Experiences - What is a more "Life Changing Experience? LSD or DMT? How has it changed you?

[metaljuana]

Swim has been planning on taking some LSD or DMT, and is unsure what to get, swim is not trying to get fucked up or anything, (though swim wouldnt mind that really) but swim is looking for a more life changing experience, a completely different view on life, and a feeling like he understands the world more than he has before. Which substance do you think best suits swim for that? Are the changes similar? What is different? How does swiy view the world now after taking either drug?

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

The effect of psychedelics are totally subjective. For swim, DMT is a more intense experience than LSD. For others, it is the other way around...

The effect psychedelics have on your life really depend on how they affect your lifestyle and what insights they give you. For swim, LSD is better for having insights, DMT just messes swim up. Of course, for swiy, it might be the other way around. Furthermore, the type of insight swim wants to get in his life might be totally different to the one swiy wants and thus our methods for getting them would be different.

swim wouldn't advise relying solely on drugs to give you a new approach to life... Drug use for spiritual gain/enlightenment/whatever, IMO, should be used within the context of a pre-existing mindset. This mindset should include open mindedness along with a full understanding and conceptualisation of your ego- your identity; and also, if you wish, a purpose/goal for your psychedelic session. If you just take psychedelics with the notion that they can change your life in such a fundamental way by themselves, you might be lucky, but you are more likely to be disappointed. Psychedelics don't teach you new ways to think, but you can use them to teach yourself new ways to think.

Perhaps you could give some more information about your life and why exactly you want a life changing experience.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good post in life changing experiences thread
	Good post describing purposeful use of psychedelics

[Songcycle67]

SWIM says:

In addition to the wonderful post by Joe, I'd like to add that many people who take psychedelics find that the key to a life-changing experience is to take some every time they get their hands on it. They tell themselves "this one is for fun! there's always more." And that goes on for a few years.....anyway, what I'm getting at is that "mind expansion" can become a good excuse to get fucked up on anything.

It's in SWIY's hands to do the changing part. Many people find it much easier to just pop another tab of acid, which is generally the last thing one wants to do when they plan to "integrate" their previous experience into their lives.

It's actually quite hard...one does end up with quite a bit of confusing data when coming out of these sessions, and some people simply don't know how to deal with that information. So instead of trying to get to the root of their problem or the meaning of such-and-such a revelation they, again, just play the "gotta expand my mind" card and toss back a few tabs. Basically lulling themselves into a psychedelic stupor--which is very easy to do.


With DMT there's that much more risk, because tolerance builds very very very slowly and the duration of the trip is much less (when smoked).

As to the original question: would they rather be gently shuttled into the universe for 12-16 hours with minimal visuals (on average doses in an average human) (LSD)

or

would they rather be shot out into deep space from a cannon, wherein, for about 15 minutes, you find the most absurd creatures imaginable bathed in the glow of cathedral stained glass exploding all around you--rocketing along at about 60,000light years per second? (DMT)


In my experience, duration of trip does heavily effect how much you can absorb, and thusly integrate, into waking consciousness (normal life). And for that kind of thing, for my money, there's just nothing better than LSD. And it is really quite gentle, depending upon dose. It's a very nice welcoming party, but don't expect much visuals on a standard tab.

Feeling one with the universe, time/space distortion are basically the same for both drugs: one is lucid during even the most confusing of DMT and LSD trips. No matter what kind of psychedelic they take they're going to experience a marvelous version of creation, that's generally a feature of all psychedelic drugs. They will give the person a good objective view of themselves, though personally speaking that view may be a fuckload stranger via DMT.

[Metal_Ren]

Originally Posted by Joe-(5-HTP)

swim wouldn't advise relying solely on drugs to give you a new approach to life... Drug use for spiritual gain/enlightenment/whatever, IMO, should be used within the context of a pre-existing mindset. This mindset should include open mindedness along with a full understanding and conceptualisation of your ego- your identity; and also, if you wish, a purpose/goal for your psychedelic session. If you just take psychedelics with the notion that they can change your life in such a fundamental way by themselves, you might be lucky, but you are more likely to be disappointed. Psychedelics don't teach you new ways to think, but you can use them to teach yourself new ways to think.

Perhaps you could give some more information about your life and why exactly you want a life changing experience.

Both Joe and songcycle know what they are talking about. And are perfect to talk to about this. But SWIM wouldn't recommend setting a GOAL/PURPOSE. SWIM just made this mistake. In short ..... SWIY may never hit/get that goal/purpose that he's looking for, and it could become a major let-down/disappointment and maybe even be a bit depressing. SWIM luckily didnt let that happen due to experience and mind-set. But it was a bit of a let-down when his goal/purpose wasnt achieved and floated off into the distance.

Let what happens, - Happen
Let what comes, - Come,
Let what is - Be,
And enjoy something different. It may very well suprise you and lead you to what your looking for.
But dont try to force it on SWIY.
The more one tries to make it happen, the less likely it is... Not to say it won't happen. Just try to let it happen naturally.... If that makes sense. Dont plan TOO much,... for things will tend to happen differently than planned....

Open-Mind / Clear-Head / + Quiet seclusive space = Personal Enlightenment

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good combination of advise and experience.

[Jatelka]

For the flamingo, there is no comparison.

She found DMT to be diverting (for a time), but ultimately bleak, empty and horrifying. For her the speed/intensity of the catapult into alternate space was not dealable with in any meaningful way: It was just too far beyond her normal experience/comprehension, and rarely resulted in sustained insight of any significance

She has described the DMT experience before as inducing "cosmic agoraphobia". This is a very empty and cold state, whereas the ego-death associated with LSD has (eventually) become something to be embraced and rejoice in. The transitions associated with LSD are much easier to manage, and therefore to integrate, and influence world view

This is, of course, impossible to explain in words, as both experiences are all about feelings, which are notoriously hard to convey

As with many DMT vs LSD questions, this does come down to apples/oranges/cherries: Whatever happens to your monkey, I guess

[psyche]

Personal question no doubt. SWIM has found a lot of enlightenment in DMT(by which he means the drink ayahuasca). The experience is indeed a lot more confusing, empty, intense and possibly horrifying. It has been like a fear of death, that once concuered, one starts enjoying himself and feels like he has returned to his spiritual home. It's a lot like a feeling of being born or dying; everything seems to collapse into present moment. Like a black hole with intense things happening on the edge of it's event horizon. That can be terrifying, but after getting used to it it feels like being lulled into sleep in very high frequency cosmic cradlle. Feels like getting used to death. And that's the most important aspect of the first intense trip for SWIM; not fearing death anymore. It leaves SWIM with an intense peace of mind.

LSD, on the other hand, is very elusive, all-encompassing and interesting. It's smooth, no doubt, and the visuals are very mellow and wholesome. The feeling of time seems to disappear as one just forgets it. In DMT time or timelesness feels still sharp, in acid it's all part of the whole ocean of existence. The opening of the third eye is very strong with LSD. SWIM might prefer LSD, it's at least a lot more welcoming and fun. DMT is almost always serious or a matter of life and death. SWIM hasn't had acid other than on two occasions on low quantity, though.

Edit: Here are some of SWIM's collected trip reports on ayahuasca over the last year: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...d.php?p=408728