Drug info - Complete beginner: Where to start?

[IThink42]

Swim is a complete beginner in the sense of drug-use, however is familiar with meditatively induced altered states of consciousness.

He does not smoke cannabis or tobacco, and does not drink alcohol.

He wishes however to bring on an altered state of mind in the aim of becoming closer to the true nature of reality and himself. His purposes are purely spiritual and he is not looking to get 'high' for the sake of only feeling high.

If you could recommend where to begin - what natural psychoactives are best for beginners and what should he take into account?

he has came accross these Psychedelic plants: mescaline cacti, Kratom, Iboga, Calea, Blue lotus, Ephedra, Sinicuichi, Betel nut, Nightshades, Kava, Datura, etc.

What do you think? I suppose he's looking for a soft to mild psychedelic/psychoactive experience.

Thanks in advance.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good job for bringing your drug questions to the forum and doing research! I wish you all the best.

[SmokeRings]

SWIM would personally suggest Mushrooms using the parameters you listed in your post. SWIM has had some of the best breakthroughs with personal issues, demons, whatever while on shrooms.

Most recently a few weeks ago. SWIM had been battling a major bout of depression that had lasted for about 3 months, after her trip, SWIM literally felt like a new person, worked the shit out in her head and has felt great since.

Mushrooms weren't on OPs list, but they are natural, so they fall within OPs guidelines. SWIM doesn't have any experience w/anything you listed, sorry. Mushrooms generally are considered pretty mild, as far as length of trip and connectivity to reality. Granted, for SWIM, she generally is in her own head for a good 2 hours and is not aware of reality, but to SWIM, that is a relatively short timespan compared to a lot of other psychedelics.

If OP chooses this route, SWIM has found the best method of injestion for her is by melting chocolate, grinding the mushrooms with a coffee grinder and adding, then letting set. SWIM generally does 1-2g, but isn't educated enough to offer a dose suggestions to OP.

Cheers.

[Potter]

First off, you should start by going back and reading the rules, you know the ones you had 5 minutes to read during your sign up. Then you can send a message to a moderator and ask them to correct your self incrimination.

Considering the list of plants you've got, it's a safe bet you haven't read about any of them, or you wouldn't have included nightshades. You need to do some serious research. Here and Erowid are good starts, Dale Pendell's Pharmako/ series is probably the best source out there. Go to your library and see what they have, you'd be surprised what you can find, you may need to ask for the closed stacks or behind the desk.

This is a decision you need to make for your self, and it needs to be an informed one. Half of what you listed are not psychedelic, basic search engine work would have explained that.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but this isn't a realm of study to blindly walk into. Nor is it one you should be relying on strangers, or even friends to educate you on. Andrew Weil, Dale Pendell, Richard Schultes, Albert Hoffman, these guys have good information and legit science, get their books, read them, then come back and talk shop. To do otherwise would be foolish, and fools don't last long on the path of poisons.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Not sure its a good idea to kind of put someone down for asking questions about drugs on a drug forum.

[SmokeRings]

Potter - agreed that the OP needs to do research, but SWIM would think that it has to start somewhere. SWIM agrees with almost everything you said, except SWIM thinks that the OP admitting being a newb and asking questions is where learning begins.

Forums for a lot of folks are a new thing and it is unfortunate that most don't take the time to read the rules and maybe lurk for a while before posting. SWIM thinks age and/or newness to a forum is a huge factor.

SWIM remembers how excited she was when she found DF, as she had no idea it existed, she however works in the IT field and was familiar w/forums and knew she needed to figure out the rules and such before doing anything.

SWIM has yet to post a thread, as she always finds a thread to chime in on! SWIM doesn't think we should discourage newbs, not asking questions is where people get in trouble, those of us who know why forums exist, know they are generally meant to give helpful info, suggestions and advice. Not just to tell someone what they did wrong. At least SWIM thinks so!

SWIM has found that there are all types here, so is not saying this to bash, as she completely understands where you are coming from. SWIM may be a little too nice because she worries that harsh words to a newb could possibly scare them off and they don't get themselves educated and end up donig something really stupid and dangerous.

SWIM thought before finding DF that she was pretty knowledgeable about drugs and quickly learned that she wasn't as educated as she thought. DF has been a helpful tool on many levels for SWIM, even after over 15 years of experimentation and use. SWIM is always happy to welcome and newb and answer their questions if she can. People ask questions because they are seeking answers.

