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  #1  
Old 08-02-2009, 17:56
riaahacker riaahacker is offline
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Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

SWIM has been looking around this forum about this combination and has read mixed opinions and views. Some say that this combination is dangerous or should be avoided, some say its the perfect synergy. I started to do some research and came up with my own theory of how this combination works and hopefully I can help some swimmers who request information on this combination.

We know amphetamines exert there rewarding and reinforcing effects by a reuptake inhibition and release of dopamine in the nucleus accumbens as evident by the increased DA concentrations in the nucleus accumbens in DAT-KO mice

Quote:
Behavioral and biochemical studies suggest that dopamine (DA) plays a role in the reinforcing and addictive properties of drugs of abuse. Recently, this hypothesis has been challenged on the basis of the observation that, in mice genetically lacking the plasma membrane dopamine transporter [DAT-knock out (DAT-KO)], cocaine maintained its reinforcing properties of being self-administered and inducing place preference, despite the failure to increase extracellular dopamine in the dorsal striatum. Here we report that, in DAT-KO mice, cocaine and amphetamine increase dialysate dopamine in the medial part of the nucleus accumbens. Moreover, reboxetine, a specific blocker of the noradrenaline transporter, increased DA in the nucleus accumbens of DAT-KO but not of wild-type mice; in contrast, GBR 12909, a specific blocker of the dopamine transporter, increased dialysate dopamine in the nucleus accumbens of wild-type but not of DAT-KO mice. These observations provide an explanation for the persistence of cocaine reinforcement in DAT-KO mice and support the hypothesis of a primary role of nucleus accumbens dopamine in drug reinforcement.

Carboni E, Spielewoy C, Vacca C, Nosten-Bertrand M, Giros B, Di Chiara G.
Department of Toxicology and Consiglio Nazionale
delle Ricerche Center for Neuropharmacology,
University of Cagliari, 09126 Cagliari, Italy,
and
Neurobiology and Psychiatry Faculte de Medicine de Creteil,
94000 Creteil, France
Benzodiazepines also exhibit a sort of euphoria that people tend to enjoy but this is not caused by the same mechanism, in fact midazolam led to a decrease of extracelluar DA in the nucleus accumbens. This may lead to a reduction in amphetamine reward and dosage might have to be adjusted accordingly.

Quote:
In vivo microdialysis was used to assess the effects of acute and repeated injections of the benzodiazepine midazolam on extracellular dopamine (DA) concentrations in the nucleus accumbens. Acute administration of midazolam (5 mg/kg, SC) elicited a 22% decrease in extracellular DA in the nucleus accumbens but failed to affect DA concentrations in the striatum. Similarly, six spaced intravenous infusions of midazolam, at a dose that has previously been found to support self-administration (0.05 mg per infusion), produced a 50% decrease in extracellular DA in the nucleus accumbens. In order to assess the effects of subchronic midazolam injections, two groups of rats were given injections of saline or midazolam (5 mg/kg, SC) for 14 days (two injections per day). A subsequent challenge injection of midazolam (5 mg/kg) decreased extracellular DA in the nucleus accumbens by 25% in both groups, indicating that neither tolerance nor sensitization occurred during the repeated drug administration. These experiments indicate (1) that midazolam differentially affects meso-accumbens and nigrostriatal DA neurons, and (2) that the midazolam-induced decrease in extracellular DA in the nucleus accumbens is not affected by repeated drug administration. The data further suggest that the rewarding effects of midazolam are not associated with increased release of DA in the nucleus accumbens.

Department of Psychiatry, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada.
Benzodiazepines also have an interesting effect on heart rate and blood pressure.

