uqlfy:


with regard to service to others, i think this is a terrific value. however by definition it demands much personal sacrifice. not that that is wrong if you're willing to live this way - i'm positive the satisfaction in thi spath is incredible.


as a lazy westerner, my own history with spirituality is basically a series of looking into shortcuts. this is why goenka's flavor of vipassana (www.dhamma.org) is so attractive to me. it's a 10-day deal, you go, you suffer a little bit, your heart awakens just so. you can choose to continue or you can just look back on the experience occasionally - SOMETHING i will have taken from it, that's for sure. and when you do it again you go deeper and so on. i have a friend who've done it 4 times - very happy person. i intend to do my second retreat at the end of this year.


with regard to describing samadhi in words: words, as eckhart tolle said in "stillness speaks", are but signposts pointing to the truth. but as eckhart tolle himself demonstrated in "the power of now", they can be quite powerful signposts. i think language is a means of conveying abstract experiences that are ULTIMATELY beyond words - is far from fulfilling its potential. i will go back to eckhart tolle once again: "stillness speaks" is an example of an experiment at the forefront of this field, something that is not just a book but a unique "thing". when you read it you're SUPPOSED to spend more time thinking about what's written (experiencing the significance would be more precise a definition) then actually reading the words. took me some time to understand that if you do as instructed while reading it it can be very cool, that it's not just a repitition of the first success of "the power of now".


having discussed tolle, tolle has his disadvantages - mainly that his theory about the NOW serves as a framework for discussion for his ideas. i think you should look at such frameworks with extreme caution. personally i prefer raw, fluid-like trip reports. i'm glad i found this forum )


with regard to taking drugs often to slowly merge with the experience: if it's possible, and you can develop a methodology for it, you will have served humanity that's for sure. i prefer the spiritual way, which theoretically takes just a few months to work: samadhi meditation (www.ssy.org). you do this 3 times a day for 15 minutes each time, in a few months you're in samadhi. accelerating the process can be achieved with a sense deparavation tank, e.g. www.samadhitank.com.


your thoughts?

[uqlfy]

Check out an article on this subject. It sums it up pretty
well I think. Since i cant get this site to post a link for some reason
you have to work for it.

http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/

once there go to the category world spiritual traditions. The article
is"inducing altered states" by Sarah Belle Dougherty. Lots of good
reading elsewhere on that site as well.



The use of tanks, chemicals etc is all well and good but you dont
really learn anything. If you cant use your mind to block out phsyical
sensation then you havent really gained control of your mind have you?
Short cuts are OK. The problem is that sometimes by avoiding real work
to gain insight you miss out on valuble tools to understand insights.

[yuval]

uqlfy: i'm gonna read that article now, just wanted to comment on what you said.


avoiding work is only good if you still gain the benefits. work as a principle is a protestant thing. i'm not into that. now i am not talking about shortcuts that leave you dependant on aids. i am simply talking about the path of least resistance (to enlightenement). some paths, like bhakti yoga, "the path of devotion", take years and years to achieve the mystical experience - and nothing is promised. some paths, like yoga, are more technical and you can more or less measure your progress - that is why yoga is often called a science. which it is not. but it's a good enough system to pursue methodically.


now i will explain a bit about why a sense deprivation tank is good.


a tank will get you FASTER into the mystical experience state, where your "samadhi meditation" skills are greatly improved and so it will be RELATIVELY EASY to retain. for an untrained person getting the mind stabilized enough to do proper samadhi meditation that gets youto the mystical state is much more difficult! it's more difficult to meditate and you need to meditate MUCH MORE - the ssy system(www.ssy.org) suggests 3 daily 15 minutes meditations.


example: a friend of mine did regular samadhi meditation (the SSY technique) and got into the mystical experience state. after 10 months of meditation, he only required doing 3 daily 15 minutes meditations TWICE A WEEK to remain in the state.


there is a very famous book you might have heard of, called "autobiography of a yogi" by yogananda. he describes the two types of samadhi: the mystical experience state and the meditational state. i will repeat in my own words because it is often misunderstood and it's so important to anyone involved in serious spiritual pursuits, in any path, drugs included.


one type is the one you get into in meditation. it's called "sabikalpa samadhi" (sometimes spelled "savikalpa samadhi"). in this state you don't have any thoughts. since a thought is defined as a "fluctuation in the level of the mind", this means you are not aware of anything. what remains? in my experience, the awarenss itself, that is a sense of existence, remain. pure consciousness, without attachment to form. the fact that awareness can exist in pure form, that the thoughts narrative is not everything we are, has become common knowldge these days - it is summed up nicely in the first chapter of "the power of now" by eckhart tolle, which i can't praise too highly. i think it is a must read, groundbreakingbook. and an approximation of the thoughtless state is exceedingly easy to realize it in meditation. even beginners can empty their minds for all of two seconds. what remains is the awareness itself. it is a subjective feeling of stillness. the void.


