Side effects - Cannabis Psychosis

[Junkhead23]

What are SWIY thoughts on this and do SWIY know anyone that has suffered schizophrenia, severe paranoia through Marijuana?

[klonopinz]

Swim doesn't know for sure, but for the 2 real serious instances swim has witnessed, both weren't because of the weed, but because they were persons with undiagnosed mental illness. Weed was actually a tool for the psychiatrist to re-induce the state in one of the patients (crazy panic attacks upon smoking) in a safe place and understand the severity (and the reason) of his problem.

It's still very uncommon to have atypical symptoms, but if swiy do, it's because something is not right, so*in part* thank that MJ for the heads up!

[Nature Boy]

Cannabis psychosis strikes me as an over-stated and over-reported phenomenon. A state of psychosis is quite severe, far worse than a state of typical anxiety. Certain individuals may experience it but it appears to be quite rare. SWIM has smoked for years, knows many people who smoke and no-one's ever gotten psychosis. Whiteys, yes. A drop in blood sugar level, yes. But psychosis, no.

[Herbal Healer 019]

Me thinks that the media is trying to find a link between using cannabis & schizophrenia as well as other psychotic illnesses 2 further demonize cannabis in an attempt to decrease cannabis use & expirementation among otherwise non-users. Various scientific studies have determined that heavy marijuana use during adolescence (a time when the brain is not fully developed) causes a certain part of the brain to not function as well (the part of the brain that is responsible for language).

So basicly, the media & the gov't are trying to find a link between schizophrenia and cannabis use given the fact that schizophrenia affects the same part of the brain that heavy marijuana use during adolescence has been determined to impair (but with shizophrenia the impairment is much more severe & affects almost the entire brain, unlike marijuana) to make their propoganda more credible.

Reputation Comments on this post:

This is a pretty interesting post... I had no idea. Thanks for sharing that.

[klonopinz]

Swims friend (one of the 2 he has seen) took 2 bongs hits (his 3rd time, first time hitting a bong though) and after 5 minutes he suddenly started sweating and screaming and then ran up and down his street in his underwear (250lbs... not a pretty sight, and something he would NEVER do). After 20 mins, he ran back and then proceeded to slam the complex entrance metal door against a wall until it broke because he didn't know how to use the key to open his apartment door, and then finally punched his cellphone into pieces trying to call 911 (cutting his hand in the process) right before the EMS came.

Swim thinks that it had something to do with placebo or maybe hypersensitivity, because this person is very hypochondriac and no one else had these effects while smoking the same bud. ER docs gave him an IV benzodiazepine (midazolam), and was observed for 72 hours. Same thing happened next time he smoked, this time under a safe & controlled environment (so paranoia was ruled out by the doc dunno why). Swim believes he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder with schizophrenic tendencies but doesn't know details. But weed didn't cause it.

[Herbal Healer 019]

Yea klonopins, those symptoms definatley dont occur in the vast majority of pot smokers. The fact that he was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder with schizophrenic tendancies most likely had every thing to do with it.

[klonopinz]

Originally Posted by Herbal Healer 019

Yea klonopins, those symptoms definatley dont occur in the vast majority of pot smokers. The fact that he was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder with schizophrenic tendancies most likely had every thing to do with it.

Indeed. Swims point was that his friend had never shown any symptoms (28 year old) and these only became evident (the psychosis specially) the first (with swim and friends) and second (with doc) times he did smoke. What Swim means is, at least in his experience, weed (ab)use is not the cause of the symptoms/illness, but rather a trigger that exposes underlying issues. My friend didn't have any health problems after and didn't require further treatment during a month of observation/tests in a psych ward and upon release a promise (complete with random drug tests) of not doing illegal drugs and trimester visits. He doesn't do any so it wasn't a problem for him, and hasn't had any problems since. Swim believes he just had a paradoxical effect, drug induced psychosis and/or extreme akathisia, because no treatment was given for the official "diagnosis" by the doc... but swim isn't a doc yet so it's just an opinion.

[Junkhead23]

Well SWIM knows someone who has suffered with extreme psychosis due to smoking too much cannabis. It only happens to 10% of the population. He was saying that people were taking photographs of him and was just supremely paranoid all the time. In the end he slit his wrists and was taking into mental hospital and was released 6 months later. Even when he came out he wasn't really properly better. Now he has stopped smoking though he is absolutely fine. This condition isn't made up believe SWIM and it isn't a nice thing to see happen to a friend.

Cannabis psychosis is not propaganda. A lot of things are made up but this is not one of them.

Also paranoia and anxiety do effect a lot of people after using marijuana for a number of years.