Members owe it to this community to guide, but SWIM thinks a more positive push in the right direction is a much better way to go. If SWIM had the same reception when joining, she doubts she'd stick around. Lucky for her, she had enough knowledge prior to probably be fine. The OP doesn't sound like they know much about anything, and could greatly benefit from DF, and as you pointed out, their list wasn't exactly accurate.

To the OP, please feel free to keep asking questions, but SWIM would suggest doing searches for the things you are interested in, read other posts and "lurk" as they call it (being here, but not participating by posting or adding to threads) before jumping in as you did. There is nothing wrong w/it, other than a lot of info is already out there. It tends to be a forum no-no in any type of forum to just post something without searching first and always read the rules, SWIM didn't notice that OP self incriminated and that indeed is very irresponsible. Rules are there for a reason, and the no self incrimination one in particular is designed to protect you.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good perspective to add.

[Sushi]

Alf seconds that, there are no "wrong" questions - so good job young lady that SWIY starts with asking questions, doing research and reading in general. These can do SWIY no harm.

Just remember the most general rule - there are no safe psychoactive substances. Ingesting some of them can be risky in one way or the other, some are very dangerous and some are plain deadly. Learn on them as much as SWIY can and learn how to reduce risks SWIY is taking. Better be cautious and proceed slowly than be very sorry. Or dead.

So as to SWIY's list of plants - first step would be removing Nightshades and Datura. These are good only when reading about them. Or watching them grow. Read as much as you wish, but stay away from them.

As to psychedelic mushrooms - in Alf's most humble opinion these are not best as a point of entry into the realm of psychoactives, for young people especially. But he refuses to tell which substance could be good for SWIY to start with. Because none of them is safe, most reasonable answer should probably be "don't do any of them". So, this is the question SWIY must answer for SWIYself. After broadening SWIY's knowledge of psychoactives and of SWIYself.

[SmokeRings]

Thanks Sushi, SWIM is glad to know that you feel the same! So important to help, not hurt a noob.

SWIM is curious as to why SWIY wouldn't suggest mushrooms? For SWIM, this has always been the most mild and thinks it's safe to say most folks she knows would agree. OP wanted opinions on psychedelics in particular. Is SWIY saying they don't recommend them at all, or just to start w/something else (if so, what would that be) to enter into the world of drugs?

SWIM wouldn't recommend a psychedelic for a first time drug experience, but only did so as that was the OPs question. SWIM now realizes she should have stated that. Now she has!

Psychedelics aren't for everyone, but OP seemed to be able to clearly state why they picked these and seemed to have a grasp on the ideal behind the use of them.

[Potter]

If some one came to the internet and asked "I heard you can make fireworks with the following chemicals ... where do I start?" and that list contained a number of things that even professionals don't touch, then a responders first thought would be "this person hasn't a clue what they are doing and are going to blow them selves up."

I really feel that research needs to start with books. If a person isn't willing to put the effort to do the physical work to get your hands on peer reviewed, primary sources, then it's not likely that their going to do it later on.

For someone with no comprehension of what they are getting into, the internet, message boards especially, are a dangerous short cut. We have no background on this person, and even "generally safe advice" may not take into account all the factors, such as undisclosed mental illness. For some god awful reason, people will take internet advice at face value, or even gospel truth, as reckless as that can be.

Would like to point out, I did list a number of highly respected resources that contain well tested advice and information. That is a legit answer.

Had the question been "I'm new the this whole topic, where do I start?" My advice would be much the same. Read a book, read a book, read a mutha fuckin' book! Take the time to ingest it and think it all over, make an informed decision, don't rely on others to do so for you.

[Sushi]

Exactly, "undisclosed mental illness" or a latent psychotic process was main contraindication for ingesting powerful psychedelic substance Alf had in mind while saying no to mushrooms (schizophrenia afflicts young people predominantly). Now, Madlab agrees with all your points Potter - books go first, don't trust everything you read on the Internet, and forums especially, but...