what surprised me when i got into this state is that your emotional state doesn't disappear with the thoughts. you feel intense happiness and tranquility. this i didn't find in the literature. turns out this is something basic. anyway.


the second type of samadhi is the mystical experience, the ego dissolution you get on psychedelics. it's termed "nirbikalpa samadhi" or "nirvikalpa samadhi". it's an optimized cognitive version of humans. i've cross-posted some of what i've wrote in this thread on the kundalini-support.com forums. it's a nice discussion, i've wrote some stuff there that i left out here on the nature of the cognitive "optimization" that people in the ego-less state attain:


http://kundalini-support.com/forums/...php?t=3959&amp ;sid=c8d8532b99783b1b80e1b376dd683dfa


so to conclude a tank can get you faster into the mystical experience state, where you meditate better because your mind is already quieted down significantly and where you only need to do a moderate amount of meditation.


with kundalini, or full-blown enlightenment rather than just the cognitive component, it is a more complex story - but there are shortcuts there as well. lets say getting into the mystical experience state is the first milestone. then you can do initiation into reiki tummo (indonesian reiki), it has very deep effects on the chakras. then you can do maha yoga initiation, which is 3 full days of shaktipat, or energy touch (there's one NY based guru), and you can ampuku, which is japanese abdominal massage, and you can do liver/kidney stone cleanses for the digestive system, and you can do trigger point massage which is the hot thing in physiotherapy - trigger points can account for neurological kundalini accidents so this is important, and cranio-sacral therapy / cranial therapy (recommended read: chapter 2 of "spontanious healing" by andrew weil), and acupuncture or better still shiatsu to balance the meridians (shiatsu is a massage so it also works on the channels, not only on the energy centers like acupunture) and finally you can take up yoga, esp. iyengar yoga if you have postural problems. the best ("ultimate" really)kundalini yoga textbook, whichyou will need at this VERY LATE stage would be "theories of the chakras" by hiroshi motoyama.


got carried away there.


your thoughts?

[Solidly-here]

Never doubting your actions


I live in a state, where (normally) I am second-guessing my feelings and thoughts. Most people live in this state. The BIG difference is: Howmuch second-guessing?


I have read that a human's natural mental/emotional/spiritual state is Enlightenment. This state of mind has been defined in many diverse ways, but I believe (at the base) it refers to not spending a lot of time picking-away at myself. A baby, for instance, does not spend a lot of time debating his hunger (didn't I just eat an hour ago?), OR feel guilty for waking his Mom up 3 times last night, OR worry a lot about why there is all this poop in his diapers. So, maybe babies are enlightened beings. But, soon thereafter (as he begins to explore this new world), the confusion-maker begins to be heard: NO! This begins to occur at an increased rate: NO! NO! NO!


If I could (at a few month's old) understand the reason behind hearing this word over-and-over, it would be better. Don't touch this (why?); don't do that (Huh? I've done that before, now it's not OK?). The hearing of this brings up confusion, especially when at certain times something is OK, and at other times it isn't.


There are many people in the world who are almost totally self-obsessed. They see what they want, and what they think, as most of their world. They have no compassion for others, in fact, do not care about the feelings of others.


Self-obsessed people have a much-easier life (in some ways) than the rest of us. It is easier not to second-guess, if there is no pulling of my heart for the needs of another person.


For my whole life, I lived in the opposite direction. Most of my time was directed at others: Am I fully considering their feelings? Am I about to do something which MIGHT hurt his feelings? Last week, when I did [fill in the blank], did I hurt her feelings?


Although this is my native feeling, over the last few years I have taught myself to Let Go of some of my second-guessing. Part of this process is forgiving myself. Even when I am clearly focused on helping someone, in a particular way ... I am not perfect. Therefore, I always come up short from my goal: To do it perfectly.


So, I needed to distance myself from feeling the need to be perfect (after all, I am just human, NOT super-human). The main problem with striving for perfection is: I then grade myself, a "D" if I am not perfect, and a "C" if I come tantalizingly close to it. I have graded myself into preventing me from feeling like I deserve an "A" ... this is the main reason I began to work at being kinder to myself.


Although now I have trained myself to do it more-or-less automatically, this process has been difficult. First, since this feeling (I did not do it well enough) comes up quite a bit, I must practice my response (God, please for forgive me ... ME, please forgive me) several times a day. Each time, the guilt flows. If I quickly Let Go of my guilt, then it turns off, and I can get right back to the job of living without second-guessing THAT particular thing.