Quote:
The actions of benzodiazepines are due to the potentiation of the neural inhibition that is mediated by gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA). Practically all effects of the benzodiazepines result from their actions on the ionotropic GABA(A) receptors in the central nervous system. Benzodiazepines do not activate GABA(A) receptors directly but they require GABA. The main effects of benzodiazepines are sedation, hypnosis, decreased anxiety, anterograde amnesia, centrally mediated muscle relaxation and anti-convulsant activity. In addition to their action on the central nervous system, benzodiazepines have a dose-dependent ventilatory depressant effect and they also cause a modest reduction in arterial blood pressure and an increase in heart rate as a result of a decrease of systemic vascular resistance. The four benzodiazepines, widely used in clinical anaesthesia, are the agonists midazolam, diazepam and lorazepam and the antagonist flumazenil. Midazolam, diazepam and flumazenil are metabolized by cytochrome P450 (CYP) enzymes and by glucuronide conjugation whereas lorazepam directly undergoes glucuronide conjugation. CYP3A4 is important in the biotransformation of both midazolam and diazepam. CYP2C19 is important in the biotransformation of diazepam. Liver and renal dysfunction have only a minor effect on the pharmacokinetics of lorazepam but they slow down the elimination of the other benzodiazepines used in clinical anaesthesia. The duration of action of all benzodiazepines is strongly dependent on the duration of their administration. Based on clinical studies and computer simulations, midazolam has the shortest recovery profile followed by lorazepam and diazepam. Being metabolized by CYP enzymes, midazolam and diazepam have many clinically significant interactions with inhibitors and inducers of CYP3A4 and 2C19. In addition to pharmacokinetic interactions, benzodiazepines have synergistic interactions with other hypnotics and opioids. Midazolam, diazepam and lorazepam are widely used for sedation and to some extent also for induction and maintenance of anaesthesia. Flumazenil is very useful in reversing benzodiazepine-induced sedation as well as to diagnose or treat benzodiazepine overdose.

Olkkola KT, Ahonen J.
Department of Anaesthesiology
Benzodiazepines also have been shown to reduce turnover and release of serotonin and norepinphrine which might contribute to their depressant effects.

Quote:
The anxiety-reducing effects of minor tranquilizers in the rat conflict test were mimicked by serotonin antagonists and by p-chlorophenylalanine, an inhibitor of serotonin synthesis; the depressant effects of the minor tranquilizers were mimicked by norepinephrine antagonists. Intraventricular injections of serotonin led to a suppression of behavior, and also antagonized the anxiety-reducing action of benzodiazeprines. Intraventricular injections of norepinephrine led to a release of punished behavior from suppression, and also antagonized the depressant action of benzodiazepines. The anxiety-reducing activity, and the decrease in serotonin turnover induced by benzodiazepines, were maintained over repeated doses, whereas depressant activity, and the decrease induced in norepinephrine turnover, both rapidly underwent tolerance. Tranquilizers may exert their anxiety-reducing effects by a reduction of serotonin activity in a behaviorally suppressive punishment system, and they may exert their depressant effects by a reduction of norepinephrine activity in a behaviorally facilitatory reward system.

Wise, C. David; Berger, Barry D.; Stein, Larry
This can lead to a reduction in anxiety, heart rate, and locomotor activity induced by amphetamine.

In conclusion, this combination while appearing to be safe enough, one might need to account for dosage adjustments as benzodiazepines might reduce the rewarding and focusing effects of amphetamine. They also might reduce heart rate and anxiety during amphetamine exposure which might be positive for some. Hope this helps some people out there.

Happy SWIMming

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  #2  
Old 18-02-2009, 09:36
Laszlo1 Laszlo1 is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

Swiy's research is interesting, but, speaking from first hand experience, benzos dont really add that much to the amphetamine experience. Swim once took a line of 30mgs adderall, was feeling it a little, and then decided to take 1mg xanax. After that 1mg pill, all feelings of the 30mg line stopped. Swim then took another 30mgs insufflated, and felt just as little. Shortly after he went to sleep. It was a remarkable fail, and the pills had been pricey at the time. Ultimately, a little bit of anxiety and jaw clenching just add to the spirit of the tweaky fun, so swim would say just take the good with the bad, rather than risk nullifying the good times over some petty side effects.