This is one thing that annoys SWIM the most about propaganda about drugs because it makes people question the real dangers too.

[scratchblack]

SWIM totally agrees. HE smoked weed for 7 years most days. HE stopped not long ago because his head was in a mess due to alot of other drugs HE took with it. now every time he have a a few drags on weed it fucks him up and he get paranoid and dont like the feeling. SWIM feel like it picks his personality up and throws it out the window

[cybergenesis]

Well you people can believe all you want that cannabis causes psychosis, but their is still not any hard evidence.

This reminds me of the story of this girl i knew. She had smoked cannabis for over 10 years, went psychotic and the stupid doctor in her hospital told her she was a "classic case" of marijuana psychosis. Seems clear cut doesn't it? What she didn't tell the doctor is one month before the FIRST time she ever went psychotic she started smoking ICE every day and hadn't basically slept for 4 weeks. She told me she just told the doctor about the pot because everyone smokes pot and she could get arrested for smoking meth. Also she didn't want her mum to find out.

I'm sorry I'm not going to accept some anonymous person on here reassurance that they have seen PROOF merijuana causes psychosis, when i have seen hundreds of people smoke it and that never happen. I mean my ex bestfriend would swears to me he has seen jesus heal incurable medical conditions, but i dont believe him either.

As for "long term" marijuana users suddenly turning psychotic? Can you assurre me they never did any other drugs? mushrooms, lsd, speed?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good point, in my view, about peripheral factors including use of other substances in *drug psychosis*

[scratchblack]

Originally Posted by cybergenesis

Well you people can believe all you want that cannabis causes psychosis, but their is still not any hard evidence.

As for "long term" marijuana users suddenly turning psychotic? Can you assurre me they never did any other drugs? mushrooms, lsd, speed?

Some guy replied to that with...

"Ermmm no hard evidence??? I just told you about how weed affects me after smoking it heavy for years?????

And yes I did do alot of other drugs and maybe is the reason for starting it all but I dont anymore and only do speed now and again. I dont get phycosis off speed but do with weed."

Reputation Comments on this post:

Your post defies logic, I'm sorry, it certainly doesn't constitute evidence your experience alone.

[jdouglas6]

Originally Posted by cybergenesis

Well you people can believe all you want that cannabis causes psychosis, but their is still not any hard evidence.

SWIM said,
"I bloody had a phsychosis attack. i heard crazy shit in my head thought i died.
i was fucked up for months. didnt smoke weed again till recently.
now im taking concerta for add and im pretty sure i have anxiety issues.
physchosis is real. so dont even say it isnt.
i got super fucked from it,. had "depersonalitization" or some shit with it aswell.

Pschosis happends when u have a build up of thc and then when u smoke agaain. it opens a flood gate. after 3 years of smoking pot. i had a 2 gram bong hoot. first time i get high. opened my mind and i got fucked. first time i get stoned after 3 years. scary shit. i didnt no what happend.

but i get high now. and its better. but still kinda iffy."

Originally Posted by duG22

dude swim tripped out just readin that (hes on morning glory/lsa). did you write that yourself? its exactly what swim thinks.

life is kinda harder when swim isnt on drugs now. but when swim trips he understands EXACTLY why he is the way he is, why his brain does the stuff it does. so trippy man

thanks for those words

SWIM fucking too

Reputation Comments on this post:

	flaming and name calling is forbidden. he isn't even saying psychosis isn't real, he's just saying cannabis doesn't caus...
	Please do not launch personal attacks on other members on the basis of disagreement, and please do not post self-incrimi...

[Cryptic Concoction]

The first poster you responded to did not purport that psychosis does not exist; he/she asserted that there exists no hard evidence for a causal link between cannabis use and psychosis. Ergo, in order to refute his/her affirmation, you must provide evidence substantiating your claim that cannabis can cause psychosis.

Anecdotal reports do not constitute valid submissions of evidence, because they cannot be objectively verified. To assume the validity of your argument is to implicitly assume both the veracity of your report and the rigor and validity of your analysis of the event. Because neither can be assumed under the constraints of the available information, more evidence is required to substantiate your claim.

In order to provide that the psychosis you experienced was directly caused by cannabis use, you must perform analysis under conditions wherein variables are controlled. The fact of a correlation between events does not imply causation.

Please furnish evidence of your affirmation that psychosis can be induced by a "build-up of THC."

