SWIM Became a Gnostic Whilst Tripping, Struggles With New Identity

[Decstar]

SWIM had this religious transformation while tripping on san pedro (cactus). SWIM has been an athiest for a long time and laughed at people for believing in God. SWIM read some Gnostic gospels while he was tripping (just for entertainment) but SWIM found them so compelling he became a Gnostic. These writings answer a lot of the questions SWIM had about mainstream christianity, such as 'why is the world not perfect if there is a God?'. SWIM didn't make a conscious decision to become a gnostic, it just happened. SWIM is now struggling with his new identity. SWIM is now beside himself and he does not know how to tell people about his new faith, espessially concidering the atheist ramblings he dished out over the years. SWIM doesn't know quite how to describe how he feels, but he says it feels like he has become a stranger to himself (if that makes sense to anyone). He says that he is confused about whether this is a good or a bad thing. He likes his new self, but he grieves for his old self. Has this happened to anybody else, and does anybody have any advice for SWIM?

[libertalism]

I can't answer all of swiys questions but i can try to answer why:
When swiy thinks logically swiy knows that there is no such thing as a god, then due swiys trip swiy planted a very powerfull idea in swiys head which is almost strong enough to lock up the logic thinking about that subject but somewhere in swiys mind swiy still believes what swiy believed before and that results in a inner conflict.

How long has it been since swiy has tripped?
It occurs alot that people feel strange after having an intense trip, time heals wonderfully in most cases.

[Stationary Traveller]

Don't forget that you may feel the presence of "god" within you regardless of whether there actually is a god or not.

I chose to believe otherwise, and defined this "god" as something else, that I won't try to find suitable words for.

It appears that you have felt the same way and now believe in one. Well, at the end of it all if you are not content with the way your thoughts turned out maybe you are limiting yourself to just the meaning of the word on the surface. Try to think more about how you feel about those questions rather than what the gospels told you how to feel. They make sense, obviously as so many people find them useful coping with such issues, but it doesn't mean that it is the only way to think of such issues.

I would recommend further reading about other beliefs (for example Buddhism and their definition of god) and try to integrate the certain aspects into your new self.

Welcome to self exploration!

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good advice.

[TMcK]

Decstar, an excellent way to start would be to find and ravenously consume as many Gnostic texts as possible! If SWIY is having difficultly explaining oneself to others, it's only because he or she still lacks the appropriate language to convey meaning to others - not surprising, considering how little empathsis the modern world places on individual experience, especially if it's of a nature that cannot be physically proven. This is a large part of why the mystical experience is under-valued (and is probably what caused SWIY to be an atheist in the first place).

Another way - which SWIY is obviously doing - would be to avail his/her insights and experiences to other like-minded individuals. What SWIM has found is that the more one compares and contrasts his own experiences with those of others, the more one will find a common metaphysical thread.

SWIM is personally of the belief that the mystical experience is far, far more real than the day-to-day life of symbols and gesalts that most non-psychedelic folks are willing to assume is the whole of reality.

SWIM strongly suggests that SWIY take a look at the Nag Hammadi Library. I am currently too new to post links, but the first entry on Google for "Nag Hammadi Library" is what SWIY shoulc check out. There, SWIY will find an incredible resource of supressed Gnostic texts which the Council of Nicea decided was "too outlandish" to be included in the New Testament.

Another interesting read, if SWIY can manage to find a copy of it, would be The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross: A Study of the Nature and Origins of Christianity within the Fertility Cults of the Ancient Near East, by John Marco Allegro. SWIM hasn't read it (can't find an affordable copy!), but understands the author's message to be that Jesus Christ was not a person at all, but rather a mushroom! Apparently, according to his research, early Gnostics were trying to give Roman officials the run-around, so they invented a friendly Jewish carpenter-cum-politician (who also happend to have a birthright to the throne of Solomon) as a red herring to throw Rome off the scent of what was really going one: a mushroom cult.

Good luck!

[sgurrman]

I've got a copy of the Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, a battered secondhand one I picked up in a secondhand bookshop. The author was pretty much exiled from the academic community after publication, and escaped to the Isle of Man, off the north-west coast of England. It is stated by his critics that some of his claims are based on unscientific evidence - I am in no position to comment on that personally -, but the way that he and his book were treated needs to be because his thesis is not exactly welcome among mainstream forms of christianity.

As for SWIY or SWIM experiencing some kind of 'spiritual revelation' as a result of contact with psychedelics, it does appear that such things can happen. SWIM suspects that it's a very deep and complex business, though, and that the further implications of such an experience can be the work of a lifetime. Frequent reflection and meditation, recollecting the experience and being open to whatever comes up in the mind, can help to absorb the whole thing. And patience.

[TMcK]

Originally Posted by sgurrman

It is stated by his critics that some of his claims are based on unscientific evidence - I am in no position to comment on that personally -, but the way that he and his book were treated needs to be because his thesis is not exactly welcome among mainstream forms of christianity.