Also, drugs that slow heart rate don't necessarily make them safer to take with drugs that elevate heart rate... Swim thinks the masses of speedball deaths can speak to that fact.
  #3  
Old 14-03-2009, 23:53
benzowashington benzowashington is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

To follow along with the subject of this thread, swim has been doing extensive research (reading the forum for two hours along with google) on amphetamine and benzo combos. Swim took a 50mg Vyvanse at 10 this morning, and just now (it's almost 7pm) took a .5mg clonapezam. She has the understanding that this combo is dangerous in high dosage, but from her research Vyvanse 30mg = 20mg adderall. Couple this fact with the very slow release of Vyvanse, but at the same time not forgetting the long half-life of clonapezam.

From reading forums about these specific "cocktails", this dosage of Vyvanse and benzo is very low considered to other experiences and should be fine, right? Or should she start sticking her finger down her throat now?
  #4  
Old 14-03-2009, 23:56
ganjahero420 ganjahero420 is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

swim has found together thy kidan cancel eachother out with almost always the amp overpowering the benzo. however, the benzos are a lifesaver for sleep and the amp comewond.
  #5  
Old 15-03-2009, 20:08
riaahacker riaahacker is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

Very interesting, benzodiazepines seem to literally lower the concentrations of the very neurotransmitters that amphetamine seems to increase, maybe a higher dosage of amphetamine is in order to balance the drop caused by benzodiazepines?

To swibenzowashington:


I have no reason to believe the combination of amphetamines and benzodiazepines are dangerous as many people theraputically use this combo and benzodiazepines are used in cases of amphetamine overdose.


Ahh, pharmacology is such a cool topic
  #6  
Old 26-03-2009, 06:55
Grabnar Grabnar is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

this is a very dangerous game swiy are playing , consuming substances that have different effects on your blood pressure at different half lives is serious micromanagement, swim reccomends u hav sum1 nearby just incase ^_^

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This doesn't make sense and you didn't explain why that is a problem
  #7  
Old 05-03-2013, 00:57
Kizersozay Kizersozay is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

I'm legally prescribed Adderall and it most definitely helps w/ focus, attention and motivation. Although I have taken the med for months, there is still a slight elevation in mood, albeit not quite like the first time I took it, but there is a slight euphoric effect. I suffer from anxiety as well, so I self-medicate w/ Ativan (2-3mg). I sometimes take both meds together, and other times, I'll take the amp first, then an hour or two later dose w/ Ativan. Now, depending on how much anxiety I experience after my initial does of Adderall, I may or may not take the Ativan. Sometimes I don't experience any anxiety at all and wont' need use the benzo. In my experience, the Ativan does NOT affect or diminish the beneficial effects of Adderall. In fact, Ativan takes away all those annoying and bothersome physical side effects and leaves me feeling relaxed, focused, and undestracted by things that normally would make me angry, upset and cause me to lose focus on whatever I was doing at the time. In conclusion this combination works like a charm for me.

Kizersozay added 7 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by
To swibenzowashington:


I have no reason to believe the combination of amphetamines and benzodiazepines are dangerous as many people theraputically use this combo and benzodiazepines are used in cases of [AUTOLINK
amphetamine[/AUTOLINK] overdose.
THIS.

I agree 100%. I suffer from anxiety and ADD, and the benzos have never had a detrimental effect on Adderall

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I agree w respect to amphetamine & benzodiazapines

Last edited by Kizersozay; 05-03-2013 at 00:57. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #8  
Old 26-05-2013, 20:24
dripdiddydrip dripdiddydrip is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

My pink elephant has always had positive results with total of around 100 to 200mg of really bad quality coke or mdma analogues and 2 to 3 mg of alprazolam, probably because cocaine is a triple reuptake inhibitor (it increases serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine), and mdma and it's analogues only really create excess serotonin in the brain, so while the dopamine and norepinephrine increase's effects are kind of canceled out by benzodiazepine's effect on the GABA receptors; the the serotonin and a slight sedation clearly remains, and it leaves him with a very lovely, bit opiate like content and very euphoric feeling for hours.