Alf thinks SWIY is a bit too harsh on IThink42 - just check the header of this sub-forum, it says "Ethnobotanicals (Natural drugs) Psychedelic plants, mescaline cacti, Kratom, Iboga, Calea, Blue lotus, Ephedra, Sinicuichi, Betel nut, Nightshades, Kava, Datura, etc." SWI IThink42 just copied-pasted this into SWIHer post. It really doesn't make SWIHer someone who has zero clue on subject matter, it was rather intended to get the discussion going. And SWIher succeeded. Also, Madlab thinks that our combined effort provided IThink42 with basic necessary pointers, warnings and advice so far - and credit goes to this Internet forum.
And now, Madlab and Alf would like to join you in this captivating chant: "Read a book, read a book, read a mutha fuckin book!"

[SmokeRings]

Potter - SWIM supposes she feels that there is a new era, a new age, where people under 25 or so do NOT read books, libraries are foreign to them, the Internet IS their library.
SWIM completely agrees that believing everything on the Internet and forums can be dangerous, she can also only hope that the one seeking the knowledge is smart enough to double check information. And what makes a book the absolute truth? There are plenty of books that the OP could pick up that would be just as misleading as anything found on the internet.
SWIM does doubt if the OP is young (and suspects they are) that they are going to pick up a book, it's just not the way of their world, youth of today is a generation of Technology.
Times are changing, it's a fact. To deny this to SWIM, is quite possibly a very dangerous thing. Newspapers are closing their doors, magazines, and book printing levels are at all all time low, as people seek the same information from the Internet. Not only can they get the exact same print as a book they buy at a bookstore, but they get it cheaper. This is a fact. Technology has made it both dangerous and extremely avantageous all at the same time.
SWIMs hope is that people like both her as well as you (one who does give sources and such) are on these forums to help the OP, her only issue was that you could have scared them off (which since they haven't come back, SWIM could be right) which to SWIM is very negative.
Forums are created to give people info, music forums, drug forums, animal lover forums, you name it. Forums are communities and should welcome new people and help them, not scold them.

[wtfdustinwtf]

Its all a matter of swiy choice. Research on experiences of substances is needed,. .requierd, no matter how experinced someone is reaserch b4 someone takes it. SWIM thinks that SWIY should try the less intense ones first, kratom kava kava(oppinion) etc. Everyones body acts differntly to differnt substances. If its SWIY first time make sure there is a friend who is sober as a sitter

[Sushi]

@SmokeRings
Sad but true, this is what has been worrying Alf and Madlab for a past few days, that we scared off young user looking for advice... If SWIY says SWIHer has not shown here since then,well, we may have fu*ked this 1 up and this saddens my buddies even more.

[helikophis]

My advice to any potential new users considering starting on drugs is simple: "don't." Chances are that you aren't going to find what you're looking for. They aren't going to get you any closer to the true nature of reality; however they may cause discomfort, legal troubles, social exclusion, health problems, or death.

Drugs are an interesting shortcut and a fantastic diversion, but they aren't going to get you anywhere spiritually that you can't go without them. And they carry a heavy burden. Drugs are sort of like the rent-to-own path to spirituality - buy the sofa now and pay for it later. It's nice for right now, but you'll keep paying for it long after the sofa is tattered and stained. You've made it this far without them. Keep up your meditation. It's harder work but you'll be better off for it in the end.

Also, why did you take the short list of examples off the ethnobotanical forum and put it in your post as though that's not what it was? Strange way to behave in my opinion.

[Potter]

If people today are too stupid to read books, if it is not "their way" then a POX ON THEM! Sorry, but just because such things are "out of style" does not give people an excuse. Would you like it if your doctor pulled that one on you? "Oh I just checked on Yahoo!answers, books are so last year, you've got herpes!" This attitude is destroying America. This is the reason why we rank second only to Turkey in people who think don't understand evolution. Take a look at Yahoo answers or youtube for that matter, take a good long look at how ignorant, this aversion to book learning, has made our country.

I made my answer quite clear, that if you are interested in drugs, you NEED to read, and I gave a good list of smart authors to begin with. I in no way told them, not to ask questions, just that such questions were best tackled with primary source material.

Had the OP asked for any more clarification on ANY point made in this thread, I'd have been more then glad to share information or answer any further questions. The fact that they never attempted to do so, reinforces my point, that they wanted the easy way out (though I still harbor thin hope they are currently sequestered in a library)

Drugs teach harsh lessons with a steep learning curve. While it is possible to find teachers to hold your hand along the way, the internet is hardly that teacher. Those who do not enter this realm of study prepared to put in the necessary work, crash and burn in a most spectacular manner. It would be ill advised to let any stranger feel they are ready to walk this path with what little information we can transmit here.