help///fent/oc/roxy 3rd try in 2 wks w/no luck...

[twoofus2]

fent/oc/roxy 10+ yrs and I just cant make ot more than a day or so... please encourage... I can just barely type... THE INFO HERE HELPS...

[rhudson]

Can SWIY be more specific about his situation? SWIM is an ex-IV heroin addict (VERY heavy) and may be able to help SWIY quit.

[twoofus2]

swim&swam wears two 100 mcg fents (changed every 48hrs) and rails 45 an up(over 300mgs sometimes) a day of some type of oxy... SWIM AND SWAM are 45 and 41 and both are trying hard to do this on are own as we have tots to tend2...

[rhudson]

Originally Posted by twoofus2

swim&swam wears two 100 mcg fents (changed every 48hrs) and rails 45 an up(over 300mgs sometimes) a day of some type of oxy... SWIM AND SWAM are 45 and 41 and both are trying hard to do this on are own as we have tots to tend2...

There is too much advice for SWIM to relate to SWIY here, so SWIM gave you some of SWIM's contact in a private message. SWIM's basic advice is to taper off as much as SWIY's supply permits, meaning drop the dosage slowly. But that is going to take a lot of will power. Another option is professional help. If SWIY goes that route, SWIM really thinks buprenorphine is by far the best and methadone is quite bad. Also, don't let the doc maintain you on buprenorphine (it is quite addictive too and has a long half-life meaning w/d's last forever). Insist it just be used for a relatively fast detox. There is a lot more advice SWIM can offer but there is justn ot enough room for it here.

Good luck and SWIM is sure that if he was able to kick the habit (IV junk!) SWIY can too.

[twoofus2]

Hey there. Thanks so much for offering to help these poor pitiful smimmers who are about to drown thier lil selves. LOL Theres this long situation that just happened but basically this swimmer lost the patch period. So another dr said no prob well just give ya 6 30s a day and thatll do ya. Well its doing something alright but Im not liking it... altho its all I have to turn to and I do need the pain control for a chronic back pain. How would you suggest we could taper enough or whatever to stop these horrifyingly paralysing w/ds?>?

[rhudson]

Originally Posted by twoofus2

Hey there. Thanks so much for offering to help these poor pitiful smimmers who are about to drown thier lil selves. LOL Theres this long situation that just happened but basically this swimmer lost the patch period. So another dr said no prob well just give ya 6 30s a day and thatll do ya. Well its doing something alright but Im not liking it... altho its all I have to turn to and I do need the pain control for a chronic back pain. How would you suggest we could taper enough or whatever to stop these horrifyingly paralysing w/ds?>?

30's? As in oxycontin? Or is it hydrocodone? Can SWIY tell me what symptoms of w/d he is experiencing and his precise history of usage before the OC (if that's what you got) and how much OC SWIY is using and when? Did SWIY have a script for the fentanyl? Did SWIY's partner too? Also remember SWIM gave you his contact in a private message and it might be easier if you use that. SWIM is sure SWIY can quit if he has something to take the edge off, like he does.

[thebige]

Tapering schedules can be found around the board,check the search engine.........you are bound to find one that you can manage..........
That being said........the best source of willpower can be found by looking at swiys children..........
Not trying to be a ass,but swim has always found it helpful (even if you know what is important,and swim assumes ya do)to be reminded what it is all about,even when swims own problems seem almost to hard to overcome.
As always......goodluck and keep all posted on your progress or setbacks as many here have been-there-done -that and can help tremendously with their sugestions.

[twoofus2]

thebige.....so true and the best reason in the world too... its seems as if when the fent changes came from the dr. it let in enough lite so we could see again...railing pills all day and night is too too much of a roller coaster ride for us midddle age swimmers...lol... as the oc crush is on again...

ya gotta know swam cant believe swim and swam are still doing this shit... 45... damn swam thought (think) swam thinks he is still 20 or so... where does the time go...

twoofus2 added 2 Minutes and 31 Seconds later...

down to less than 100 mgs a day.... its a start...

[thebige]

Hey twoofus2,rhudson suggested a good path to take with the suboxone..........
you two should look into this drug and the best way to use it,it can do wonders by keeping almost all withdrawal symptoms at bay.....easing the switch to living sober.
Swim can only tell you for him the best way was to use it for 5-7 days,tapering the suboxone down to almost nothing by the last day.......and then just deal with reality after that.Your results may vary.........
WARNING------The suboxone can quickly become a orange monster if taken long term for maintenence.....making the other drugs withdrawal seem almost bearable......take it for what it is.