Second, part of the problem is that I do not know exactly how the other person has been affected by what I have done. So this adds another layer ... uncertainty. So, now (if I need to) I will forgive myself for all of the unknown things which may be happening because of my imperfection. If I can Let Go of this layer of confusion (only there because I care about other people ... the best of intentions), then I can focus on being a fun companion.


Anyway, because there are self-obsessed people out there, who think nothing of running rough-shod over anyone else's feelings, I can use a little bit of their lack-of-notice to help me. They do not notice (or care) if someone is slighted; therefore, no need to second guess. I live my life mindful of Big mistakes (and many small mistakes). Now, I can feel that I'm living an OK-enough life. If she does not tell me that I did something wrong, then I can believe (or pretend) that I did not do anything wrong (or wrong enough to beat myself up for).


Being stuck at either end of this continuum (absolutely feeling responsible for ANY possible hurt feeling ... or uncaring about the result to others of everything you do) is a spiritually weak position.


So, I work at spending most of my time in the Middle. I push myself away from my natural place (unbound empathy and compassion), and float toward the Middle (each person is entitled to feel what they want about me and my actions; I will not do intentional things to harm them, emotionally or spiritually). This allows me to feel a lot of compassion, without drowning in it.

[yuval]

Solidly-here: very nice!


it echoes some of my own thoughts about people who are not fully developed. rather than self-centered, i was thinking pure simplicity. someone who travelledin bolivia, really one of the most backward countries,told me in rural areas therepeople have the vibe of animals. my interpretation is that being simple, they don't have a lot of internal conflict.


the way i see it, just my take on things, is that you can have no conflict also as a fully developed human - "cognitively enlightened", from birth or from yoga or from drugs. i know some of the people i suspect to be "special" in this way since birth, who don't change their vibe whenever they're with different people. before i began meditating i was like a chameleon, adapting my very personality to please people around me! and when i tripped hard, everything was clear and harmonious. but it didn't make me self centered, on the contrary compassion is there and i knew how to interact with people just right to make them feel good - and still i felt iwas beingauthentic and never second-guessing. it's just this transcendant state, you know?


it's nothing like anything i've ever experienced, and it got me to this forum where i'm writing my 18th post in a week's time...





uqlfy: last note about kundalini, one other practice that i think is significant is rolfing, it's a massage that separates the muscles from the fascia, the transparent membrane that envelopes them (you can see it in chicken when you eat them). muscles are generally stuck to one side of the fascia because of bad muscle habits and bad posture. it's a 10 treatment series going over your whole body, nostrils included... but it should come together with corrective yoga, so your posture doen't make the muscle stick to one side again.

[Solidly-here]

Simplicity ... find it when you can


There are times when my mind "co-operates" with me, when it allows me to be completely absorbed in what I am doing. At this time, my whole life is simple.


I can become absorbed into something pleasurable (a deep discussion, playing a game, a powerful scene in a movie). This gives me hope that I can become this way in other situations too.


Another source of this simplicity is away from people. I stand at the beach, here comes a wave; this wave is my best friend; it comes closer and closer, rising each second. It breaks, it crashes, it races up the sand toward me. It foams, it stops; part of it sinks into the sand; the rest of it goes back into the ocean. That wave is gone, forever. Life is impermanent. Fortunately, many of his friends will come to visit me too. As I watch this infinite ocean, I can feel completely centered, not shaken by the part of my life where there is striving. This second, all of my life is watching these waves (a deep and complete relationship with this wave ... and then this wave). My life (at this very second) is simple. I am paying attention to this, and the rest of the world is gone. As I concentrate more and more, my life is simple; there is only one thing ... this; there is no need to say (yeah, but what about this); there is NO this.


I go to the hills and hike. I begin where there are people and their equipment (cars, goodies). Soon, the rest of the world is gone; it is just me, as far as I can see. There is no one who can be injured by anything I do. A purity of purpose comes. Then (from time to time) I drop off of the world of concerns, and into my personal kingdom of wonder and excitement.


As these magic moments come (and then go), it helps me to realize that the only reason that most of life is NOT magic moments, is that I am the one who is grading them. Part of my practice is to appreciate more-and-more of what life has). In this way, I return to a simpler time ... like a baby. As my thoughts come closer to just being grateful to be alive at this second, I approach that Enlightened state.


