Combinations - Opiates interferring with LSD effects???

[Metal_Ren]

Hopefully a few of you could help with a few questions Swim has.

Swim has been on opiates for about 10 years.

Took 3/4 blotter a few weeks ago - 1st time in about 10 years as well....

Effects were LSD..[85-90% positive, based on many previous doses...]

Effects were minimal compared to memories of past uses.... True Swim's dose was low compared to highschool days of 1-3-4-6-8 hits. The first year only 1 was needed, but quality changed as did the chemical on the blotters..... anyways thats something else....

Problem Swim had is that most of the perceptual and thought process' he wanted and expected was almost null and void....

A week later - Swim took 2 hits.... [found in highschool that 4 days between doses was fine. A week or more wasn't needed for full effect/doubling-up etc....]
More visuals experienced, more intense up.... yet couldn't get into the thinking/analyzation of it all - the headspace games you tend to do with yourself regarding life, problems, etc..... Swim did have a good 10 minutes[I think...[maybe 5]] of Family Guy characters talking to him through his own thoughts.....but that was the extent of it....

Question and info Swim is looking for ...... --- >> Clarification and aggreement that the opiates are indeed interferring with what would otherwise be a great night..... ?? ?? ?? .... OR.... could Swim have DOC ..?? or something similar??? Is the oxycontin and morphine blocking brain function with the LSD ??/ as Swim would assume is the case ???

Much research has been done on this, and SWIM is still pretty sure it was genuine LSD.... based on effects, time, blotter, and past experiences...., and not DOC or something similar....

Either low grade....or dose.... or perhaps Swim's brain is still tolerant in some ways due to A LOT of use and high doses 10+ years ago ...???

Insight and help on this would be great, as Swim is planning another trip or 2 very soon... It may become 1 trip though to maximize effect.... which at this point Swim realizes won't be much different in intensity...

Swim thinks it's probably from being used to such high doses in the past, on top of the opiates in his system.....

Anyone else have opinions ???

[enquirewithin]

Opiates will negate most of the interesting effects of LSD. Tolerance to LSD is gone within about 10 days to a month.

[EyesOfTheWorld]

This is debatable.......SWIM concedes the point in some ways, but SWIMself is an opiate addict, hence pretty much always on opiates, and LSD still effects SWIM the same way it used to. Of course it could be just that swim's addict brain is so used to opies it's not an issue, if swiy is a recreational opiate user, leave them out of the mix next time and see if that helps.
Other issues: Judging by swiOP's age, OP was in high school 10-14 years ago. The quality and reliability of LSD back then was much better (pre-Pickard bust, Phish tour still going strong, etc) Nowadays asshats throw anything, or nothing on a blotter/in a vial and call it LSD, and even when real LSD is obtained it is often weak/diluted. Casualty of the current high wholesale prices.

[enquirewithin]

SWIM has never really been an opiate addict. He has found experimentally mixing heroin with LSD was not rewarding. The two drugs has some opposite effects. LSD with opium is slightly more interesting, but not something SWIM would do twice. If psychedelics are 'mind manifesting' opiates are 'mind negating'. There is no synergy between psychedelics and opiates. Perhaps opiates can help take the potential anxiety away from a trip.

Many junkies hate psychedelics (such as William Burroughs) but apparently not all. No comment on 'the quality of acid these days' (that argument has been going on for decades)-- without laboratory analysis who can really tell. If you had got it from Sandoz you could be sure! RC's or mushrooms are much more likely to be the 'real thing.' Mushrooms haven't got less potent since the heady days of the 60s.

[EyesOfTheWorld]

Agreed, a lot of junkies do hate psychedelics, SWIM just isn't one of them. SWIM does hate cannabis for its anxiety-inducing issues so he sees your point............as for quality acid "these days", it's definitely still around, swiy just has to look a little harder than 10-15 yrs ago (and probably pay a little more)

[Metal_Ren]

First drug Swim tried was LSD in 93 or 94.... Then he did a lot of it for 4 years - Stopped after 4 years for 10 years, until a few weeks ago.