[rhudson]

Originally Posted by thebige

Hey twoofus2,rhudson suggested a good path to take with the suboxone..........
you two should look into this drug and the best way to use it,it can do wonders by keeping almost all withdrawal symptoms at bay.....easing the switch to living sober.
Swim can only tell you for him the best way was to use it for 5-7 days,tapering the suboxone down to almost nothing by the last day.......and then just deal with reality after that.Your results may vary.........
WARNING------The suboxone can quickly become a orange monster if taken long term for maintenence.....making the other drugs withdrawal seem almost bearable......take it for what it is.

Very very true. Suboxone is a nightmare for maintenance, but is a miracle for tapering.

[twoofus2]

thank you...

and...
"Living Without Regrets is Impossible if you truly have compassion. Learning to accept the mistakes you can't change is hard. Learning how to swallow your pride even harder"

[rhudson]

Originally Posted by twoofus2

thank you...

and...
"Living Without Regrets is Impossible if you truly have compassion. Learning to accept the mistakes you can't change is hard. Learning how to swallow your pride even harder"

How is it going for SWIY?

[Dickon]

I just thought I'd drop by with some encouragement. You both can do it. Now just so we all know is swim the female half, and swam the male half, or is it the other way round?!

My cat recently did this dance, and quit opiates, a fairly large daily dose of methadone. His story is here: Screaming in the night air. Help emotional and technical for methadone withdrawal - Drugs Forum. There are also good threads called "Patient X's story" and "Decent into Oblivion..". It's good to read some success stories, and I cannot underestimate the helpfulness of this site in being able to write my story in real time and receive support from others.

You're not alone, and this is far from a doomed enterprise. You're at 100mg of oxycodone a day? Well that's a really good start. Do you have, between the Oxycontins and the Roxycodone (I think those are the two brand names for Oxycodone you're talking about) the ability to reduce accurately? Oxycontins are round (except for 160mg) and do not split well.

My number one recommendation, pharmacologically speaking, is to get hold of some clonidine. I've written a fairly detailed detox method guide here: A how-to guide to opiate detoxification. I think it's worth a look: at least the relevant parts.

I do not know how the dynamic of two people trying to quit together is going to work. I can't say it would be my number one recipe, especially with children involved. My cat needed residential treatment when he first cleaned up. He did subsequent detoxes in the wide world, using NA (Narcotics Anonymous, the 12-step fellowship for recovering addicts) for support one time. I'll add that I'm not currently "in" NA, but I'm not rabidly against it as some are. I am in their sense totally abstinent: i.e. I don't drink or use any drugs (other than caffeine), and I would recommend that too, at least for a while, once you quit. I don't know what's available for those trying to quit in the US. But it's worth researching. A lot of the problems of addiction are due to low self-esteem and social isolation, as well as simply the physical dependency. One thing you probably do know, but may not have thought about, is that w.d.s are always worse when you're naval gazing. If you're up and about, doing something (it doesn't have to be physical: just talking to someone, having a coffee with a friend, walking) you feel much better, despite the idea of doing something often seeming appalling. For me, just writing on here had the same effect. I didn't just write about drugs, simply anything and everything. I figured, and I still contend that the "recovery and addiction" section on here can fulfill no higher purpose than be an aid to those wanting to quit. If that means being filled with posts on stamp collecting, horse riding, farming, postmodern literary theory etc., by those trying to ride out those hours of agony, then I'm all for it! It's good to talk. Honest [I can here that chorus of "Oh, Dickon, do shut up, per-lease!!!!!"]

One really odd experience I had a while ago, was meditating in full-on withdrawals. Strangely it worked, and calmed me down, and made me feel a lot better. I was even able to sit still. It could be worth a try!

Lots of hot baths or saunas. Take some vitamins. See the "how to" for a list of other supplements that might work.

It get's better. A lot better. But, you do have to get over that little matter of the withdrawals. And if you're really angry, and want to abuse your "monkey", go to the "smack the monkey hard thread...". I dare you. I double dare you! You'll have fun. Trust me, as I am so eminently plausible [laughs to self and others!]

Dickon [The man who put the fun into withdrawals]

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great words of wisdom. Wonderful ppl trying to kick it have your wise words and past experience to help guide them thro...

[twoofus2]

ms~swim is 41 5/8" 125lbs and made ready...lol...mr~swam is 45 6/0" 200lbs. swim 200mcg fent & 180 30mg oxys... swam 120 oc 40mgs... all in a pile for the monkey...

wish luck we know we will need it...

twoofus2 added 3 Minutes and 16 Seconds later...

woopseee...

make that 20 100mcg fent patches... all meds listed are a one month supply...

if so lucky...

