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  #1  
Old 20-02-2009, 08:16
3dfunk 3dfunk is offline
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Suboxone as Pain Relief?

So about five years ago, my monkey Albert was building a deck on the back of my house when he fell on his back. Bruised up some ribs and stuff pretty good but nothing broken. For the next few years he would have pretty nasty spasms about every four months in which he would get a short script for Percocets or a cortizone injection. Both worked fine.

6 months ago, Albert was rear ended in an auto accident that seriously aggrivated the old injury to the point of being chronic. Worst days he would have to take 6 or 7 percocets...good days only a couple. But last month, Al's doc told him last month that he was going to refer him to a pain-management center.

I took Albert there this morning where he was told by the docs that they were going to switch him to Saboxine for the relief of pain. Anytime that Albert has ran out of Percocet, he has only experienced pain. No sickness, vomiting, sweats...nothing but just pain.

After doing much research, Al can't seem to find much about the drug being used for pain relief...just withdraw from the Percs.

So...is Al being duped by the docs 'cause they just think he's addicted or is Saboxine truely usefull for the relief of pain?
  #2  
Old 20-02-2009, 10:44
wikidlicka wikidlicka is offline
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Re: Saboxine as Pain Relief?

Subonoxe is used to treat opiate dependency. They say it's for pain, but no it never cured mine. It barley worked for my opiate addiction. Looks like your buddy's doctor noticed or became aware that he started to have a dependency for percocets. That's weird that pain management gave him subonoxe. With correct paperwork and MRI's and all that, a pain management clinic should have prescribed him the correct meds. Have him go in again and tell them it is not working. Or just find anohter pain management center. Theres a ton of them. Are you from florida by any chance?
  #3  
Old 20-02-2009, 15:59
Dickon Dickon is offline
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Re: Saboxine as Pain Relief?

I'm assuming you're talking about Suboxone. This is buprenorphine and naloxone and is mostly used to treat opiate addiction. That said buprenorphine is used as a fairly strong pain killer. It was, and probably still is, marketed as Temgesic 0.2mg sublingual tablets. These are a tenth as strong as the 2mg suboxone tablets and a fourtieth as strong as an 8mg suboxone (the mgs refering to the buprenorphine dose).

Dickon
  #4  
Old 20-02-2009, 18:22
3dfunk 3dfunk is offline
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Re: Saboxine as Pain Relief?

Thanks Dickon...that's it.
  #5  
Old 20-02-2009, 20:01
RoboCodeine7610 RoboCodeine7610 is offline
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Re: Saboxine as Pain Relief?

Even though it is mostly used for opiate dependency, it might be that the doctors are trying to get you something with a long half-life since your pain is chronic.If they wanted to detox you, they would have probably told you already. Robo
  #6  
Old 25-02-2009, 22:55
3dfunk 3dfunk is offline
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Re: Suboxone as Pain Relief?

So I take Albert to the doc yesterday to start his Suboxone. No problems. Took it three times yesterday and was ok. Got up this morning and took it at 6:30 and followed that by the next dose at 2:30. As the day has progresses, Al has gotten sicker and sicker. Very dizzy and lightheaded, cold sweats, headache, nausious. Headache was so bad I have to give him a couple of Alieve. Within 5 minutes, Al was bent over a toilet throwing up...something he hasn't done since he was a kid!

Found a piece of gum to try and get rid of the dry-mouth...two minutes later, throwing up again.

Al is officially at the "WTF" point! Thought he was supposed to experience these symptoms if he were going through withdraw from opiates...not starting something new.
  #7  
Old 26-02-2009, 01:54
RoboCodeine7610 RoboCodeine7610 is offline
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Re: Suboxone as Pain Relief?

Well the obvious question:Are you sure it's Suboxone?If it is then those are probably side effects from the drug.All opiates cause dizziness and nausea,not sure about the headache though.It might have been a random headache, who knows.Just tell your doctor about it,if it happened to you he's probably heard it too many times before.