The only downside is that he stepped on his coke with a lot of caffeine, and it gives him strong headaches (for which he takes some paracetamol or as you Americans like to call it, acetaminophen), and the continuous redosing with coke or mdma to stop him from falling asleep usually gives him a stomachache (for which he takes up to 3 75mg Zantac tablets, if he has some) as the result of the drip, moderate amount of nausea, and rarely a bit of nosebleed. He's also kind of worried about the impact of all these substances (also who knows with what chemicals his coke was stepped on with or if it's cocaine at all) taken at once have on his kidney and liver.

dripdiddydrip added 18 Minutes and 27 Seconds later...

Also, my pink elephant told me that a glass of wine and a cigarette spaced out during the experience makes it even more pleasurable, probably because of alcohol's sedating qualities and it's formation of cocaethylene in the liver with cocaine, and nicotine's headrush, stimulation and increase in heart rate for about 10 minutes and then slight sedation.

Last edited by dripdiddydrip; 26-05-2013 at 20:24. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #9  
Old 12-06-2013, 14:55
invisible invisible is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

My friend Jim is new to RC's but found when he did MPA he became anxious so he took 1mg of Etizolam which took the anxiety away but not the buzz.
Since then he has taken 1mg of Etizolam in the morning then buzzed away bumping every hr or so (small amounts). Then before bed he is taking 2/3mg of Etizolam at night to sleep, so I think he would say synergy.
  #10  
Old 15-06-2013, 22:55
4-biffen 4-biffen is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by riaahacker View Post
Very interesting, benzodiazepines seem to literally lower the concentrations of the very neurotransmitters that amphetamine seems to increase, maybe a higher dosage of amphetamine is in order to balance the drop caused by benzodiazepines?

To swibenzowashington:


I have no reason to believe the combination of amphetamines and benzodiazepines are dangerous as many people theraputically use this combo and benzodiazepines are used in cases of amphetamine overdose.


Ahh, pharmacology is such a cool topic
Personally i can get some anxiety when i take amphetamine but the bezo deletes that. Plus itīs awesome when you want to sleep

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  #11  
Old 15-06-2013, 23:10
I_MISS_160s I_MISS_160s is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

Going to have to say Synergy. Amphetamines have the tendency to cause sometimes serious anxiety issues. I combat this with a safe small dosage of a benzo (usually Xanax).

This is just one of the greatest most comfortable mixes I know.

Thats my take.

Stay Safe
JJ
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Old 17-06-2013, 17:35
xoluna xoluna is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

So would it be safe to use together as one is a sedative and slows the heart rate and one is a stimulant and heightens the heart rate like would it cause heart failure or cardiac arrest putting it in overdrive?

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  #13  
Old 17-06-2013, 20:01
I_MISS_160s I_MISS_160s is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xoluna View Post
So would it be safe to use together as one is a sedative and slows the heart rate and one is a stimulant and heightens the heart rate like would it cause heart failure or cardiac arrest putting it in overdrive?
This is something I can not answer for you nor can anyone else as there are so many variables such as , what dose you intend to use, your age, weight, size, other drugs you could be on, allergies..

Also, this question is in the wrong spot, you are still new to posting here and thats ok, I would advise you to do the fallowing...

First, Use The Forum Search Engine(UTFSE). You will probably find this topic has already been discussed numerous times already.

Second, If you are not satisfied with my answer or don't find an answer while using TFSE, then you should start your own thread in the appropriate place for this kind of question.

This will help this thread stay on topic. It;s very easy to without intent, derail a thread from it's current topic.

Hope I have been of some help.

Good Luck,

Stay SAfe,
JJ
  #14  
Old 15-07-2013, 16:27
Freedom of Mind Freedom of Mind is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

Taking a benzo might eliminate any anxiety you might get, but it also reduces the positive effects of amphetamines some. So I only take a benzo with amphetamine if I'm going into a situation where I might get anxiety or I feel like I've maybe taken to much amphetamine and want to take it down a notch.
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Old 15-10-2013, 13:44
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

