Setting - tripping in a death camp

[shanesmith7]

swim may be going to europe in a few months where he will surely visit a concentration camp. not to belittle anyones death (swim had a grandfather that managed to escape one), but swim and swims female swiy are probably going to drop acid pas tthe gates. do you think we could have a historical experience?

Reputation Comments on this post:

	dumb idea. tourture and lsd? no.
	Although this is not a popular opionion. I thought your post about LSD in a death camp was great. I say go for it.. but ...
	This provoked an interesting and informative debate.

[podge]

As for historical trip, im not quite sure what that means.

But if there is anywhere on the planet that may have some lingering bad vibes swim would put "Death camps" or "concentration camps" as the number 1 likely candidate. Swiy might end up with a greater appreciation of human life or something else quite profound as a result - but swim thinks the set and setting may be a bad call on this. Even having a good trip may be a bit insensitive to other people visiting at the same time - potentially laughing and giggling around people who may be visiting the places where there ancestors were executed might be dodgy.

If swiy is already out deep in the european country side then why not just go tripping out in the countryside free from death camps and away from all bad variables associated with them.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good, sane and respectful advice
	Well thought-out and insightful post.

[old hippie 56]

Swim made the bad mistake of tripping with friends in a old funeral home, one of the worst trips in his life. Still send shivers down his spine. Probably not on the scale of a death camp, but still a site that is full of death and bad memories.

[aerozeppelin123]

Originally Posted by shanesmith7

swim may be going to europe in a few months where he will surely visit a concentration camp. not to belittle anyones death (swim had a grandfather that managed to escape one), but swim and swims female swiy are probably going to drop acid pas tthe gates. do you think we could have a historical experience?

That sounds like the worst possible choice of setting you could make to SWIM. Recipe for disaster if you ask him. Just go out somewhere in the countryside another time and do it then!

[Songcycle67]

This is the stupidest question I've ever seen. What do you think? I mean after all the studies and information you've come across on set and setting what do you think?

Not only is this a horrible idea it's a stupid question.

[Bajeda]

Visiting former concentration camps can be an emotional enough experience that one really doesn't need to use psychoactives to make it any more intense. The multimedia presentations that can be found in some are chilling and disturbing enough on their own that they can put one into a temporary depressed state of mind. You really don't need to intensify this effect a great amount, and probably don't want to either. I agree with podge, just go find an idyllic countryside setting and appreciate the beauty.

[Lethargy]

...

If SWIY does do it, against all advice (ours included) then please do a trip report, assuming SWIY makes it out with psyche intact.

SWIM wouldn't do it. Our PEF wouldn't do it. Our stoner friend looked at us like we had grown another head when we asked what he thought. General consensus... find someplace better.

[waytoofertile]

That would be pure insanity, actually it could end that way. You cannot begin to comprehend the energy of those places. To do it on LSD is like saying hmmmmmmm"Oh yoo hoo, any pissed off spirits around? Wanna come fuck with my head, hey maybe you could try and push my soul over a bit and inhabit MY body for awhile and we can get some murderous vengence!!" Not cool. What happened there was so horrific, so brutal and terrifying the imprint is scarred there forever. Plus the ones who didn't escape and their loved ones deserve the respect of a solemn visit and genuine grief, not a gigglefest in a gas chamber, man. And I am trying to say all of this as nicely but seriously as possible. No one wants a bad trip and that is the minimum you would get for the trouble.

[Songcycle67]

To the person who gave me a negative rep for my opinion on this matter, as it pertains to the validity of the question: I don't really think that's what the rep system is for. Telling other people that you don't agree with their posts.

The fact is that this is a very stupid question, and I've answered some doozies in my day. Moral factors aside, the most brief glance at any book about the LSD experience would tell even the most mentally handicapped person that this is an awful idea.

I just think that the question (whether the OP had been asking to trip in a death camp or a roller rink or during a tour at NASA) mixed with such a horrific setting were an attempt at attention/debate rather than an honest question of any worth to either the OP or other users on this forum.

It doesn't impress me that you listen to dimmu borgir or go to graveyards and drop acid.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Addressing reputation issues publicly is bad form; report the negative rep to the appropariate moderator.