I doubt very many of us would be able to make an educated comment on the veracity of his evidence, considering they were all written in Aramaic, of which Allegro had a scholar's grasp. It is a fairly radical concept, one that I imagine that many of his contemporaries were not even prepared to consider, given the implications to Christianity as a whole. To that end, I think one would be hard pressed to find even an extremely progressive and open-minded Christian authority willing to entertain the notion.

[helikophis]

Originally Posted by TMcK

I doubt very many of us would be able to make an educated comment on the veracity of his evidence, considering they were all written in Aramaic, of which Allegro had a scholar's grasp. It is a fairly radical concept, one that I imagine that many of his contemporaries were not even prepared to consider, given the implications to Christianity as a whole. To that end, I think one would be hard pressed to find even an extremely progressive and open-minded Christian authority willing to entertain the notion.

Actually, the majority of his "evidence" was based on Sumerian (and to a limited extent, Akkadian) sources, not Aramaic. Really, the book was not rejected based on how radical the concept was, it was based on how bad the scholarship was. There is absolutely no rigor or even probability in the linguistic speculation published in that book. Any individual with even superficial training in linguistics and the languages in question will see through his (non-)methods immediately.

Allegro had been a respected Near Eastern philologist and scholar of the Dead Sea Scrolls. This book ruined his career, not because the thesis was shocking to mainstream religions, but also because by the standards of the discipline, it is shockingly bad work. The (primarily linguistic) "evidence" is does not even come close to established standards of evidence, scholarship or plausibility.

In SMC, does not use the comparative method, or indeed any accepted methods of linguistic or philological analysis in the book. Instead, his method is to combine several attested Sumerian forms to produce a compound, unattested form (essentially all of his speculation is based on unattested forms). Then, based on a perceived (and unsystematic) similarity between his made-up form and an attested (or sometimes made-up) form in Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic, comes to rather startling conclusions about the inaccuracy of accepted histories of Near Eastern religious traditions.

Needless to say, not only is this not best linguistic practice, the results are next to meaningless. Essentially what Allegro produced was an exercise in Akkadian gematria. Now, while I am generally a proponent of gematria and Kabbalistic exercise for one's own consideration and for promoting flexible thinking, it absolutely does not substitute for scientific analysis.

It's a bit sad, actually. As a professional philologist, Allegro should have realized that his speculations were complete rubbish. I suspect that he got a flash of inspiration, and was so excited about the idea that he just completely lost his ability to be self-critical.

Still, if this book were about Psilocybe, and there were plausible evidence that that mushroom had been known and used in Old World antiquity, it would be a very fascinating thesis. It is still an interesting read, and possibly convincing to a non-specialist. I have previously uploaded a pdf of the book to the amanita section of the Files area. In case you can't find it there, I also attached it to a post in this thread:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78854

Please remember, if you choose to read it, that his linguistic arguments are almost entirely nonsensical, and do not stand up to any kind of rigorous philological/linguistic scrutiny! It might look good, but it's really quite made up.

As for Decstar, congratulations on your new-found knowledge! Struggling with your identity isn't something to be afraid of: it's part of the process. There are Guardians and Powers, within and without us, and they are hostile to our faith. Remember that we come from Outside: we aren't meant for this place.

Anyway, here is a link to the Nag Hammadi Library online:

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

This is the Gnosticism section of Sacred-texts.com:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/gno/index.htm

Have you heard of the Mandaeans? The are quite a fascinating group: an Aramaic-speaking people, one of the native (pre-Arab) groups of Mesopotamia (modern Iraq), and the final remnant of Ancient Near Eastern Gnosticism, which survived into modern times. They are still active today, primarily in Connecticut, I believe. They combine elements of the pre-Christian Greco-Semitic religious environment (what I call the "Hellenistic religious foment", from which Christianity, Mithraism, Manichaeanism, and other movements sprang) with elements of ancient Sumero-Akkadian paganism (their names for the planets, which their view alternately as evil spirits and protective deities, as quite obviously derived from the names of the major Akkadian gods: Nabu/Nbo/Mercury, for one, Dilbat/Libat/Venus [this one, unlike the others, has her Sumerian, not Akkadian, name survive - very strange!! This should give ANE philologists some pause in their consideration of the replacement of Sumerian by Akkadian at an early date, but as far as I know it has not been noted in any academic discussion]). Their symbol, the drabsha, is a cross of wood draped with a sash, a symbol familiar to any Catholic this time of year (Lent). Their founder, Iahia Iuhana (John John), is said to be that same John who provided Christ's initiation in the Jordan. Many of their hymns reference the Yardna (Jordan), and yardna is an important philosophical concept. The primary divine emanations in their system are "Life," "the Great Life," and "Knowledge-of-Life."

Books on Mandaenism go for a fairly high prices these days, as many of the originals have not been reprinted, but there are some reprints and new books out there. Any good academic libraries should have at least a few of the mythological and hymn texts produced by Lady E. S. Drower between the wars. She also produced a book on the Yezidis, another Gnostic minority of Iraq, the followers of the "Peacock Angel." Fascinating stuff, but I digress.

