Drug info - Morphine to 6-MAM using Acetic Acid + catalyst

[Picass035]

Acetic Anhydride is good for converting morphine into heroin, but it acetylates both the 6-carbon of the morphine molecule (which is good) and the useless 3-carbon. SWIM wants to obtain only 6-MAM without having any 3-MAM in the final product. 6-MAM is more potent by weight than 3,6 diacetylmorphine since the 3-MAM doesn't have to be deacetylated in the brain. Acetic Acid + catalyst is the key.

The catalyst in question is electricity (props to samuraigecko for this) To aid the reaction, aluminum chloride is also added. But how much actual electricity is needed? SWIM assumes Direct Current is the best way to go (a car battery for example). Would the following procedure work?

1) Extract Morphine Sulphate from pills etc.
2) Convert MS to Morphine Base using NaOH or ammonium hydroxide and set the pH to around 9.1 (ideal)
3) Mix the Morphine Base with Acetic Acid and aluminum chloride in a NON-METAL container
4) Take a wire that is attached to the (-) lead of a car battery and put it into the solution on one side of the container. Make sure the insulation of the wire can support relatively high heat so it won't melt.
5) Take another wire and put it into the solution on the opposite side of the container, but DON'T connect it to the battery just yet.
6) Cover the solution and fasten the top securely
7) Put everything in an oven set to 85 degrees Celsius (185 degrees F)
8) Attach the loose wire to the (+) lead of the battery
9) Wait about 3-4 hours (more? less?)
????: Drugs Forum http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4505210) Disconnect wires from battery
11) Unfasten and remove the lid on the container to let remaining Acetic Acid evaporate inside the oven.
12) After everything is dry and cool, add Muriatic Acid to the 6-MAM Base until the pH is about a 5 or 6 (is there a specific pH that is ideal?)
13) Once you have 6-MAM Hcl, dissolve everything in distilled water and filter out the aluminum chloride
14) Relatively strong 6-MAM Hcl should be obtained

**SWIM would like to hear any suggestions regarding this procedure!!**

[Picass035]

Anyone? Maybe it would be better if this thread were moved to the Chemistry section of the forum. SWIM couldn't post there at the time he wrote this. Thanks!!

[samuraigecko]

OK, full points on finding what the catalyst was. Yes indeed it is electricity rather than heat.

SWIM has to advise EXTREME caution. If SWIyou intend on making this (in a theoretical hypothetical experiment) then it would be at own risk. The only way SWIM would attempt it again was if he did it with a pure source of Morphine such as Morphine sulfate pills or injection solution.

SWIM would DEFINITELY NOT use CPS or any kind of poppy material for this because the AA + electrolysis doesn't just acetylate the Morphine but it acetylates Position 6 of the Codeine also, making 6MAC.

6MAC is EXTREMELY toxic to humans, producing extreme allergic reactions in almost 100% of cases. These are not just a "take an antihistamine" reaction but will quickly becomes full blown anaphylaxis leading to death.

Anything that has the possibility of having Codeine in it should be used under any circumstance. SWIM almost died doing this which is why he has not posted any more on the subject as yet. He was waiting until he could find a way to do the procedure reliably and without making 6MAC as a bi-product.

He did not want to mention what the catalyst was because there is always some idiot out there that will try it anyway. He cannot stress enough not to do this from poppy material.

IF ONE IS TO DO IT FROM POPPY MATERIAL OR ANY OTHER SUBSTANCE OR SOLUTION CONTAINING CODEINE THEY WILL DIE WITHOUT IMMEDIATE MEDICAL ATTENTION.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT "MAYBE" YOU WILL DIE OR "PERHAPS" YOU WILL DIE OR "THERE IS A DANGER YOU WILL DIE" . . . . .

IT MEANS YOU
- - - WILL DIE - - -
IF ONE DOES NOT GET IMMEDIATE MEDICAL ATTENTION, AND ONE DOES MEAN IMMEDIATE. EVEN THEN THIS MAY NOT HELP. THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOLY SNAPPIN' DUCK SHIT!!!!

Just noticed . . . do not use heat. Heat is not the catalyst. And even more important do not put a battery either in or near an oven. One has to have safety in mind at all times. No heat at ANY point is needed to successfully make 6MAM from MS pills.

Remember, no Codeine.
Peace and be safe

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very very important information, warning is formatted clearly.

[Picass035]

Thanks for the reply

Yeah, SWIM is aware of the extreme danger of 6-MAC.. Nasty stuff. Swim is glad SWISGecko is okay and that hopefully there wasn't any permanent damage:/

The morphine would indeed be acquired from MS pills, and not from CPS -or anything resembling that in any shape or form!