[Junkhead23]

Believe what you want. It happens to 10% of the population and it has been proved. SWIM knows lots of pot smokers too and only one of them has been affected by this. Also heavy consumption of cannabis is needed and it may well be that the person had a future underlying mental illness. All SWIM knows is that the cannabis can bring this underlying psychosis/schizophrenia out. It has been proved that cannabis worsens psychosis but they cannot prove that cannabis is the sole cause of the psychosis as most subjects use other things like ecstasy and so on. The guy SWIM knows only ever took ecstasy and was the heaviest smoker he ever knew. This guy smoked an ounce every day. He stopped talking to people and when he did talk just kinda mumbled.

He was usually too busy packing his bong. Anyway like SWIM said he only ever took XTC and even that was only a few times. He loved marijuana and that was his downfall. Also cannabis psychosis while it is thought to effect 10% of the population it will only effect these 10% if the consumption of cannabis is large and daily

If SWIY are such a experienced toker then you must have seen some people experience severe paranoia etc? If SWIY haven't then SWIY ain't been smoking anywhere near as long as SWIM

[sunyata]

Originally Posted by Junkhead23

Believe what you want. It happens to 10% of the population and it has been proved.

Can you please post a source for this? 10% seems like a lot.

Not trying to dismiss the issue before I see relevant documentation, but if 10% of all weed smokers get psychotic there would surely be more of them among swims aquaintances.
And if it only affects 10% if they smoke massive amounts, how was this number proven, did they find some pot smokers and make them smoke more than usual and then see who freaked out?

Reputation Comments on this post:

I agree with this - good point. 10% does seem too much - I would certainly know more "psychos" too.

[humdroid]

The borg have a friend who's brother got this.
They dont know his age, but thinks it was in the twenties or thirties.

The theory that fits best with Y is rooted in the blockage of dreams.
Psychosis is an overspill of the unconscious mind, into the conscious mind.
Dreams are natures way of trying to integrate the two levels of consciousness. This is why dream work, as in dream diaries are theraputic.

Cannabis is known to inhibit the dreaming state, so Y guesses, that logically, this is why the psychotic episodes happen.

Y thinks the schizophrenia is a media myth.
Yes, the psychotic episodes resemble schizophrenic psychosis, but so do the speed psychotic episodes, again, caused by too many hours awake, and the unconscious mind/dreamstate, spilling over into normal waking consciousness.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good hypothesis, makes sense, but is Cann. known to inhibit dreams?
	good theory. many say cannabis inhibits dreaming, and swim agrees
	Very interesting post, although SWIM still dreams...

[readeadamie]

Prior to Christmas SWIM used to smoke a half ounce of homegrown (usually half B-52, half Blue Cheese) a week aswell as 7 bags of Spice. SWIM did not realise Spice contained cannabinoids at the time and once he did he could see why he was starting to develop symptoms of psychosis. I thought my friends were plotting against me and SWIM was having occasional hallucinations (mad paranoid ones). SWIM stopped smoking everything and the symptoms cleared within 2-3 weeks. SWIM's fine now. SWIM limits himself to 1-2 bags of Spice (the new ones) a week. He believes that cannabis psychosis definitely exists but is not as dangerous as the media makes it out to be. From SWIM's experience it is easily reversed by a period of abstinence, and perhaps preventable by choosing to smoke balanced, CBD rich strains. Another one of SWIM's friends experience psychotic symptoms from overuse of cannabis and was hospitalized for two weeks (he was in a sorry state) but has now fully recovered (doesn't smoke anymore though). If SWIY doesn't believe in cannabis psychoses then smoke more weed, it will come... eventually.

[Cryptic Concoction]

Anecdotal "support" does not of itself constitute evidence of any purported phenomenon. Furthermore, even if the anecdote is veracious in so far as the purported event occurred, its use in establishing the causality of an observed phenomenon is severely limited by uncontrolled variables.

Moreover, without thorough scientific and medical analysis, I don't think that any person here is qualified in attempting to "diagnose" the cause of observed psychosis in a given subject. To dismiss cannabis as a potential factor, or to isolate it as the sole cause of psychosis without rigorous examination, would be to ignore the intricate web of variables involved in mental conditions.

[Junkhead23]

There really is no talking to some. Even talking to someone who has experienced it they still don't believe. Your just as bad as the anti drug people.

[Cryptic Concoction]

Again, Junkhead, you have presented no evidence to substantiate the veracity of your stories. You have cited no sources for your statistics. When you furnish evidence beyond mere anecdotal claims, I may be more open to your argument.

Your isolated, unproven anecdotal claim does of itself constitute evidence of the phenomenon you purport to exist. These are basic principles of logical reasoning.

I'm sorry, but I won't fall to the credulousness that is required to openly embrace unproven affirmations simply because you claim that they are true. I see nothing to indicate that you are a reputable source. Assumption of the validity of your claims requires an assumption of your honesty. Your argument is predicated on "good faith."