You might also be interested in the text "Liber AL vel Legis," a modern Gnostic holy book, written by the notorious Aleister Crowley in 1904. It can be found here:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/engccxx.htm

and in many bookstores. Crowley also published extensively on spiritual practices, some of which could be of use to a traveller engaged in Gnostic exploration. Here is the most succinct set of basic exercises:

Liber E, on Yoga:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib9.htm

Liber O, on "the work of Wisdom" (ritual):

http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/libero.html

I've also attached these three texts to this post as PDFs.

Good luck in your search, brother! In the words of the Mandaeans:
"Life is Victorious!"

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Very well informed poster, freely dispensing thereof, without any trace of smugness or insincerity.
	Good work here. Nice interpretations and support. Good organization.
	Informational post that really adds to the thread. Great references that add validity to the post.

[Dragonus18]

SWIM has also recently gone through something like this, but it's more of a past-life/alternative universe life mayhem, i don't know if it's me, my subconcious, or some other color of the spectrum

[shwinehund]

I suggest that you cease labeling yourself "Atheist" or "Gnostic" because it is totally pointless. You think that you have changed from before you were tripping, but you don't realize that you are not the same person you were from even 5 seconds ago. Who you were before you read this post.

The reason is, is because you have build a defined "identity" for yourself, and you feel strange that you can no longer rely on your dogmatic "Atheist ramblings" which are a part of the act of being an "atheist".

Yes, it can be upsetting when something like a psychedlic or a religious text comes along and destroys your ego/identity. But this should tell you that the ONLY time is NOW, and the "real You" is much more than psychological/idiological lost-and-found bin.

Don't bother explaining your new "faith" to other people. Infact, I strongly suggest that you do not take up a faith, but merely ask the questions you wish to know from all the different "faiths" and I'm pretty sure you'll find the answer somewhere (if not, there's always death/ all is revelealed). Anyways, it was you who decided to read that book, which is a good start. Many, many people wouldn't even go that far as they are too chickenshit to question their beleifs, and would avoid anything that might make them think. As they say, "Ignorance is bliss"

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very good advice. Labels and religious power structures are artificial constructs to be avoided

[sandoz1943]

Your not alone. SWIM only believed in science and facts. Having been raised by educated parents in scientific fields she had never even been exposed to religious thought. She recently had some interesting experiences while under the influence of mind altering substances that left her in a spiritual limbo. Her recent relelations have left her with more questions than answers. She believes she will need additional lifetimes to sort it all out.

[Burnt]

People take psychedelics all the time and think they saw god or they are god or that the universe is so amazing we are all one etc etc. Its just the drugs causing you to have profound experiences. Yes the universe is an amazing place! But that doesn't mean its alive or that you are any sort of god.

SWIM has had profound mystical and religious experiences on psychedelics. But the only reason they are called mystical or religious is because most people don't understand what else to call them. I call them a brain working differently now. It makes the most sense in terms of what we know.

I dunno I think people make too big a deal about religion and spirituality thats just my opinion

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good logical argument that really points out the strange habits of man.

[sandoz1943]

There was a time when SWIM would agree with you wholeheartedly. Your statements are very logical and make perfect sense to her however, the things she has seen and experienced are (to her) very real and profound and her experience not so easily (as much as she wants it to be) explained as a change in her brain chemistry. She thinks that she would have come to this point with or without the use of drugs as they are only tools and that they neither add or deminish her experience at all.

Sometimes its easier to take the blue pill because once you take the red one nothing is realy ever the same as much as you might want it to be. SWIM thinks religion and god should be something personal. She has not made up her mind where she stands on any of it yet.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Open-minded stance on spritual and mystical experiences. We are all seeking the same answers.

[Decstar]

Thanks for the advise guys. I think I have adjusted pretty well. Who says that being 'reborn' is supposed be easy anyway? Life is full of pivotal moments which force us to reasses or change ourselves or our lifestyles and we should take them in our stride. It's called living.

Gnosticism isn't really a 'faith' based religion. It is more 'knowledge' based. That is, it is the belief that salvation will come through seeking divine knowledge (gnosis) through a personal quest rather than by adhering to some preconceived dogma. So it is very outward looking religion. That is why it is so damn intriguing.

[SunMoon]

Originally Posted by Decstar

SWIM had this religious transformation while tripping on san pedro (cactus). SWIM has been an athiest for a long time and laughed at people for believing in God. SWIM read some Gnostic gospels while he was tripping (just for entertainment) but SWIM found them so compelling he became a Gnostic. These writings answer a lot of the questions SWIM had about mainstream christianity, such as 'why is the world not perfect if there is a God?'. SWIM didn't make a conscious decision to become a gnostic, it just happened. SWIM is now struggling with his new identity. SWIM is now beside himself and he does not know how to tell people about his new faith, espessially concidering the atheist ramblings he dished out over the years. SWIM doesn't know quite how to describe how he feels, but he says it feels like he has become a stranger to himself (if that makes sense to anyone). He says that he is confused about whether this is a good or a bad thing. He likes his new self, but he grieves for his old self. Has this happened to anybody else, and does anybody have any advice for SWIM?

I understand why SWIY struggles but he really shouldn't. Can SWIY honestly imagine a world without god? A world that is purely made of chance and chaos? If god does indeed exist, then things actually mean something and this is a great realization!