So basically, a quick rundown would be:

1) Extract MS --> basify to ph 9.1
2) Put M Base + GAA + aluminum chloride in container
3) Perform electrolysis using car battery for 3-4 hours
4) Filter off 6-MAM Base --> acidify w/ Hcl to pH 6 --> 6-MAM Hcl

Good stuff indeed. SWIM is happy he could educate himself more on this subject. One can never have too much information hehe:P

[samuraigecko]

Yes that is about right.
However the electrolysis does not need to be performed for that long.
For 1 liter of water about 10 to 15 minutes is sufficient.

One can (with EXTREME caution) also use long diodes attached to a car battery charger (wall plug type) if a scientist had one of those but no spare battery.

NEVER let the diodes touch either in or out of the water. Make sure the vessel used has placement retainers of some sort for the diodes to sit in, this can be made rather easily, just make sure they sit at opposite ends of whatever vessel used.

Peace

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very good information and great DF member!

[Picass035]

Also, SWIM has been told that Sodium Chloride (regular, non-iodized table salt) could be used in lieu of AlCl3 in *most* electrolysis applications. Could the aforementioned be applied to this type of reaction or is AlCl3 is *specifically* required?

SWIM thinks Sodium Chloride would indeed work, assuming its role is only to conduct electricity -and if it's capable of doing so in an acidic aqueous solution w/o water. Its solubility in Glacial Acetic Acid however is the real question..

What does SWISGecko think about this? SWIM will report back when he finds the answer to the possible *substitution* of aluminum chloride.

[testingthewaters]

Really exciting thread. Was hoping I could add a question or two to the mix.

I understand the warning about codeine products, I really take it to heart. But I must ask, I was under the impression that codeine-related allergic reactions only occured when the product was injected? Is this true? Might it perhaps be possible to take a small quantity of acetylated codeine by some ROA other than injection and avoid the risk? Just curious.

And, given the answer to the above, is it conceivable (read: is there a method), to fully separate morphine and codeine from a solution?

Again, super cool thread.

[davestate]

Can someone post a link to a reference for this actually working??

[Probing Tranquility]

So hypothetically if one had 6-MAM could it be cut down to 50%? For dosing purposes?

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by testingthewaters

I understand the warning about codeine products, I really take it to heart. But I must ask, I was under the impression that codeine-related allergic reactions only occured when the product was injected? Is this true? Might it perhaps be possible to take a small quantity of acetylated codeine by some ROA other than injection and avoid the risk? Just curious.

It is not a warning about Codeine products. It is a specific warning about 6MAC (position 6 mono - acetylated Codeine). It is toxic to humans producing EXTREME reactions even in opiate tolerant peoples. It is not just toxic to humans IV'ed like ordinary Codeine can be, It is Toxic via ANY route of administration. When SWIM says "TOXIC TO HUMANS" he means "POTENTIALLY LETHAL TO HUMANS IN ALL ROUTES OF ADMINISTRATION".

Peace

[outtherebrother]

nice hypothetical tek.

it's a good idea if u can pull it off with an acceptable yield..given MS pills can be really cheap and when converted to 6mam or diamorph will be stronger/cleaner than street dope...

black tar is 6mam, heroin and a bunch of other crap sometimes as low as .01 percent actual dope in a given .1 -- that's bullshit


if one could get .7 on the point for conversion loss from morphine to dope that would be a big win for the swiy cuz at least it's pure

[mjwallberg]

samuraigecko and picasso35:
has anyone actually tried, to the logical end, the suggested method of MS to 6MAM using acetic acid and electricity?
mjwallberg

mjwallberg added 312 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

& you wonder WHY i ask? in #6, picasso35 uses the words "aqueous solution without water". need i say more? but really, i am not a critic, merely an enthusiast who is getting the sense that this is ALL hypothetical meanderings of persons primarily otherwise occupied and, therefore, primarily without merit.

[davestate]

Originally Posted by mjwallberg

samuraigecko and picasso35:
has anyone actually tried, to the logical end, the suggested method of MS to 6MAM using acetic acid and electricity?
mjwallberg

mjwallberg added 312 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

& you wonder WHY i ask? in #6, picasso35 uses the words "aqueous solution without water". need i say more? but really, i am not a critic, merely an enthusiast who is getting the sense that this is ALL hypothetical meanderings of persons primarily otherwise occupied and, therefore, primarily without merit.

It's complete and utter bullshit, who the hell though because electricity is involved that somehow this would work?! There is NO grounds to suggest this might work. A suitable catalyst would be something like DMAP, which is an esterification catalyst, and may work with GAA and H2SO4


Here is a reference
http://designer-drugs.com/pte/12.162....synthesis.pdf

NOTE: This still uses acetic anhydride, it's just the reaction is done in 10mins at room temp. Glacial acetic acid is highly unlikely to work, at all. Ever. OK?

