"What Happens When We Die" by Sam Parnia

[its just a ride]

honestly no living person knows what happens for certain after death if we did then death would have no mystery to it

[Mr.A]

i dont believe anything happens. I believe that people are afraid to accept the fact that when you ie, thats it. So they make up ways to get around it (religion).

I think when you die, thats it, your done.

[Routemaster Flash]

Originally Posted by Mr.A

i dont believe anything happens. I believe that people are afraid to accept the fact that when you ie, thats it. So they make up ways to get around it (religion).

I think when you die, thats it, your done.

This seems by far the most likely scenario to me, too.

[Decstar]

Originally Posted by Mr.A

i dont believe anything happens. I believe that people are afraid to accept the fact that when you ie, thats it. So they make up ways to get around it (religion).

I think when you die, thats it, your done.

I believe that some people won't accept the fact that some people believe in life after death for reason's other than that they are afraid to accept the "fact" that when you die that's it, because they have a superiority complex. I used to be an athiest but now I am a christian, so I have experienced it from both sides of the fence. I used to think what you do. However, I have never been afraid of death either as an atheist or a christian.

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

It's well established that many different people believe different things about death for many different reasons. You have to ask yourself, what is the best way to go about ascertaining 'the truth' of this matter, of any matter? It seems to me that you could easily go and listen to the millions of ideas millions of different people have and you could probably psycho analyse them and guess at their motives for believing that there is life after death, such as being afraid of death, as mentioned above. But what exactly is there to be gained for our aim of discovering 'the truth' from doing so? It seems you have to draw a distinction with this subject, as you must do with many others, between finding out what people think the truth is, and what the truth actually is. For example, once you have recorded all of the different opinions and motives people have, how are you then going to go about deciding which are the best? Just because someone is afraid of death, that doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong when they say there is life after death.

Ultimately, the practise of excluding opinion and motive from a system of knowledge is the practise of objectivity which is best done through science. I know many people state, and rightly so, that science doesn't have 'all the answers' but this is no justification for fabrication. In fact, it either means that science has simply not yet found the answer or that the question itself is somehow illogical and illegitimate; a philosopher once said 'of what we cannot speak, we must remain silent'. Essentially, as I showed before in this thread, existence = physicality. The consciousness exists and is therefore physical so when the brain forms into the chemical composition we call 'dead', and the consciousness ceases to exist physically, we can be certain that the consciousness ceases to exist.

And that is the answer.

[Mr.A]

I know many people state, and rightly so, that science doesn't have 'all the answers' but this is no justification for fabrication. In fact, it either means that science has simply not yet found the answer or that the question itself is somehow illogical and illegitimate

Thats a very very good point

[..L..]

Originally Posted by pinholeburn

I heard this guy on NPR last week and afterward had to read his book, which I managed to do and ended up reading it almost non-stop in one day.

All I can say, as it relates to why anyone here might be interested, is that the book examines near death experiences and the associated philosophical and metaphysical consequences to man's understanding of the mind-body relationship, reality, God (or nature), physics and the Universe, if one were to accept the data from NDE "survivors" as truthful proof and in this case this data having been compiled using the scientific method.

As anyone here may have concluded through personal observation or experience while on various "drugs", while the mind (consciousness) certainly can and does reside in the physical brain by default, we know it can also roam and go elsewhere and in inexplicable or indescribable ways.

Parnia likens the brain to a TV set that functions as an instrument that receives signals. We're all born with a TV set (a physical brain), sometimes some work better than others and by different measures. Sometimes they break down or become faulty. But when the TV finally turns off (when you die) what happens, metaphorically speaking, to the signal that made use of this instrument?

Here's one passage from the book, a NDE experience as related by a survivor:

"At that instant I was in a different level. Here all was soft gold, including me...All of life's fears and worries seemed so unimportant, so absolutely nothing to worry about, and all our fearful fretting seemed so unnecessary...I was aware that behind me stretched infinity, that all the people I'd ever known, knew now, and even would know were there, all made out of this golden 'light,' all made of the same stuff, and so truly we are all one. I saw this liquid-golden ocean out of which each person rose, made of the ocean, in their own individual shape, but all one originally, basically."

And below is a small portion from a woman who was clinically dead and came back after suffering internal bleeding from an ectopic pregnancy:

"I was told by those in spirit that I had been pregnant. I did not know that I had been pregnant before this; I just had abdominal pain. I was also told that the sprit of the child had initially consented to be born and then changed its mind...that it had experienced a very traumatic life before and just could not face life again just yet."

When I read these passages I was totally blown away. Through the use of various "means" over time I had achieved the same vision or understanding and knowledge as described above about these exact aspects relating to the nature of life and the state of consciousness in both the pre and post physical manifestation of a human life. I think one can achieve this knowledge through the prolong practice of meditation, but certain drugs seem to act like a shortcut.

At any rate, we all have different levels of education and knowledge of vocabulary. This means we may have a feeling about certain knowledge, but not the ability to articulate it well to other people verbally. Or one has the ability to articulate it, but depending on the level of one's education and knowledge of vocabulary, perhaps the meaning being expressed is similar, but the description varies.

Personal pre-conceptions related to one's belief systems, to a religion for example, will of course further color ones interpretation and description of these kinds of visions or knowledge.

But getting back to the book, it goes places that are really on the fringes of commonly accepted, conventional wisdom. So like many fringe notions it may at first sound out of the ordinary, but eventually becomes part of the common wisdom or knowledge. People are always more accepting of an idea when more people subscribe to it. That's just human nature. But when it's new, it takes courage to accept.

Has anyone else read this book?

All of my life I have had nearly these exact thoughts racing through my head at a million miles an hour and was unable to process them. This was because I was too scared to entertain them seeing as how I was raised in a christian setting, not wanting to stray from the comfort and stability of the way I believed things to be. Now that I have taken the dive and spent many sleepless nights thinking about this I have come to realize it as truth. Before even searching the internet for anything related to this I opened notepad and wrote a large chunk of what was in my mind. After opening this thread and reading this author's work the statements made and truths realized are nearly identical. I now understand the unified consciousness described above and the separation of mind and brain. Nearly every subject concerning this topic brought up in the above is on my notepad document. I am awestruck. I am not surprised though. Once you realize it, u can see that the truth has been there all along. I am beyond words in describing how happy I am to have found a group that have come to the same conclusion. I really hope all of you will add me on here and I sincerely apologize for the rambling, I am still trying to collect myself after this monumental breakthrough.