Moreover, from your post it seems that you did not understand my argument. I never asserted that cannabis-induced psychosis isn't a genuinely experienced phenomenon, nor did I affirm that it is. I simply stated that your anecdotal claim is not verifiable, and therefore not submittable as valid evidence.

[Junkhead23]

Here SWIY go then

http://priory.com/psych/cannabis.htm

What Pacman was saying was that people will not believe that this exists even when presented with evidence. The fact is that most cannabis users use other drugs as well so it cannot really be proven. Also because it only effects a select few most believe it simply does not exist. Pacman was using his friend as an example as he knows that all he ever did was cannabis and very very sparingly ecstasy.

All pacman knows is that he got much better through not smoking cannabis.

Pacman is all for legalizing all drugs but there are things about drugs that are bad. What pacman meant was it seems some have a complete bias towards drugs and refuse to accept ill effects which in itself is not a good thing.

Just because it hasn't happened to one of SWIYs does not mean it does not happen at all

Cannabis does not cause schizophrenia in it self it rather brings it out in those predisposed to it for whatever reason. I seems pacman got the percentage wrong and it is only 1-2 % of the population but Pacman never really trusts these kind of esimates

[nibble]

Do people that report psychosis and schizophrenia actually know what those conditions are? Being in a true psychotic state is something very serious and you would really not be able to carry on any sort of normal existence if you were periodically experiencing psychotic episodes. Anxiety and paranoia are not psychotic states, they could be components of such a condition but in themselves they are not psychosis. Hallucinations, paranoid delusions, grandiose ideology would all be components of psychosis. There are lots of pseudo-scientific theories being postulated here but to be frank they are mostly without any foundation. What actually causes psychosis like conditions is highly debatable, there are numerous different theories including those involving imbalances in the functioning of different neurotransmitters but no theory is conclusive. There are probably many, many factors that cause these conditions and isolating a single element is largely pointless.

Junkhead23, you talk about a guy that smoked an entire ounce of cannabis per day - that is frankly ridiculous consumption, I don't even know how one would afford or even carry out such a habit. Surely he would have to be smoking all day to get through that much and could hardly have a job that would pay enough simultaneously? And yet what "symptoms" you describe are still not psychosis of any kind.
If someone who has a serious psychological condition takes any consciousness altering substance is it really surprising that they may have a bad reaction? That would go for any drug, not just cannabis.

[Will21st]

Originally Posted by Junkhead23

Here SWIY go then

Have you actually read the link??

Quote:

The drug induced psychosis seen when Cannabis is the main substance being abused is distinct phenomenologically from other psychosis.
It is unusual for such a psychosis to occur without other drugs being involved to some extent and so it is difficult to tease out the differences between the effects of Cannabis and other drugs.

[Junkhead23]

He was taken into a mental hospital for his own safety after gashing his wrists open. He never had depression before that. Pacman is talking about soapbar and that is how much he used to use.

Everyone seems to be saying where is the proof. Show me some proof that it does not exist.

I don't know his full symptoms it wasn't me who had it and he hasn't talked about it much.

There was no reporting of psychosis from him he got took away by the men in white coats after his family were so worried about him.

You don't 'report' psychosis or schizophrenia. It is something that is diagnosed by someone else. A person is not aware that they are suffering from schizophrenia. SWIY clearly do not know what SWIY are talking about when it comes to mental health.

He told me some of the things which were happening to him much longer after he had left the mental hospital such as people taking photos etc.

These are classic paranoid delusions. He basically got worse and worse over a period of years. It was only at the very end that the more serious symptoms show. The early symptoms he has was that he always had his eyes kind of half closed, didn't talk much and when he did he mumbled. He was a shadow of his former self. He doesn't take cannabis anymore and he is much better.

Pacman isn't going to argue anymore and wishes he hadn't mentioned it.

Just because it hasn't happened to someone SWIY know doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[sunyata]

Originally Posted by Junkhead23

Pacman is talking about soapbar and that is how much he used to use.

Ah, but soapbar usually contains a large ratio of binders and adulterants that are quite toxic. Smoking such a quantity for a long time would probably lead to a lot of health issues.

Considering there is very little cannabis resin, if any, in soapbar swim finds it unlikely that pacmans friends psychosis was triggered by it. It may have, but it may also have been triggered by a nasty interaction between some of the chemicals in the soapbar and the xtc he took. Or by some toxic effect from the soapbar chemicals themselves.

Soapbar is shit, don't smoke it. Ever.