Yes I would say for me personally an my tolerance that benzos don't kill the hi just chill me out or if start getting paranoid that's reason I read this cause been going at it a few days wanted see how it affected others but I can say took nice shot of meth gotta hella rush for me an swallowed 70mg vyvanse to keep it going around ten mins after the shot then i little latter when the vyvanse had me little shakey i took a bout 4 2 mg clonazapam then wont so spun did couple 8mg subutexs another same mg vyvanse an ended up eating a hellava mount of benzos but see if mixed better tried a few 30 temazapams wit a line of more subutex it's 8:30 obvi up for min really need do a sub soon as done o an bfor I wrote this I pluged 3 2 mg Xanaxs I would say its safe in lower than all that but tolerance outa control so lemme get off here an do my subutex ok don't repeat any thing I do use your brain an no your limits b easy
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Old 19-10-2013, 03:40
Stickemupz Stickemupz is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

Although my green bear has little experience with prescription amphetamine, he did enjoy
The effect of 2-4mg's alprazolam while using meth, helped "smooth out the rough edges" such as involuntary twitch and paranoia.
Green Bear has seen this work differently though in other people, seen people having near psychotic reactions. He would like me to point out that his benzo tolerance is massive, so 4mg's alprazolam has minimal effect.
A much lower dose could suffice, especially seeing as OP's question is in reference to adderall.
For harm minimisation's sake, please research this extensively before trying. No one likes an involuntary psych ward visit.

Last edited by Stickemupz; 31-10-2013 at 11:31. Reason: Used a term I shouldn't have. My bad
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Old 30-10-2013, 01:15
Jlabin Jlabin is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

Depends on what the user is looking for. I love this combination.

I've only used vyvanse and klonopin for this combination.

I dose 70mg vyvanse pill and take 2.5mg klonopin (I wouldn't recommend trying this dose if you're benzo-naive)
I get the euphoria from vyvanse, but the klonopin eliminates all or most of the speedy aspects of amphetamine. Depends on the dose of klonopin. A lighter dose might just take the edge off to make the speedy feeling more enjoyable. Taking about 1.5mg-2mg klonopin should relax you significantly and it's anti-anxiety effects may amplify the amphetamine euphoria. For me, I feel relaxed and euphoric. I admit I push it with klonopin when I mix it with vyvanse, so be careful. I always thought of it as the best of both worlds. The euphoria of speed, and you get to enjoy the klonopin without having to worry too much about passing out. Add some good weed into the mix, and you'll feel great. I call the combination of the three "the poor man's codeine" since I find the combination to feel a lot like opiates, but that's just personal opinion. It could feel completely different for someone else.
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Old 19-11-2013, 06:49
ExistentialJ ExistentialJ is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

Agreed; Each of us will respond differently due to a wide range of variables - so before taking this combo, please understand both the physical and psychological impact it may have on you, and then tread lightly...

My roommate is prescribed Clonazapam, 1mg 2X daily for anxiety. On days that he is using stimulants, he does not take the Clonazapam dose in the morning. Instead, at the appropriate time, he will dose on the stimulant, enjoy it, and when it is no longer fun/pleasant/enjoyable (comedown time), he takes 1mg of Clonazapam, eats warm food, and sleeps very well (no nightmares, no shadow people), and awakes refreshed and without the desire to reach for the stimulant. Roommate also finds that if he takes his Clonazapam as prescribed that day, there is virtually no hangover, and more importantly, no "suicide tuesday".

Again, this is only my roommate's experience. He strongly advocates Harm Reduction, respect of the drug, and understanding the concequences of one's own actions.

Be safe. Be happy. Be around to talk about your experience.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:51
RandomSmallham RandomSmallham is offline
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Re: Amphetamine and Benzodiazepines: clash or synergy?

I'm pretty much always on benzos and d-amphet, just for everyday use..

I take some antacids when I first wake up then 30mins later I'll take 200mg caffeine + 40mg valium+ 40mg d-amphet. Then when I start coming down (usually after around 6 hours) I'll take another 20mg dexamphetamine with 4mg xanax. 8 hours or so later just before I sleep I'll usually take 50mg diphenhydramine and 20mg valium, sometimes a bit of dihydrocodeine.

That's pretty much just my daily self medication; when I go to clubs and such is very different. So yeah pretty much I love mixing uppers and downers.

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