[oxynomo]

Good luck swimswam.Swims doc had him on a 20% per month taper.It may work if swms have supplies and lots of will power.Swim didn't have the patience and went with aturkey@110mgs oc.Couple days of shit then not so bad.Don't think it would be good with both swms trying that at the same time.Gotta look after little ones right?Swim wishes all the best to yas,as swim is only 48 days no oxy.Again good luck and good decision to get clean.o

[twoofus2]

thanks for the interest Nomo...

well well well...so it went like this. swam was thawing the turky and noticed swim starting that o so familar flopping and dont you know swam started thinking just about an hour or so away was a stock pile of 40s up to this highest bidder... guess who was the lucky winner??? ok so that was the bad news...the good news is the tapper continues as the turkey is back in the fridge. Swam knows he is weak... but the tapper will continue down now to less than 80mgs a day...

[rokman nash]

It takes a strong person to taper off oxy/fent unless someone other than swim is controlling the goods.When my friend Dave stopped turkey he was taking 600-800 mgs of oxy daily along with vics and heroin(and other assorted shit).He had tried tapering countless times without success due to not having anyone to control his junk.Is there anyone other than swim/swam that can control the goods?

Good luck good thoughts

[MarkyMayhem]

Suggestion: In the past, many MANY times before SWIM was ready to get clean permanantly, he had occasion to need to travel, for work or family stuff. Several times even out of the country. SWIM did NOT want to try and smuggle shit, plus he knows that no matter how much dope you bring for X ammount of time, it is ALWAYS gone before X time is up, no matter what. SWIM was terrified of WD while away.

SO - SWIM learned this little trick from some real street level addicts he was friends with. This does work, if you use the method lined out below, you can get through a detox from those type of short half-life opiates with NO pain. You WILL need to have aftercare lined up. Cuz you won't sleep much for...weeks... And you'll crave and want to use, BAD. But you WILL NOT be sick. Sometimes that makes it easier to go back. SWIM got 'clean' this way loads of times and it really works. SWIM even did a stint in a fancy rehab in Florida that used this exact same method on patients there [didn't work for me then, as I was on methadone not H or oxy...]

The methodology is to get some long-lasting / long half-life opiates, either methadone or suboxone. SWIM kicked a MASSIVE china white habit this way multiple times with as little as 80mgs total of methadone. Anyway.... These are consumed for 4 days the minimum level needed to ward of WD, lowering the dose each day. This will do two things. One, it lowers your tolerance over those 4 days so the eventual finish is not so daunting. And Two [this is VERY important] the long half-life of methadone or suboxone lets it build up in your body. The 24 hour half-life means that you will continue to have [for example] methadone in your body for ~ 1 week at active levels after cesation of dosing. Also, the methadone levels will automatically get lower and lower as each half-life passes, continuing your taper even though you are no longer consuming any 'new' opiates. SWIM prefers methadone for this particular detox, as it's easier for him to get a small ammount without having to go to a suboxone doc and spend loads of $$$ for a maintinence program when SWIM really just wants to do a detox. Also Methadone is a full opiate agonist, and will do more for SWIY physically and mentally during the critical first days... But SWIM digresses...

It is VERY VERY hard to attempt a proper taper with short half-life opiates. Your blood levels are just to hard to get consistant.. The up/down/up/down/up/down is not conducive to a strict taper schedule. It's just TO easy to take 'just one more' and the extended length of the taper really takes it's toll on SWIY mentally.

It's also VERY VERY hard to come off of long term use of opiates with long half-lives like methadone and suboxone. If SWIY can get his hands on either, it's really really worth an attempt using the method outlined above. Due to the short ammount of time SWIY will be taking the long half-life opiates, SWIM will not have to endure the dreaded methadone or suboxone withdrawals that everyone talks about...

NOTE: SWIM isn't a doctor. SWIM may be a friggin moron. You might be a moron too, if you take SWIM's advice. Please realize this before even considering taking SWIM's advice. SWIM is however, alive and doing as well as can be expected after 10 years of opiate use and abuse, and has successfully used this method to get clean many times. SWIM's longest clean time [~1.25 years] began this way.

[twoofus2]

Originally Posted by MarkyMayhem

NOTE: SWIM isn't a doctor. SWIM may be a friggin moron. You might be a moron too, if you take SWIM's advice. Please realize this before even considering taking SWIM's advice. SWIM is however, alive and doing as well as can be expected after 10 years of opiate use and abuse, and has successfully used this method to get clean many times. SWIM's longest clean time [~1.25 years] began this way.