[Potter]

If there are family members with you, would you really be able to explain to them why you needed to leave if something went wrong?

And it's not like there aren't millions of other historical locations on that continent that would be more conducive to such activities. Go where you can have fun, or at least having fun would be acceptable. Really a concentration camp seems like one of the few tourist places to be doing LSD.

What exactly are you looking for? The bad tripp to end all tripps? To relive history? Public freak out followed by arrest and front page headlines? Define "historical tripp"

[shanesmith7]

swim honesty means no disrespect and he is himself a product of a survivor escaping one of those disgusting camps. swim sees psychedelics as a way to experience something beyond what swiys can interpret with normal conscious senses. swim believes experiencing the pain, hope, and life that those victims suffered would be unlike anything else he might ever find.

[Frond]

Originally Posted by songcycle67

To the person who gave me a negative rep for my opinion on this matter, as it pertains to the validity of the question: I don't really think that's what the rep system is for. Telling other people that you don't agree with their posts.

The fact is that this is a very stupid question, and I've answered some doozies in my day. Moral factors aside, the most brief glance at any book about the LSD experience would tell even the most mentally handicapped person that this is an awful idea.

I just think that the question (whether the OP had been asking to trip in a death camp or a roller rink or during a tour at NASA) mixed with such a horrific setting were an attempt at attention/debate rather than an honest question of any worth to either the OP or other users on this forum.

It doesn't impress me that you listen to dimmu borgir or go to graveyards and drop acid.

Report the reputation. What they did is flaming via the rep system, and it's against the rules as misuse of the reputation system. Though I probably don't have to tell you this

Originally Posted by shanesmith7

swim honesty means no disrespect and he is himself a product of a survivor escaping one of those disgusting camps. swim sees psychedelics as a way to experience something beyond what swiys can interpret with normal conscious senses. swim believes experiencing the pain, hope, and life that those victims suffered would be unlike anything else he might ever find.

If this is a serious question, then here's the plain and simple answer: if SWIY does something like this, expect him to be psychologically scarred for life, and very likely arrested from having a psychotic break during the experience.

LSD is not a toy. It's a powerful tool, and even though it is physically one of the safest drugs known, it is possible to harm oneself with it in the wrong environment. A death camp is about as wrong an environment as it is possible to get, and having a bad trip of this magnitude on purpose, in a public environment no less, is about as smart as shooting yourself because you've never experienced being shot before.

It's SWIY's choice of course, but I have to say this again: if he does this, he's headed for the Darwin Award.

[ATWA]

I think it is a great idea. Why the fuck not? Give swim'self the acid test. I see no reason not to do it if the swimmers want to and are sane. Who knows where it will lead? maybe to a good place? Maybe not.. What the hell. I mean what the hell?

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

Originally Posted by shanesmith7

swim honesty means no disrespect and he is himself a product of a survivor escaping one of those disgusting camps. swim sees psychedelics as a way to experience something beyond what swiys can interpret with normal conscious senses. swim believes experiencing the pain, hope, and life that those victims suffered would be unlike anything else he might ever find.

In swim's unhumble opinion most of the stuff people say about LSD allowing you to "experience something beyond" or any of that rhetorical hippie jargon is either just an excuse to get high or they are deluding themselves. Swim thinks that psychedelics can be used for those transcendental purposes, but that it requires serious thought and effort. Not just going to a place like a death camp and expecting the drug to do the rest.

Originally Posted by ATWA

I think it is a great idea. Why the fuck not? Give swim'self the acid test. I see no reason not to do it if the swimmers want to and are sane. Who knows where it will lead? maybe to a good place? Maybe not.. What the hell. I mean what the hell?

swim feels like he agrees with this, and as long as you (shanesmith7) understand the implications of "maybe to a good place? Maybe not..", then the choice is yours. Swim will say, however, that he wouldn't do it unless he found himself with nothing to live or to stay sane for.

[Frond]

Originally Posted by Joe-(5-HTP)

Iswim feels like he agrees with this, and as long as you understand the implications of "maybe to a good place? Maybe not..", shanesmith7, then the choice is yours.