96-98 - It was mostly DO[_] or whatever else would fit on blotter. Swim thinks LSD was found once or twice in that time period. But didn't look for it like he used to in the first 2 years.

And no Swim doesnt use opiates recreationaly anymore due to pain. Has been taking 200 mg oxycontin + 15-30mg morphine for years//Used to be 300mg morphine. Swim's body is physically addicted to them, yet Swim can never catch a damn buzz ...

Most of the time Swim has to lower dose over a week or two, just to lower levels so that pills will work more effective if Swim takes an extra one when hurtin. Sometimes then Swim will get a buzz briefly. If Swim didn't do this monthly of lowering and then back to full amount daily, - he would be always back at the doctors asking for a higher dose or more pills.

Tolerance build-up is too fast with those meds.

Good news is that when Swim took 3/4 tab - even that much worked better on pain 20-24 hours. It could have worked longer as well, but Swim started worrying about his body's possible physical withdrawl from not taking his daily opiates....Opiates can be a bitch...

Swim wishes he could get a small amount 5-10 or so and test tiny amounts for pain relief.

Anyone else that reads this know of any FlyingPigs that have tested or have any experience with LSD and pain relief?? [Im going to start a new topic for this soon.]

[enquirewithin]

Cannabis is well known for for it pain reliving qualities-- in small doses.

[EyesOfTheWorld]

Hmmm......LSD and pain relief......well, it is quite good at distracting swiyourormine body from the sensation of pain, not sure if it actually has any painkilling qualities, although, as an opiate user with chronic pain, SWIM will say that often when dosing LSD he notices he doesn't need his pain medication during the trip, when usually he needs to fix every 6 hours or so. Whether there is a scientific reason for this or if it is just typical neglect of the body while tripping, SWIM doesn't know. Where are our psychopharmacology geeks?

[Songcycle67]

SWIM can't find the study, but he knows for a fact that in clinical trials in terminal patients with severe pain LSD relieved their pain completely for up to 97 hours. Whether this is because they were new to the experience, disorientated, etc. or it is an actual product of the experience is unknown.

So then...SWIM has taken LSD with oxycodone, heroin, morphine, dicanol, palfium, etc. and never noticed diminished effects from the LSD. These chemicals, you have to remember, all work on serotonin. If my understanding of them is correct, all of these drugs bind to certain pleasure receptors and after a while your brain just starts needing more and more synthetic pleasure (thus tolerance). Now that alone would significantly decrease effects of a standard dose, IMHO. If SWIY is taking 200mg oxycodone a day then your body would hardly be satisfied with the euphoria/buzz that a 120ug hit would generally produce (equivalent to a really strong hash high).

Dunno about the decreased visuals, though.

I notice SWIY didn't speculate as to how much was in their "hits." I'm sure they know that not all hits are equal. There are some that can contain as little as 30ug and as much as 400ug per dose. Perhaps getting a baseline figure from the dealer (which will most assuredly be a misguess) as to the potency would be a good starting point. It's always a good rule of thumb to take the potency given (i.e. 200ug) and give it an error margin of plus/minus 60ug--so if 200ug is the said dose, it's probably between 140-260ug.


Edit:

"A week later - Swim took 2 hits.... [found in highschool that 4 days between doses was fine. A week or more wasn't needed for full effect/doubling-up etc....]
More visuals experienced, more intense up.... yet couldn't get into the thinking/analyzation of it all - the headspace games you tend to do with yourself regarding life, problems, etc..... Swim did have a good 10 minutes[I think...[maybe 5]] of Family Guy characters talking to him through his own thoughts.....but that was the extent of it...."

This sounds like a classic experience with DOB/DOM. How long did it take for the drug to come on? Not the peak...just how long before they noticed the effects?