I love the laughter and the support. It all does help. Thanks for suggestions but swim cant get the meth or subox or even in detox anywhere for that matter(Ide prob go just to make it easier physically if it were possible) ...has attempted to reel in med help but that was a waste... how else can one obtain these in the us??

Ok I feel like a moron for being all happy about eating...that was a stupid stupid thing to do and my tummys screaming at me for it. I was just relieved to know I felt a lil normal for a few mins. Was another long night. But think unlike the rest of the nights since this hell began swim might have even slept a lil bit...till the eternal min started at 6 am and my belly hates this crap worse than anything else i do believe. The nightmares stink bad. The lethargy is the worst ive ever experienced in my lifetime.

Every part of me is in agony or torture of one sort or another....screams ..WHY does this one thing have to be soooo hard?? After all swims gotten thru before this...and swims been thru some mess let me tell ya and swim does have addictive personality but always knew how b4 to keep it in check, swims smoked for almost 30 yrs, used to love her weed, went thru her drinking binges, heavier stuff from time to time but swim always knew when to NOT like something too much or when to just say no. I could sit in a room while people did thier crack or heroine and just be glad it wasnt me. This is unlike anything else swims been thru and HATING IT TODAY!!

[MarkyMayhem]

My only suggestion regarding methadone / suboxone in the US is in regards to legal methods.

You could go to a methadone clinic, and only go for the first 4 days, SWIM's done that before. Just go to google, type methadone clinic YOUR_CITY_HERE and see what comes of it. Colonial Management Group run clinics usually have no waiting list or anything, you show up on intake day with like $50, do intake and get dosed. In some states they also have suboxone too.
Just make sure you don't get sucked in and keep going to the clinic, if you really want to be totally clean and think you have the stones and the willpower to stay off once you get through detox.

Same suggestion for suboxone. SAMSHA has a suboxone doctor locator online I believe. You can google suboxone physician locator and it'll come up. Suboxone usually is much more expensive, both for the medication itself and for the intake, as it's usually in a private clinic setting with a doctor. Initial visit/consult can cost anywhere from $150 - $500+ This is on the assumption that you will be on suboxone maintinence. Maybe a doc would be willing to work with you if you explained you were just going to do a detox. It's more likely though that they would be unwilling to take you on as a patient...

Some people have been known to sell their take home doses from the methadone clinic. Someone once told me that they would look up methadone clinics in the phonebook when driving trucks cross country, then go to the clinic at dosing hours and either try to buy peoples take home doses or try to get a connect to cop some dope. SWIM is NOT reccomending either of these, he's just heard of other people doing that..

[Alfa]

Please note that normally we delete threads with titles like this. Please write clearly and use descriptive titles.

[twoofus2]

oh Im sorry alfa ...thx for keeping it this long...Swam wrote it when swam hates to type at all lol. Ill try not 2let it happen again

Two

[mule]

good luck guys swim went thru this very recently, went total cold turkey for 7 days had a hiccup but went straight back on cold turkey until was clean

then he bloody relapsed properly after all the effort he put in and all the pain. (hasn't swim done well,need a reward,but this time swim dont wanna get ripped off with street bags so gets weight to save on cost(yea right like that theory works) within days swim rehooked)


so i have got meself on subutex and and am gonna do the fast taper off em. i on 32mg right now moro i'll cut to 24 then 16, 8 ,4,2 off?

[twoofus2]

Originally Posted by mule

good luck guys swim went thru this very recently, went total cold turkey for 7 days had a hiccup but went straight back on cold turkey until was clean

then he bloody relapsed properly after all the effort he put in and all the pain. (hasn't swim done well,need a reward,but this time swim dont wanna get ripped off with street bags so gets weight to save on cost(yea right like that theory works) within days swim rehooked)


so i have got meself on subutex and and am gonna do the fast taper off em. i on 32mg right now moro i'll cut to 24 then 16, 8 ,4,2 off?

Thanks for the encouragement and for all the tips on tapering. Goodluck Mule ,swiy sounds alot like whats going on over here except for the sub part. Swims going to get her refill and try to cut the mgs on own since swims not getting any real help with any other meds. But swim feels empowered w/more info now at least and can therefore be stronger and smarter as smimswams struggle continues...and hunt for helpful aids begins...not giving up...please coninue to advise and encourage.

Thanks so much
"Where theres a will theres a way, keep the way straight and the will strong"

~Two

[rokman nash]

clear your mailbox

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hes very kind, caring and supportive