See, there is a problem with this logic. Normally, I would agree and say "yes, it's your brain, do whatever the hell you want" and leave it at that. But LSD is an illegal drug. If someone takes it to have a bad trip in a public place on purpose, and ends up being arrested, then this will very likely attract the attention of authorities. There will be a newspaper story, the local police will put LSD on the agenda, and there will be a crackdown on people that might otherwise get away with it - ALL because of one reckless decision.

The OP's friend's psychological health is not the only thing at stake here. Drug users in today's world cannot afford to be selfish. They have to have responsibility towards their peers if they want the political environment to change.

[Sushi]

Death camps are scattered throughout Alf's country, so he visited some of them. He doesn't know which one SWIY is going to visit but even the smaller death factories are deeply disturbing, emotionally exhausting places. Alf's advice is: do SWIYs LSD after a trip to such a museum. Unless SWIYs heart is made of stone, what SWIY will see there will be so shocking that it will undoubtly return to haunt SWIYs LSD trip, especially if SWIY is going to ponder on it. It will even probably haunt SWIY for the rest of SWIYs life for that matter. Alf knows, it seems like all this happened ages ago but those places are well kept and evocative - it was just 60 years ago in fact.

[ATWA]

swim feels like he agrees with this, and as long as you (shanesmith7) understand the implications of "maybe to a good place? Maybe not..", then the choice is yours. Swim will say, however, that he wouldn't do it unless he found himself with nothing to live or to stay sane for.

I am sorry that Swim seems to have such a fear of going insane. Walking a tight rope Swim? As far as Swim's comment on "hippy jargon" it would seem that Swim only understands psychedelics didactically and not with great personal depth. But the truth is relative to that that it usually takes decades to do that usually. To put all things together.

[sunyata]

Originally Posted by shanesmith7

swim believes experiencing the pain, hope, and life that those victims suffered would be unlike anything else he might ever find.

Indeed. And why would swiy want that? The people who went through those things and survived were damaged beyond anything any of us can fathom, and you want to experience that as if it was a ride on a scary rollercoaster?
Most likely, the bad trip you have will not be from experiencing anything close to what the victims did, but rather experiencing your own insensitivity by doing something so inappropriate.

[Routemaster Flash]

Originally Posted by shanesmith7

swim may be going to europe in a few months where he will surely visit a concentration camp. not to belittle anyones death (swim had a grandfather that managed to escape one), but swim and swims female swiy are probably going to drop acid pas tthe gates. do you think we could have a historical experience?

Do it. If you survive with your sanity intact, and manage not to kill yourself or simply drop dead from horror and grief, there will be NOTHING you won't be able to deal with for the rest of your life, I reckon.

Also, take an MP3 player and listen to some Throbbing Gristle while you're there.

[yaba]

Good luck to you !!
Please tell us the experience as swim is curios and wouldn't advice it, but...

Friends of swim used to go to attraction parks (the efteling) in Holland on acid and loved it !!

When swim asked them, is it safe ? They said: There are no warning sings that say don't take any LSD on this ride. Swim thought that was funny...

And swim would like to experience acid at strange places....

[ATWA]

Many many years ago Swim had his first exposure to psychedelics. It was with mescaline. This was in the early 1970s. It was mescaline that was made from cacti and very strong and Swim took way too much. He did not realize how long mescaline takes to come on. So Swim started to have a very "bad" trip. He was only 13 or 14. But anyway everyone in the house was asleep and Swim was watching TV and he was very upset. But this was back in the day when our TV was black and white and there were only 3 channels. No cable then.

So Swim is curled up in this chair and all crying and stuff. Then comes on this movie about this war and all the people are in the medical ward for soldiers screaming with legs cut off and suffering and dying. Then a giant purple octopus was on the other side of the glass door to the room. Swim was psychotic. Swim was crying and got the family Newfoundland dog and brought it in and lay down with it and was hugging the dog on the floor and crying holding the big dog real close.

For a number of years Swim was afraid to sleep with the lights off and moved from his 3rd floor bedroom to a room on the second floor. Swim's parents could not figure out why he was so afraid but let him. And Swim saw all kinds of halos and stuff in the dark. Swim would cry in his mind and say "When will Swim ever be normal again?". And Swim stopped taking any drugs with his friends and they were very much not understanding why Swim who was normally a big druggie has stopped.