[Picass035]

Originally Posted by mjwallberg

samuraigecko and picasso35:
has anyone actually tried, to the logical end, the suggested method of MS to 6MAM using acetic acid and electricity?
mjwallberg

mjwallberg added 312 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

& you wonder WHY i ask? in #6, picasso35 uses the words "aqueous solution without water". need i say more? but really, i am not a critic, merely an enthusiast who is getting the sense that this is ALL hypothetical meanderings of persons primarily otherwise occupied and, therefore, primarily without merit.

Yeah, SWIM did notice that typo a while ago but never corrected it. Aqueous = WITH water I know heh.

But on a side note, this TEK *DOES* work. Tried and proven by one of SWIM's friend who has access to a lab at a university (located somewhere where te weather is cold lol) Only ~600mg of MS was reacted initially and 387mg was left after the reaction from start to finish. The final product was indeed 6-MAM with a purity level of 54% (confirmed). There was also unreacted morphine in the FP. Not too bad SWIM thinks..

SWIM is sure the procedure could be tweaked to get better yields but the main goal of this experiment was to see if GAA could indeed convert morph into something *better*:P

Sorry davestate

[g666d]

why does no-one do this? is it new?
does 6-mam degrade quick or something?
no one can monitor vinegar sales.
I've been told of AA (anhydride) selling for $20/ml

g666d added 50 Minutes and 43 Seconds later...

i think possibly good idea for brave experimenters to check toxicity levels of substance on form of life other than human, possibly on neighbors cat or something depending on circumstance.

[Scientistman11]

Is this Process safe and effective? And does it just produce 6-Monoacetylmorphine, or does it produce 6-Monoacetylmorphine and 6-Monoacetylcodiene?

[g666d]

swim wouldn't try it if swim was swiy

[Scientistman11]

SWIM wants to know if anyone has a more detailed version of this process with numbers/measurements.

Scientistman11 added 522 Minutes and 37 Seconds later...

Also would Aluminum Chloride Hexahydrate (ALCL3-6H2O) work?

[kraver]

Few questions in regard to further extraction of pure morhine from dried pod or opium. If swy am correct, "ether" filtered in ph9 solution takes codeine away... A .02 micron filter takes plant inpurities away. Further filtration with methanol, toluene, hcl. Ice freeze method takes fats away. And swy knows ether is highly flammable but not to hard to come by. Now if swiim had sulphuric morphine with no alkoloid (codeine then swy can 6mam it with no health worries with acetic acid and acid catalyst or battery electricity. Correct???

So theoretically swim's gecko is wrong as far as not being able to make 6mam from dried poppy or opium. Just as long as swim is an expert in removing codeine and plant inpurities. And also if swim were to intravene the solution. Then surely swim would do so in salt form with as little solution as possible. So swy thinks swim's gecko only suggested non use of dried poppy or opium, as a health precaution to the nube chemist or opium morhine practicioner. Swy means no offence. And highly respects swim's gecko's contributions. And swim is new here but a sponge in extracting knowlege in regards to chemistry. And a passionate experienced opium home chemist.

Further feedback would be appreciated on this analysis.

[g666d]

codeine not soluble in acetone, if this helps

g666d added 1 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

swim asks if AC current would be more effective?

[Picass035]

AFAIK Direct Current is what's always used in electrolysis applications. Never heard of Alternating Current being used at all.

DC is MUCH safer to use anyway, so why bother with AC?

Oh and on a side note regarding this TEK, Ferric Chloride can be substituted for Aluminum Chloride.

~P

[g666d]

Originally Posted by Picass035

AFAIK Direct Current is what's always used in electrolysis applications. Never heard of Alternating Current being used at all.

DC is MUCH safer to use anyway, so why bother with AC?

Oh and on a side note regarding this TEK, Ferric Chloride can be substituted for Aluminum Chloride.

~P

swim was just thinking seeing as you get less line loss with AC maybe this would translate to more effective electrolysis. swim wasn't referring to AC out of power socket, would likely limit current or alter voltage if was going to use this source.

DC and AC are both as dangerous as each other lol, but i think you know that.

Cheers for reply swim has much to learn...

g666d added 2 Minutes and 24 Seconds later...

ooh, maybe weird inductance stuff makes AC slightly more dangerous.

[Scientistman11]

How do you extract the ferric chloride or aluminum chloride form the 6-mam Hcl solution when it is dissolved in distilled water?

[davestate]

Y'all know that the 3 position is preferentially acetylated first, right?

[Jeff Woad]

I was under the impression that the 6 site will bond a lot easier than the 3 site?

I thought that was the whole point of this theoretical thread. No?