++++ Psychedelic experience? From what drug?

[quinone]

I dont understand how MDMA could induce a ++++ as some people
state. Isn't it just a very powerful entheogen? From my
understanding of Shulgins rating system (from reading PIHKAL in its
entirety) I dont see how MDMA could do such a thing. SWIM has
only tried MDMA once and it did not work.
SWIM wants to try again in a few months, but hearing this ++++ stuff
scares him (SWIM is not prepared for such a journey as SWIM has never
taken ANY psychadelic, only pot).



SWIM doesn't claim to be a psychonaut (obviously), but his
interpretation of a ++++ experience is one that is seperate from
every aspect of our known sensory interpretation of reality, exists as
something completely unexplainable by any words and is shrouded in a
realm of pure noncorporial spirituality. Essentially an
experience far beyond the bounds and limitations of corporeal
existence. Like SWIM said, he is not a psychonaut and has no
experience in such matters, but the chance that MDMA could cause such
an experience is NOT one he is prepared for (maybe some day, but SWIM
is not mentally, physically, or spiritually prepared for such an
existence). Someone please convince SWIM that MDMA will not
induce such a POWERFUL state of being, he would rather work his way up
and be comfortable and experienced with his mind and body beyond what
it is now then experience such a state and go completely psychotic.

[dmax]

20mg 2ci + 14 mg 5meo-dipt.



Ayahuasca could have done it if it weren't so damn unpleasant.

[raven3davis]

SWIM has since had quite a few ++++ with Dimitri. SWIMs first ++++ was on 4 hits of acid, which were the green monsters. These hits were incredibly potent and super clean and produced 0 anxiety. They could have even been ALD-52, but that is pure speculation. The ++++ was something words cant describe, a feeling of pure bliss and oneness with the universe and all of its beings. I could see how everything worked together as one, and how everything is just part of something larger than us. All dark things were made clear for those few hours. I had completely forgoten that I had taken cid and I could not comprehend why no one else was experiencing what I was. I thought this was my normal state of mind and that it would go on forever. I remember thinking "how the hell am I going to do calculus???" The ++++ with DMT is completely different than the LSd ++++, much more chaotic, but just as enlightening. The LSD ++++ was definitely my best psychadelic trip. That was when I realized there is much more to this life than money and materialism. This is when my spiritual quest to find out who I am and why I am here began. LSD AND DMT are my top two drugs of all time because they are just so damn enlightening and so fucking powerful, nothing else comes anywhere close, except shrooms, which are a completely different story......................PEACE LOVE AND LSD FOR LIFE

[VictorBorge]

^^ Are you taking the DMT orally?

I'm not entirely sure I've ever had a ++++, although I've certainly had my
share of ego death. It was always been either too intense to be
rememberable, or too aware-feeling to be considered that intense. The
best combination of intensity and memorability I've ever had was from
25mg of 2C-E. The most intensity has been with DMT, 80mg smoked and
150mg orally. The most thought-provoking has definitely been with LSD,
a 10-strip (although 200ug is usually enough).

[mithras]

SWIM grew some killer cubes that he took... he thought he was dyingand strange creatures came and told him to let go...then off to a surreal jeweled sea with floating bright green islands...sky opened up like film breaking in a movie projecter...clear perfect light enveloped, time/space broke down, pure bliss...god it was fantastic!! started reading about mysticism after that, so profound!

[Sick Jack]

I had several real intense experiences with 2ct2, one with 20mg at a DnB party, the second with 30mg at home.

I think that this experiences share some caracteristics with what is called a ++++ experience.

30mg at home : well prepared, relaxed/happy mood, accompanied with good friends. Approx. 3h after ingestion, I decide to isolate myself in my bathroom in complet obscurity, listening to electronic music (prodigy,asian dub foundation).
When I was a child, I was fucking scared by the darkness. So this was a fight, a confrontation, betweem me and my fears.
The visuals were really strong, the darkness becoming slowly alive, moving, morphing and colored.
I begin to dance, following the music. So after, I have the feeling that the geometric structures that I'm comtemplating work as a shower on my soul, eliminating my fears and weaknesses. And sudddenly I stopped dancing, a little bit confused, unable to be sure if I was somewhere at the end of the galaxy or lost somewhere in my mind... Macro-cosm, micro-cosm.....

The global feeling that emerged from this experience, was a deep and sincere feeling of gratitude for all the Creation, who permitted me once in my life to experience such state of mind.

20mg at DnB party : I love drum'n'bass, which simply work as an electric shock on my nervous system. So I decided to exprience T2 in such setting. A bit nervous at the beginning, but the first waves of the stuff rapidly reassured me. Good light-show : green lasers illuminating the palce.