But all in all Swim is glad that this happened to him. A couple of years later Swim went back to drugs with vengeance. Taking it to the limit. But that was a terrible night. A horrible night. But I am glad it happened because Swim has always been a horrible person. A terrible defect and just plane rotten in every way. He should never have been born and deserves all he gets. So I think that it was good that Swim suffered like this. He deserved it. Even at that age he deserved it. In fact Swim thinks it would have been beneficial to Swim'self and the world if Swim would have just run in front of a car that night. But at least Swim got some punishment that night for his defective self. He has always been a piece of crap and good for nothing.

So Swim thinks he got something out of the experience and thinks that all things work for good when confronting the mind. Things build character. Swim is unclear why so many people think drug experiences should be "happy" or upbeat. Sometimes our greatest learning comes from adversity. Like now Swim is a better person than he used to be and that is because of terrible things that have happened in his life like his child having severe brain damage and Swim having heart failure, kidney failure and diabetes. Swim deserves these things and is better because of them.

So having terrible horrible trips may not be a bad thing in the long run. I mean why do people think life is supposed to be positive and happy? And we learn from horrible experiences. So why not learn in a more controlled manner at the death camp?

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

Originally Posted by Frond

See, there is a problem with this logic. Normally, I would agree and say "yes, it's your brain, do whatever the hell you want" and leave it at that. But LSD is an illegal drug. If someone takes it to have a bad trip in a public place on purpose, and ends up being arrested, then this will very likely attract the attention of authorities. There will be a newspaper story, the local police will put LSD on the agenda, and there will be a crackdown on people that might otherwise get away with it - ALL because of one reckless decision.

The OP's friend's psychological health is not the only thing at stake here. Drug users in today's world cannot afford to be selfish. They have to have responsibility towards their peers if they want the political environment to change.

Indeed, if shanesmith7 wants the political environment to change then he should not do it. swim personally feels like there is not point spending your whole life trying to make the world a better place because even if you achieve it your life will be spent and you wont be able to live it in that way you spent so long fighting for. Different ideals...

Originally Posted by ATWA

I am sorry that Swim seems to have such a fear of going insane. Walking a tight rope Swim?

Swim's close friend recently had a psychotic break due to a bad acid trip so he is paranoid about this at the moment, yes.

Originally Posted by ATWA

As far as Swim's comment on "hippy jargon" it would seem that Swim only understands psychedelics didactically and not with great personal depth. But the truth is relative to that that it usually takes decades to do that usually. To put all things together.

I understand that they can be used in a transcendental way like i described, but that some if not most people adopt hippie ideals as an excuse to get high or to avoid responsibility and so on. swim wasn't talking about his own experience with psychedelics which is, of course, very deep .

Originally Posted by ATWA

So having terrible horrible trips may not be a bad thing in the long run. I mean why do people think life is supposed to be positive and happy? And we learn from horrible experiences. So why not learn in a more controlled manner at the death camp?

Indeed. You might be benefitted, you might not... understand the risk factors and make your choice.

[ATWA]

I understand that they can be used in a transcendental way like i described, but that some if not most people adopt hippie ideals as an excuse to get high or to avoid responsibility and so on. swim wasn't talking about his own experience with psychedelics which is, of course, very deep .

Swiy. Regardless of intention you kind of do not have a choice as to whether they effect you in what you call "transcendental" ways. They always do. The question is at what point you realize that they did.

And don't knock the hippy lifestyle Swim. Some of us who are/were "hippies" may even have doctorates in a variety of subjects not exclusive of operating on your young and inquisitive brain should you have the unfortunate luck of the draw of contracting an astrocytoma or be shot in a drive by attack while skipping from organic chemistry class to the lunchroom to meet a young lass with a firm tight ass and nipples that get hard when she gets a little cold as she is accustomed the climate of Miami Florida.

Reputation Comments on this post:

A profound and informative response.

[Mona Lisa]

There is a time and place for everything.

[Routemaster Flash]

Originally Posted by Mona Lisa

There is a time and place for everything.

Wot, even death camps?

(j/k)