Opinions - Have You Ever Taken Real Lsd?

[enquirewithin]

In 1997 Bruce Eisner wrote an article in the HIGH TIMES called LSD Purity - Cleanliness is next to godliness.

http://www.bruceeisner.com/writings/...sd_purity_from. html

He says that all acid since the sixties is poor quality and will not give you an authentic LSD experience due to impurities in manufacture. He claims that 'if you are an acidhead, chances are you've never taken LSD." (He still adheres to this opinion.)

Is this nostalgia and oneupmanship or can the argument be substantiated? What do you think?

[raven3davis]

I have read that article. I could not tell you the purity of the best acid I have taken, but I will tell you that it was pure enough to give me the authentic LSD experience.

[Lysergic Acid]

You are getting the real deal most likley. There arn't that many
drugs that would be active in the amounts of lsd you get on blotter.

[Hyperreal]

Yeah, Eisner really overstates the case in that article. None of the claims of other drugs in blotters or microdots really hold up - PCP take about 4mg to trip, ALD-52 is manufactured from LSD anyway and decomposes into LSD, amphetamine or strychinine, ridiculous, way too high dosage and completely different effects. LSD on the streets may be impure, but it's still LSD.

[fishinabottle]

His point on ergot derivates as impurities is valid though.

[enquirewithin]

Its an interesting argument. I have had some correspondence with
him, and he is quite sure about this! Jonathan Ott states that
PharmChem only found LSD as an active ingredient all samples anylysed by
them, so Eisner's argument is 'specious'. However, my memory is that
some acid was considered 'speedy,' was more pushy and had rougher
edges, which could have been caused by tiny ergot derivatives, but does
that mean it was ALL impure in effect?
Edited by: enquirewithin

[fishinabottle]

No, of course not. It´s mainly LSD. Period. Of course, as always the higher purity is preferred - by me at least, but I also prefer "speedy" LSD over no LSD at all.

Eisner transcendens slightly into the pseudoreligious Leary babble with what he writes. LSD is a drug - no religion, although for a drug it has a damn lot good spirit compared to all other drugs known to me.

/fish

I think it's still going to be real LSD, but your also going to have a bit of impurities in it. Which is probably wut makes it speedy. It's kinda like the difference between bathtub crank and glass. Real glass is 100% pure Methamphetamine, but some bathtub crank maybe 40% pure with a bunch of battery acid, aluminum, wutever, wutever, to get you going.


Same principle for LSD. I don't think we'll ever have the kind of LSD they had in the 60's.

[ChemicallyBound]

Look,100mcgs of "acid" , if pure or not is going to trip you even if only 50% pure. the other 50% of anything ELSE (50mcgs) is not going to react or give you any symptoms at all. not amphtetamine, strychnine, ergotaminewhatever at that dose level. What I'msuggesting is that this is an all or none reaction. LSD is LSD, period. The only thing that changes is if you got 200, 100 or 50 mcgs in your dose when you thought you were getting more


and yes, the LSD that they thought they were putting on the blotter may be contaminated with ISO_LSD, but that just comes back to my original argument that you may not , or may , be recieving 100%.


in any case , only LSD will have any discernable effects at that dose levelEdited by: ChemicallyBound

[fishinabottle]

the other 50% of anything ELSE (50mcgs) is not going to react or give you any symptoms at all..

Many substances give effects at thus low levels, in special ergot derivates which are prone to make most of these impurities, if not alone so in interaction with LSD.

The effects are not automatically unpleasant - many people enjoy "speedy" acid more than "mellow" acid.

Just a matter of taste.
/fish

[mf400]

The difference between "speedy" and "mellow" acid is ALD and LSD. I believe its ALD that is more mellow, and ALD is altered LSD. Other than that, "impurities" is being tossed around loosely only to mean not as concentrated LSD. You CANNOT put any adulterants into a single LSD dose, it's too small.


For the 60s type acid trip, you can simply enjoy it by eating a shit load of acid, my "friend" once took 7 hits of good stuff, everything was melting, the skyline into the sky, buildings into the ground. "He" was still mildly hallucinating during the come-down 12 hours later. Was fine when he woke up the next day though.

