Addiction - Stop codeine then start again

[Tussipax]

Swim can't get high anymore on codeine. She reached the ceiling effect of 500mg and she dosn't dare to increase the dose because of her lightweight.
Swim tried white pomelos juice and alcohol to increase effects but it doesn't work anymore as well it did.
So, she decided to stop during 2 weeks.
Can Swim hope to get high on codeine after this 2-weeks break ??
Or should she wait more ??

[RoboCodeine7610]

No, tolerance to opiates decreases very quickly and two weeks are plenty.Don't,however,expect to get the same effect you used to get at the begining.For some reason, opiate users (or at least swim and people swim knows) never get back to 0 tolerance.So it will decrease as much as it can possibly decrease in two weeks.

Just make sure you do quit for two weeks, since coincidentally,swim hasn't done codeine for 2 weeks now, for the exact same reason and it's been extremely difficult.Videogames (Half-Life 2 in particular) really helped swim get his mind off taking codeine.

Good luck, Robo

[Tussipax]

Swim can well imagine that tolerance can't back to zero. It's logical after all ! But if tolerance can decrease as fastly as you say, it's really great !!!

Do you think swim can get a fix of only 250 mg instead of 500 and to have pleasant effects ?

Swim understands precfectly Swiy.Swim is craving all days long for codeine, she tried to forget by watching TV, by reading but she's real sleeping disorders problems and has a really bad mood.

[cybergenesis]

As far as Swim is aware codeine has a cutoff point somewhere around 500mg where your body can't convert any more to morphine, so having more will not produce any further effect.

[TheBadMan]

Originally Posted by cybergenesis

As far as Swim is aware codeine has a cutoff point somewhere around 500mg where your body can't convert any more to morphine, so having more will not produce any further effect.

Evidence for this?
Where did you hear this?

Codeine's conversion to morphine is not particularly great and may have nothing to do with its euphoric properties. More recent theories are that UGT 2B7 converts codeine to a conjugate (about 70% of the codeine) which is the active substance.

I have never seen any good reason for believing there is such a thing as a "ceiling dose" for codeine, though I have been angrily told many times that I am an idiot for being skeptical about it.

[RoboCodeine7610]

Do you think swim can get a fix of only 250 mg instead of 500 and to have pleasant effects ?

After two weeks?Definetely.Swim honestly expected his tolerance to go back to 0 after 2 weeks of abstinence but he was very wrong.His tolerance was still waaay higher than when he first started taking codeine.

As far as Swim is aware codeine has a cutoff point somewhere around 500mg where your body can't convert any more to morphine, so having more will not produce any further effect.

You're right about the ceiling effect at ~400-450mg but higher doses will provide an additional effect, just not as strong as doses below 400mg.For example, 800mg is more potent than 400mg but not twice as potent.

[Tussipax]

Swim could have more pleasant effect than the 1st time ???! Really ??
Oh great, Swim really believed she could'nt have more effects over 500mg.

[RoboCodeine7610]

Swim could have more pleasant effect than the 1st time ???! Really ??

No, you misunderstood.What I said was that swim expected to get the same effects as the first time but although he's tolerance was as low as it could possibly be, it didn't happen.So yeah, you'll enjoy much smaller doses after the 2 week period but it'll never be as good as the first times.

Robo

[Tussipax]

Swim thought well she misunderstood.
Next codeine fix, Thursday or Friday, Swim hopes it's gonna better than the last one.

[RoboCodeine7610]

Next codeine fix, Thursday or Friday, Swim hopes it's gonna better than the last one.

So you're not going through with the 2 weeks plan?Swim highly recommends that you finish the full 14 day period to make sure that your tolerance is as close to 0 as it could possibly be.

Robo

[Tussipax]

Last time I took codeine it was on 6 February. It's gonna 2 weeks next Friday but I'll come back at home Thursday. So Thursday, I will have my fix after 13-days interruption.

[RoboCodeine7610]

Last time I took codeine it was on 6 February. It's gonna 2 weeks next Friday but I'll come back at home Thursday. So Thursday, I will have my fix after 13-days interruption.

Sounds like a good plan, but take it easy as you'd be surprised at how much lower your tolerance can get.

[RoboCodeine7610]

Last time I took codeine it was on 6 February. It's gonna 2 weeks next Friday but I'll come back at home Thursday. So Thursday, I will have my fix after 13-days interruption.

Sounds like a good plan, but take it easy as you'd be surprised at how much lower your tolerance can get.

[Tussipax]

I'll keep you posted about effects and if my tolerance'd get lower.
I'll have my next codeine fix tomorrow.I'm so excited about that !!

[RoboCodeine7610]

Codeine's conversion to morphine is not particularly great and may have nothing to do with its euphoric properties. More recent theories are that UGT 2B7 converts codeine to a conjugate (about 70% of the codeine) which is the active substance.

I have never seen any good reason for believing there is such a thing as a "ceiling dose" for codeine, though I have been angrily told many times that I am an idiot for being skeptical about it.

I totally agree with you.Most of codeine's analgesic activity does come from a conjugate.But that does not mean that there's no ceiling dose,as the liver can only make a limited amount of that conjugate.

[TheBadMan]

Originally Posted by RoboCodeine7610

. . . the liver can only make a limited amount of that conjugate.

And do we really know that this is correct and that the upper limit to conjugate conversion is 500 mg? Or is this just an ad hoc way of making the ceiling dose idea less silly?

[Tussipax]

Yeah, it's strange it could have a "ceiling dose".
The question could be : What's the theory which could prove liver can't turn more than 500mg of codeine into morphine ??

[RoboCodeine7610]

And do we really know that this is correct and that the upper limit to conjugate conversion is 500 mg? Or is this just an ad hoc way of making the ceiling dose idea less silly?

Well, I'm sure the 400-500mg mark is based on experimental data and not just theory.Otherwise, how the hell would someone know that the liver can't convert more than 400mg into morphine?That was just the assumption.

[TheBadMan]

Why are you sure that is is based on experimental data? I have looked for experimental data to support this notion of a ceiling dose and simply cannot find any. In fact, I cannot really find any reliable source saying that there is such thing as a ceiling dose. The only places I ever hear about the ceiling dose of codeine are on forums like this, wikipedia and codeine FAQs. I can find no scientific publication that even makes the claim about a codeine ceiling dose (and certainly none that has any evidence of such a thing). If I could at least find a source in a medical text or a scientific journal article mentioning the codeine ceiling dose, I could try to figure out where on earth this idea came from, but I simply can't find this claim.

Most codeine is not metabolized to morphine anyway. Conversion to morphine is a minor metabolic route and there is much doubt that conversion to morphine is the basis for codeine's activity (this is an old assumption which came into doubt quite some time ago).