By the way, if suboxone has such a long half-life, why would he tell you to take it 3 times a day?It might be that the dose from that day, combined with the dose from the previous day caused all those side effects.

Robo
  #8  
Old 26-02-2009, 02:50
Herbal Healer 019 Herbal Healer 019 is offline
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Re: Suboxone as Pain Relief?

SWIM can say from personal experience (recreationally) that suboxone is a great pain killer & can get you high, unlike what so many others say. The first time SWIM did it, it blew his mind; He'd compare it to what he'd suppose heroin would feel like (only having tried tramadol, codeine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, & morphine)...

Buprenorphine (the opiate in the brand named pill-Suboxone, Subutex) is 20-30x as strong as morphine, so yes it will help with pain management.

Please note that the oral bioavailability (amount of said dose that will be absorbed into the blood) of this drug sux ass being only 22%, sublingually being 30%. The best way to administer this pill to get the most out of it is rectally (90-100% bioavailability) or intranasally (75%), but always take a much lower dose (1-3mg depending on tolerence) when administering buprenorphine this way, because ODing on Bup, although not fatal, is hell on earth...
  #9  
Old 26-02-2009, 04:16
3dfunk 3dfunk is offline
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Re: Suboxone as Pain Relief?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboCodeine7610 View Post
Well the obvious question:Are you sure it's Suboxone?If it is then those are probably side effects from the drug.All opiates cause dizziness and nausea,not sure about the headache though.It might have been a random headache, who knows.Just tell your doctor about it,if it happened to you he's probably heard it too many times before.

By the way, if suboxone has such a long half-life, why would he tell you to take it 3 times a day?It might be that the dose from that day, combined with the dose from the previous day caused all those side effects.

Robo
It's definately Suboxone. Headache's are one thing the nurse mentioned to me the day of the start. I got in touch with someone from the docs office and they suggested taking phenegran 30 minutes prior to the suboxone then taking the suboxone whole rather than disoving under the tongue.

I was surprised with the dosage in relation to the half-life too. I'm just really skeptical about this. Almost as if they're trying to get my monkey hooked on this stuff.
  #10  
Old 26-02-2009, 14:40
RoboCodeine7610 RoboCodeine7610 is offline
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Re: Suboxone as Pain Relief?

Quote:
Please note that the oral bioavailability (amount of said dose that will be absorbed into the blood) of this drug sux ass being only 22%, sublingually being 30%. The best way to administer this pill to get the most out of it is rectally (90-100% bioavailability) or intranasally (75%), but always take a much lower dose (1-3mg depending on tolerence) when administering buprenorphine this way, because ODing on Bup, although not fatal, is hell on earth...
But I though most buprenorphine preparations contain naloxone, an opioid antagonist.It is inactive orally but they add it to prevent people from injecting.So wouldn't snorting or taking it rectally make the naloxone active?

It's definately Suboxone. Headache's are one thing the nurse mentioned to me the day of the start. I got in touch with someone from the docs office and they suggested taking phenegran 30 minutes prior to the suboxone then taking the suboxone whole rather than disoving under the tongue.

Quote:
I was surprised with the dosage in relation to the half-life too. I'm just really skeptical about this. Almost as if they're trying to get my monkey hooked on this stuff.
Well, give it a try.If it doesn't work out for you then just tell your doctor yoiu wanna switch period.Or even better, go to a different doctor, that way you'll have two different prescriptions.
  #11  
Old 26-02-2009, 23:18
3dfunk 3dfunk is offline
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Re: Suboxone as Pain Relief?

Well...today has gone much better. Took the tabs orally rather than sublingually, as suggested by the nurse. Don't know if that's the solution to the sickness or if the system is just getting used to it.

Either way, I don't see the benefit of two prescriptions as Al's not getting any recreational benefit.
  #12  
Old 26-02-2009, 23:47
mortenmannen mortenmannen is offline
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Re: Suboxone as Pain Relief?