[fishinabottle]

"The difference between "speedy" and "mellow" acid is ALD and LSD"
Thats a common myth.

fish

[enquirewithin]

Originally Posted by fishinabottle

"The difference between "speedy" and "mellow" acid is ALD and LSD"
Thats a common myth.

fish

Yes-- ALD changes into LSD -25. Does anyone have any other ideas about 'speedy' acid?Edited by: enquirewithin

[fishinabottle]

Ergot related impurities. Thats what this thread is actually about.

/fish

[Chaote]

also take into account how average blotter doses have declined since the 60's, I read that an avergae blotter in the 60's could contain anywhere from 300-500 mcg and todays at most is 80-90 mcg

[searcher]

I've experienced real LSD

[mf400]

Originally Posted by fishinabottle

"The difference between "speedy" and "mellow" acid is ALD and LSD"
Thats a common myth.

I was basing that statement purley on other's accounts and an article I read on erowid: "LSD produced brain waves associated with intense concentration and anxiety, ALD produced brain waves showing a more relaxed mental state." (If ALD just turned back into LSD, what would be the point in making ALD?).


http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_ald52.shtml

[ChemicallyBound]

other ergot impurites are not discernably active at 25-50mcgs


they are active at 1-2mgs, at least a 50X difference,


You are telling me that you will be able to feel an effect from 25mcgs of ergine or isoergine? I highly doubt it, many published reports have said these are without effect until you reach mg doses

I think it has alot to do with the way it was made. I'm pretty sure LSD in the 60's was as pure as you can get. I don't kno if it was "Speedy" or "Mellow" wutever it was it was the real deal.


Nowadays anyone with a lot of chemistry knowledge can make LSD, and some of the chemicals are so hard to get that people now start taking shortcuts when they make acid. Meaning they use impure chemicals which means more of an impure product. Which means a lot less of a trip.

[fishinabottle]

I'm pretty sure LSD in the 60's was as pure as you can get.

Thats another myth. Only the pharmaceutical Sandoz LSD was as pure as it can get all LSD made clandestine was in the first batches not so pure, got better lateron. Everytime the chemist switched the method of production or got into a new lab the first batches were mostly somehow impure - and they got not thrown away. Later int he process qulity raised.
Not to forget that a lot of PCP was marketed as "acid" then too!

/fish

[mariecurie]

Originally Posted by crazyaznX

Nowadays anyone with a lot of chemistry knowledge can make LSD

As a chemist, I must disagree. The LSD synthesis is one of the most
difficult that you could attempt. Virtually anyone could make something
like methamphetamine, but LSD is another league altogether. If you have
a PhD in Organic Chemistry, then it's possible you'd be able to make
it. Otherwise you would end up producing a poison or blowing up your
lab, more than likely.

Why do you think I said, "Anyone with A LOT of chemistry knoledge?"


I've never made it, I don't kno how, and I don't kno how good of a chemist you'd have to be, but I kno you need A LOT of chemistry knowledge.

[ChemicallyBound]

Marie, I don't know y u would say it is hard to make for a chemist, hard/impossible for a lay person but not for someone that has gone thru the whole curriculum. ; esp. if organic and peptide chemistry was your thing.


back on topic:


most processes I am sure give what is assumed pure. I suspect that if it feels different, it is the Lsd isomerizing to iso-lsd in the process or later handling (unkowingly) and not malicious adulteration of the product. iso-lsd is formed quite readily from lsd and has zero effect

[fishinabottle]

I suspect that if it feels different, it is the Lsd isomerizing to iso-lsd in the process or later handling (unkowingly) and not malicious adulteration of the product. iso-lsd is formed quite readily from lsd and has zero effect

Thats pretty unlogical isn´t it? Something what has zero effect can hardly be blamed for a different "feel".

/fish

[Solidly-here]

If it's LSD-25 ... you will know it.


All this talk about impurities. If you are tripping, there is enough LSD in there. If you're NOT tripping, ____.


In a (more) perfect world (like the 60s). People could afford to take the time to make pharmaceutical grade AND brag about it. Today, however, if a person handed out a chemical-analysis chart with each blotter, this would probably attract the attention of the local police forces. Then, they would want to come and talk to you, personally, about the great amount of care you used to prepare it.


So, instead of obsessing about impurities, I take a leap-of-faith, and believe that any impurity there will not cause cancer. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. If (or when) I cook-up a batch myself, I will have the satisfaction of knowing how polluted it is with impurities. Until then, I will trust the good intentions of other, fellow psychonauts.Edited by: Solidly-here