Enlightenment is not just a one-time, you-get-it-or-not get-it experience. It comes in small ways, in enlightened activities. As I feel the wonder of a wave, and get lost in it; as I listen to my best friend, and the meaning shines through my mind; watch a beautiful sunset, and know that this is a miracle, this is enlightened. There does not need to be a huge block in front of me (i.e., this is not enough; Enlightenment needs to be Bigger).I create my view of what is enough (so, if I choose to feel it ... nothing is enough). Fortunately, though, I look at life as it is occurring in front of me. I expect to feel an enlightened thought from time to time. Then, I DO feel an enlightened thought. WOW! Thank you (or, thank me).


When that sledgehammer of full Enlightenment eventually does hit (if ever), part of the miracle is looking at all the times (seconds, minutes) when I appreciated the magic moments of my life.


So, I might as well act as if I have already been Enlightened, then if I feel it coming (as a freight train) I will not fear it.


In the mean-time, I am in charge of what I do. Each morning I could decide to do any of 100 things. Somehow, I decide what I will be doing today. This gives me the power to be grateful for what I do(what am I doing, why am I doing this; of all the things in the world, I am doing this now). This helps me to feel better about what I do. I can gripe about doing things I don't want to be doing ... but, I am the one who has decided to do it (for whatever reason).

[uqlfy]

Live what life gives.Die what death comes. Yuval your knowledge of yoga is obviously well refined. With it you possess a tool others lack. Now what can you do with it? I mean to what end does a wiseman use his enlightenment? Being that he has reached the top of the mountain does he return to the base to tell others of the view? Or does he guide others on their way?


Also Yuval you may find some intrest in chaos magick. It is all about doing what works and cutting extra work for the sake of work.

[Hyperreal]

Some drugs more than other tend to give me a feeling of having it all figured out. Ecstasy creates this feeling almost without fail; mushrooms give the opposite - insane, hilariousconfusion. Acid is more variable. There will usually be a point in an acid trip when I feel I have it all figured out, but it depends who I'm with. If the people I'm with can come up with things to keep me challenged intellectually, then I don't usually won't feel that.


I'm very wary of the ascetic desire for simplicity. It tends to lead to dismissal of all that is not simple. A lot of the time, the longing for simplicity is merely fear of something one can't understand.


As to the question of how to use one's powers, I think someone who is truly strong can create his own goals for himself.

[uqlfy]

Originally Posted by Hyperreal

I'm very wary of the ascetic desire for simplicity. It tends to lead
to dismissal of all that is not simple. A lot of the time, the longing
for simplicity is merely fear of something one can't understand.


As to the question of how to use one's powers, I think someone who is truly strong can create his own goals for himself.

There is strength in simplicity. Dismissing what is too complex to
understand easily is often from fear yes, but i dont understand how the
desire for simplicity leads to dismissal of what is not? Could you
elaborate a bit?

Only someone who is strong can create their own goals, I think all too
often people go about their lives living for goals that others have set
for them without even realizing it.

The purpose of life ,I believe, is to find your own reason for living and follow wherever it may lead.

[Hyperreal]

Originally Posted by uqlfy

but i dont understand how the desire for simplicity leads to dismissal of what is not? Could you elaborate a bit?

I'm not saying that desire for simplicity necessarily leads to rejection of the complex, but it can if taken too far. I had in mind the sort of simple-lifers who reject society and modernity and insist that things would be better if we'd all go live in trees and never wash. Examples of this belief being carried too far would be technophobia orChristian Puritanism. Edited by: Hyperreal

[uqlfy]

Ahh you mean like the Amish. Or republicans.

[yuval]

Originally Posted by uqlfy

With it you possess a tool others lack. Now what can you do with it? I mean to what end does a wiseman use his enlightenment? Being that he has reached the top of the mountain does he return to the base to tell others of the view? Or does he guide others on their way?

well, when you've grounded yourself in the enlightened/nirbikalpa samadhi/mystical state, you cando what you like, i guess. i'm not there yet. IMHO it would depend on your life situation and on your character and outlook on life.


if one achieved the ultimate mental balance associated with this state (which people who have this cognitive skill set from birth seem to have generally missed out on, for whatever reason), then one won't mind doing anything and everything - so being of service to others would be a natural choice, i would think. i know some guy who has raised his kundalini in tantra sex 6 years ago when he was 20. he now studies children art education. he can get people out of bad trips, btw, when he sees someone having a bad one at a nature trance music party he dances with them for a couple of minutes, and they sense his equilibrium vibe and straighten out.


cheers


y

[yuval]

another of what happens when you "get it"


---------------------------


eckhart tolle describes what happened to him when he became enlightened in the introduction to "the power of now":


for a few years he was super-happy. sitting on park benches was enough for him.


then slowly and naturally he came out of it into a spiritual teacher career.


-y