Tolerance - The thing about buprenorphine..

[Creeping Death]

The question i want to ask is if the buzz disappeares PERMANENTLY from this drug. Even if you detox.

SWIM doesn't use other opiates, and hasn't ever used Heroin. He has occasionally used Codeine for recreation, but not in a couple of years, and only on occasions few and far between. SWIMs strongest opiate experience was from Morphine IV after big surgery in a hospital, this was 2003. And Subutex the first time blew morphine away. So i am pretty opiate naive, and i only use low doses for recreation.

SWIM was snorting Subutex 8mg pills, about 0,5mg daily for chronic pain/illness - for maybe 50 days. To get "high" he would snort about 1mg. Thats 0,5 during the afternoon for pain and misery, and just as much an hour or so later to get buzzed/nodding. Sometimes higher than that, but usually around 0,5mg per day.

Of course the buzz disappeared later, and even snorting 2 or 3 mg at once from a 0,5 "base-dose" didn't give a real high (though you do still feel good).

SO, i actually stopped it cold turkey. It was a difficult experience even after only 50 days use, and swim got the cold sweats and extreme fatigue. Not to mention the non-stop thinking about snorting something. The true withdrawal kicked in on day 3 after quitting, and i felt completely healthy on day 7.

So on day 8 of being sober from Subutex, SWIM started using it again. It wasn't my intetion to quit forever, just to get the good feeling from it again. Well i supposed it worked on that first day or two... but then it's gone again?

The tolorance reduction has worked, but it's almost like the high is DIFFERENT. Not the same drug as before.

Especially the first time i EVER did subutex.. god damn it was as strong as heroin or something. I got really euphorinc/best feeling of my life, and felt very heavy, but at the same time like i was flying. And almost threw up if i didn't lay down. I have never been nauseous again from Subutex since the first time i bought an 8mg. Nor have i since been THAT high. It just seems unreachable.

I wouldn't describe my subutex use as heavy. Sometimes i just dont use any on it for two days. I did like this in my last "cycle" aswell. Any difference there might be is that now i have stopped smoking weed. Weed used to make the buzz much stronger. But i remember i used to get really really noddy from Subutex even without weed.

So what do you guys think, does it change forever for you too? If its the case, then its pointless for SWIM to use it. Wich is a shame cause its a pretty damn good drug, and not really that addictive in my experience. Makes you more "up" instead of slow and lets you live a normal life even if you have illness and depression. SWIM is considering taking other opiates, such as codeine. But it wont be the same as Subutex was back in the day, and thats what i REALLY want back. It used to feel like a miracle drug for everything.

And SO reliable. Its cheap, and you always know that what you get is pure. Unlike powder on the street.

[Sniffin Sunshine]

yes swim believes that this is probably just the effects of getting adjusted to swiys drug of choice, especially opiates.
it will never be the same as the first time no matter what, tolerance happens, and fairly fast.
when swim is unable to score and is forced to withdrawl for a few days she always gets higher than usual when she gets more, and sometimes she can even get high off of a smaller dose if its her first score in a while, but tolerance always comes back quickly once youve gotten it.
like riding a bike, you never forget, er, your body doesnt anyway.

so unfortunately theres not too much to be done about it, but there are some options.

1. just do more at a time, if swiy cant get high off 3 mg, try 5, or even more, just incriment slowly so it isnt too much. it'll cost more to get high, but its up to the individual weather thats worth it or not.

2. try a different method of dosing. Theoretically, suboxone/subutex has a high sublingual absorbtion rate. try taking it the way it is intended, under the tongue, and see if it is better. IVing will always make it way stonger cause its 100% absorbtion, but its definately not advised, even swim who is a needle user herself wouldnt reccomend this due to binders in pills and of course addiction, which it seems swiy is just starting to get into-watch out.

3. Try a stronger opiate. codiene probably isnt the best choice from personal experiance (swims personal experiance of course) maybe oxycodone or oxymorphone.

good luck!

[Herbal Healer 019]

Buprenorphine has a low bioavailability orally (like 22%) & sublingually (30%) so the best way to do it theoretically is IntraVeiniously (100% bioavailable) or rectally (90%), but other than that intranasaly (snorted) is the second most convenient method (75% bioavailability); just make sure SWIY doesnt snort so hard as to suck it all the way into the back of the throat (will cause it to drip into the stomach).

SWIM used to use it once every weekend & does notice the buzz does seem weaker/less pronounced than the very first few times, but SWIM has taken about a month break & has been substituting with morphine & codeine so hopefully the tolerance to the buprenorphine will be non existant or relatively low.

Dont dose on subutex so frequently & take breaks frequently (like 1-3X a week for a month then a month or 2 period of abstinence from bup)