I think I followed the music for approx. 4h, drinking water regularly. At the end of the party, instead of beeing tired I had more energy than at the beginning. I felt has if my personnality/ego/what so ever was kind of Lotus, which petals were completely open in order to let my Essence, my Soul, my Spirit shine to the outside. I felt like a cosmic mischievous leprechaun, as if I wasn't young but the Youth itself, or at least its energy. And once again, a deep and sincere gratitude.

Extreme joy and gratitude, but I can't say that I completely lost touch with reality, even if I think that my experience at home could had lead to such Samadhi.

Peace&Light

Sick Jack

[kaniz]

Even my best E-role where the music is one with me and i am a part of
the beat, that doesnt come close to what a +++++ of a strong LSD/LSA or
Mushroom trip can give you.



having the sensation of your body being ripped to shreds then shot across the universe in one euphoric bliss...

[Silence_Inc]

on lsd - 5 hours of total bliss - no mind - pure boeddha hood ... this happend 3 times to me. very gratefull ... it changed the course of my entire life and being.


than on mdma i also has some very nice experiences - i watched ''amelie poulain'' on it ... the movie suddenly had so much more depth - it was pure buddhism ... the mdma added a spiritual side to the night ... where it normally creates soemthing less real - that night - we got closer to reality ...

[marleysherb]

Only 1 ++++ experience for swim, not counting the 3 +++ experiences. Salvia 15x. Whew. Very little amount, but very scary. Anxiety hit the roof on that one. Dimitri soon though, SWIM used mars' tek and now has around a gram. ;]

[xpr´k]

ide love to hear some tripreports off the guys claiming they had a ++++ on XTC. Its not that i dont believe you guys i'm just trying to grasp the concept of what exactly makes a trip a ++++ expierence and since i got a decent bit of experience with XTC, those reports would make the most sense to me.


The hardest ive tripped on E goes like this. I got my hands on some very high dose pills (blue mitsu's) and on the night i took em i went out for a pack of sigarettes. Riding my bike just felt so extremely good i decided to just go ride about a bit instead of heading back home. At one point it started to rain, i was near a shortcut trough a reservation which ends basicly in my back yard and i figured it would just be great fun in the dark and the trees would cover me from the rain a bit (left my jacket home).


I was allready rolling VERY hard at that time, my vision was extremely shaky and it just kept wondering off in every direction, i couldnt focus on anything anymore and just felt extremely happy. Anyways i drove in the woods and from then on i only seem to remember bits and pieces. Somehow i managed to get of the path and i found myself totally lost in a pitchdark forrest (i know on the back of my hand btw).


I tried finding my way back but every direction i tried i kept hitting barbwire somewhere in my struggle i had taken 1 extra pill although i'm not sure exactly when. I do remember i puked my guts out when it hit.


Then i had a great idea , i was carrying a turbo lighter and i decided to 'shed some light' on the situation. As soon as i hit the starter and the total darkness was driven off, i saw i was surrounded by elderly people all holding a bike. I was very amazed yet puzzled, there was something weird about em cause they didnt seem to respondto my presence. I walked up to them and held the lighter closer and then they suddenly vanished midair.


The lighter idea worked though, i managed to find a path , although i couldnt make out exactly where i was still. Walking this path i started seeing signs ofa local realestater every few meters.


At some point i managed to recognise were i was, i managed to wander off quite a bit it seemed (still dont understand how i got from where i started to where i ended up, maybe i'm missing bits). It was quite a long walk but i felt extremely good and didnt mind 1 bit. When i finally emerged from the woods 3 to 4 hours had past.


Next day i woke up extremely happy despite a pretty bad XTC hangover (had very little to drink) in fact this trip was the only i time i really had to reason myself to not try it again the following night.


But amasement and joy over what i had been through turned into disbelieve and a slight fear. I couldnt really recognise myself in my memories. (im afraid of the dark, and i dunno if anyone has ever walked alone in a pitchdark forrest in the middle of the night, it equals dark++++) I also started realising how dangerous the entire thing had been. In total i consumed 3 very potent pills , was walking cross country dragging my bike around for hours which is fysicly demanding and i only 1 sodacan with me which was empty about when i decided to take my shortcut. I had been trowing up because my dosage was to high, and it had been raining all night (11°c) with me only wearing a jeans and hooded sweater.


It was an insane, surreal experience and it took me a few weeks to come to terms with it. Personally i doubt this would be a ++++ but i cant see myself tripping harder tbh, i feel no need for it either.