[Metal_Ren]

Originally Posted by songcycle67

"A week later - Swim took 2 hits.... [found in highschool that 4 days between doses was fine. A week or more wasn't needed for full effect/doubling-up etc....]
More visuals experienced, more intense up.... yet couldn't get into the thinking/analyzation of it all - the headspace games you tend to do with yourself regarding life, problems, etc..... Swim did have a good 10 minutes[I think...[maybe 5]] of Family Guy characters talking to him through his own thoughts.....but that was the extent of it...."

This sounds like a classic experience with DOB/DOM. How long did it take for the drug to come on? Not the peak...just how long before they noticed the effects?

I meant that through major use in highschool I noticed my body can re-dose every 4 days without diminished effects. The 2 hits Swim took was 2 weeks ago. [dosed 3 times this month] All same batch...

This last time Swim only took 1, but smoked a lot more marijuana, and that seemed to enhance the cid as it always has in the past, and it helped bypass the mental block the opiates have been giving him. The 1 ended up being a better trip than taking 2, due to timing of bong-hits, but lasted an hour or 2 less in intensity, and less visual waves/image sharpening during last 6 hours.

As I said Ive taken lsd and have come across the others many times. This is Lsd Im almost positive.
3/4 tab = 30 minutes gradual increase and bang 2:00 mark or so... if remember correctly.
2 tab = 20 minutes = Took right after some pizza. Hit a lot faster and more intense, and it seemed to be helped by the food.... Tripping by 45-50min
1 tab = 40-50 minutes = Mainly empty stomach - Trippin by 1:20
All three doses were taken within a 2 week period of about 4-5 days between each... It's been 10+ years since last time. 1st was a test, 2nd was planned, but was supossed to happen a month or 2 later....heh And 3rd was last minute boredom solution.
I forgot how great it can be, but Swim overdid it in highschool and could see it happen again if not careful. And more its done, the less magical it becomes as many know. Swim eventually got bored and sick of it, plus all the DO[_] garbage making its rounds....

Peak stopped after 5-7-6 Hours respectively. Nice high/buzz enjoyed 8-12 Hours, [partly from pain meds I think as well]Visuals ended after 7-8 hours.

The effects werent taking 2-3-4 Hours....Ive been there a few times and have had an ambulance pick up a friend due to mix-ups with other chems... Was in his head though... He made Swims promise to get him one and get him to the hospital, but when paramedics arrived he sobered up and was fine....He ended up putting himself through some hell that he didnt need to....= ( that was a rough time for him....

Swim is a very experienced user that prefers to trip alone.... but has handled every situation you can imagine... like 8 [300u] for a high-school dance and talking to the 3 principals for more than half of it.... ouch...that was tough for Swim. Think he has a perma-grin the whole time just because of the absurdity of it...

Swim thinks, but has no way of knowing forsure, that these tabs are prob in the 80-250u range, and good chance they have degraded due to some air/heat exposure. Swim has had many times of 2000u + doses. And many other high doses.. that now that he knows more about those other chems, - he knows he came close to death a few times due to the 4 hour wait + taking 3-4 extra tabs that were already heavily dosed.

And Swim noticed again that pain relief was BETTER with the lsd, than with the opiates, and pain was at a lower threshold for 48 or so hours.
Swim was careful to monitorsitting position and posture etc...

Swim has timed many times when sitting on opiates how long till back spasms, or cramps, or knees pulse etc.... And experimented with the lsd. Swim was able to sit in one position without moving legs/back for a much longer time than when on only opiates. Where there was pain after 10-15 minutes earlier in the day, there was none after an hour in same position etc.... Tested many times now throughout 2 of the trips. And it seems there is something to this forsure.
I know Ive read about testing for patients with terminal cancer and pain///but Im unsure if they mean the pain of knowledge of death and dealing with that inevitable factor...

Metal_Ren added 3 Minutes and 23 Seconds later...

Edit Delete.......ABOVE PLEASE.....

Metal_Ren added 2 Minutes and 5 Seconds later...

PLEASE DELETE: - FORGOT TO SWIM A COUPLE AREAS, and could look like talking about myself...THX someone