Quote:
But I though most buprenorphine preparations contain naloxone, an opioid antagonist.It is inactive orally but they add it to prevent people from injecting.So wouldn't snorting or taking it rectally make the naloxone active?
Dont know how its in the us, but here in europe, buprenorphine only containing products are generally more used (because of the sideeffects naloxene gives).
the naloxen is active to some extent however you take it, but its not there to prevent people from shooting it (as the bup has a greater affinity to the opiate receptors than naloxene and would take its place anyway).
If taken subL about 10-20% is absorbed (naloxene).

the adverse effects 3dfunc describes are exactly why buprenorphine only products are mostly used here.

Bup has a very long half-life indeed, but naloxones half-life is about 45 minutes. Maybe thats why he must dose three times a day?

Id deffinatly _demand_ to switch to subutex (bup only), or switch to another dr\clinic.
  #13  
Old 27-02-2009, 00:13
3dfunk 3dfunk is offline
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Re: Suboxone as Pain Relief?

Mortenmannen, I really feel like my monkey is just another primate being churned through a mill on this one.
  #14  
Old 27-02-2009, 00:56
mortenmannen mortenmannen is offline
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Re: Suboxone as Pain Relief?

I didnt see the part where you mentioned recreational benefits
Bupr. has a ceiling effect, so if the dose goes up from a certain point, the effects are not felt.
So if the monkey wants a buzz, bup is def not the way to go!
  #15  
Old 27-02-2009, 01:05
3dfunk 3dfunk is offline
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Re: Suboxone as Pain Relief?

I'm confused...and so is my monkey. I thought Robo was refering to a rec benefit when he said I could get two scripts. So far, I haven't seen a rec benefit.
  #16  
Old 27-02-2009, 04:02
Herbal Healer 019 Herbal Healer 019 is offline
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Re: Suboxone as Pain Relief?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboCodeine7610 View Post
But I though most buprenorphine preparations contain naloxone, an opioid antagonist.It is inactive orally but they add it to prevent people from injecting.So wouldn't snorting or taking it rectally make the naloxone active?
The nalaxone is inactive at the low dosages that SWIM mentioned...
  #17  
Old 05-03-2009, 06:24
3dfunk 3dfunk is offline
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Re: Suboxone as Pain Relief?

Fortunately Al's doc was smart enough to realize that the side effects were way too prominate to keep him on Suboxone. But now he's thrown everything at my monkey except the kitchen sink.

Mobic, Lyrica, Vitiman D, some kind of lidocane cream, some other combination of lidocane and something else that I get through electro-stimulation pads at physical therapy, vitiman B12 injections...yeah, injections. And not the little allergy-shot needles that are hair thin and half an inch long. No! These needles are an inch and a half long and as big around as a Louisville Slugger! Fortunately though, percocet is on the list as well.
  #18  
Old 18-03-2009, 04:43
Laudaphun Gold member Laudaphun is offline
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Re: Suboxone as Pain Relief?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboCodeine7610 View Post
Well the obvious question:Are you sure it's Suboxone?If it is then those are probably side effects from the drug.All opiates cause dizziness and nausea,not sure about the headache though.It might have been a random headache, who knows.Just tell your doctor about it,if it happened to you he's probably heard it too many times before.

By the way, if suboxone has such a long half-life, why would he tell you to take it 3 times a day?It might be that the dose from that day, combined with the dose from the previous day caused all those side effects.

Robo
Well, this is why it isn't quite as good of a pain killer as one might think. While it's half-life are quite long, the pain killing effects subside in about 6-8 hours. This SWIM read in a pharmacology text and will have to dig up to clear up some other things, but is likely related to the active metabolites of buprenorphine which act on the receptors differently than buprenorphine and are largely responsible for many of it's unique effects. It's active metabolites are actually "partial agonists" of the kappa receptor, while buprenorphine itself is a full fledged antagonist of the kappa receptor. Both bupe and its active metabolites are "partial-agonist" at mu. The kappa receptor is associated with dysphoria as oppposed to euphoria. <remind SWIM to add to this after reviewing pharmacology texts>.

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