[dextrorotatory]

I hated reading about people who
tried psychedelic drugs and these drugs had subsequently changed their
lives. </span>I had tried weed, low doses of
LSD and boiled san Pedro cactus juice for a medium mescaline trip (I was quite
the psychonaut eh?) finding it interesting, philosophically intriguing, and overall
quite mind expanding but nothing of ramified consequence. </span>Then I procured 4 grams of psilocybe cubensis
mushrooms. </span>I had heard/read/extrapolated
from psilocybin data that this is a moderate dose so a friend and I split the mushrooms
(in case you’re not a math wiz that’s two grams each) and ate them expecting
vivid visuals and some good fun. </span>


I have no doubt, as previous users
have proposed, that I was at the coveted ++++ state. </span>There was, by no means, conventional euphoria
(this is not a contention against other user’s claim of a euphoric ++++ state,
merely an explanatory step). </span>Then again euphoria
is quite an embodied term bound to our conception of somatic pleasure and a
bound state of mind. </span>I’m sure many
people here can agree that when one reaches the ++++ state they no longer
require (or can find) words to describe the total ego dissolution experienced; to
exists as an infinite being (god, to some) that has no cares, no beginning, no
end, and exists everywhere (omnipresent, if you will). </span>To see nothing and everything at once and
fully understand (without the deleterious arm of subjectivity present) all that
is without the personal reservations and ideas flowing in and tainting this
pure idea. </span>Objects, identities, and
nomenclature are shuffled off and nothing of this world exists to “hold you
down”. </span>It is…intense, to say the
least. </span>I have now come to the conclusion
after an identical experience (1.5 grams this time) at a slightly less
forgiving venue (a NIN concert, cliché I know), that I am hypersensitive to psilocybin
(and yes, before the blaring regiment of caustic remarks comes flowing over my
head, it was very stupid to try a drug I was indicatively hypersensitive to at
a negative concert). </span>This is a commodity
and a curse blessing me with a readily available “super-trip” but also a
dangerous experience every time I try it.


After reading this experience (apologies
for the loquacity, it is my pretentious nature I have trouble shedding) one
might be tempted to classify my outlook as non-linear; one who views things
through the glasses of spirituality and ideals of the hippy days. </span>I wish this could be so, that would allow the
experience to be much more understandable/acceptable. </span>Unfortunately I am severely reductionalistic;
a student of sociobiology, neurology (probably what stimulated me to first
explore this aspect of existence), and quantum mechanics, unable to speculate
on such transient objects as souls and spirits.


Regardless, I now stand corrected
in respect to my view of psychedelics. </span>After
that first ++++ trip I was “born again” in respect to my attitude on
life/love/liberty/ and Euclidian experience.
</span>(again, apologies for the lengthy nature of this post)

Reputation Comments on this post:

Nice post.

[Bajeda]

Swim has only had a few ++++ experiences in his life, but is grateful for all of them.

One was MDMA.

One was DXM (surprisngly!)

One was Shrooms.


All were within the first few times of trying the drug in question and all were during the first few years of actual drug exploration for swim. Very good times. Swim hopes to have another within the next year, though he feels that unless he can get the people and surroundings just right he will need a new substance to try.

[eltimmy]

++++: SWIM took an overly large amount of a certain low-quality research tryptamine, heard a voice thought to be God (but experienced visually, in the mind's eye, as a giant mantid-like insect) , and thought he died. Then he was taken to Hell, where his sins starting with that day were replayed and he regressed into childhood, complete with hearing and understanding the first language he was taught -- different from the language he now speaks and the only one he understands. Different aspects of his personality were brought to light, the deepest, darkest secrets he buried deep within his psyche were brought to the forefront. He was reborn, again and again. Much of this SWIM doesn't remember, or is still pieceing together, but it was incredibly unpleasant experience and yet one the lessons of SWIM wouldn't trade for anything.

The overdose, the actual chance he may have died, the shit he was putting his family and friends through, the actual physical damage possibly suffered from 20mg of 5-MeO-AMT: those he would rip away in an instant if he could, and this selfish attitude was among the first things he suffered for in the spirit realm, or whereever he was, whatever he went through.

SWIM would recommend if someone wants that experience they just eat a lot of mushrooms.

[N0ly]

++++ the very first time SWIM had xtc

[Bajeda]

Since xpr'k asked, I'll post a trip report for MDMA. I'm going to make it in the MDMA forum though, so I'll post the link here after I create it.




Ok, the report itself could be much better but I am quite tired so it didn't come out as smoothly as I thought. Let me know what you think though. Its hard to recreate a '++++' experience in words, but I think I got a few points that helped make the experience what it was.

Throw me some feedback if you don't mind if you manage to read it.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21650

[prescription]

SWIM has had said experience with smoked DMT, mushrooms (not exactly sure about the species) and DXM.