RC’s + DXM

[Beeker]

Originally Posted by fatal

I think that if you want to fuck something up in your brain then DXM and a variety of RCs in combination sounds like an excellent idea. three cheers for lesions! hip hip... hooray

can someone please link to the research showing all this wontan DXM death and destruction of the brain. I like the medical texts so SWIM is better informed on this situation.

[Beeker]

nevermind, SWIM tells me that if there is any data out there, it wouldn't matter as he's working with organics again apparently..

Interesting read, if I was SWIM I would think several times before doing DXM again this year..

[fatal]

Originally Posted by Raedon

can someone please link to the research showing all this wontan DXM death and destruction of the brain. I like the medical texts so SWIM is better informed on this situation.

never said it was wontan or widespread... but... dxm causes olney's lesions. thusly taking an intellectual leap of faith the assumption is made that something that can put little itty bitty holes in your brain probably isnt good for you just in general.

[fatal]

Originally Posted by Raedon

can someone please link to the research showing all this wontan DXM death and destruction of the brain. I like the medical texts so SWIM is better informed on this situation.

http://www.third-plateau.org/dangers/olney.txt

That took me all of about 2 or 3 minutes to find on google. if you want to actually do some more research on the topic then google is a good place to start usually. DXM death as a search term turned up alot of results...

[Beeker]

Yea, I know google is out there but people on this board usually tell it like it is. Swim had forgotten about this yesterday..

Thanks for telling him to get off his ass and use his huge expert brain to leave this den of experts for wikipedia's knowledge on DXM.

[fatal]

Originally Posted by Raedon

Yea, I know google is out there but people on this board usually tell it like it is. Swim had forgotten about this yesterday..

Thanks for telling him to get off his ass and use his huge expert brain to leave this den of experts for wikipedia's knowledge on DXM.

you asked for someone to link to relevant research regarding dxm and brain damage. be careful what you wish for i guess...

[bewilderment]

I'm curious, does anyone here know of any scientific articles documenting lesions caused in the human brain due to dxm abuse? As far as I know, it's only been documented in lab animals. Is there any new evidence I haven't stumbled upon yet? I realize that it's highly probable that dxm can cause a great deal of damage when used in extreme excess, but that's true with most drugs. I'm wondering just how damaging dextromethorphan is in comparison with the other myriad drugs which have been shown to cause brain damage.

[fatal]

assume real scientific data with regards to actual physical proof of brain damage from DXM use in humans specifically is going to be hard to come by. the reason being that drugging a human to death and then dissecting their brain to see exactly what it did is not only unethical but it is actually highly illegal... and you wouldnt have it to easy for finding volunteers i dont think.

...

SO since illegal things are just so damn fun most of the time... ill do the study... any volunteers? come on death by dxm for science... dont pretend it doesnt sound like fun.

[fatal]

disclaimer for the above post: the poster has no intent of commiting any acts incongruent with current local legislation in theirs or anyones location. this is a hypothetical humorous account and is not intended to diagnose treat or cure anything that may be loosely interpreted as a disease or disorderby any government of any country

[fatal]

actually come to think of it to if you were to go and sift through some autopsy reports from dxm overdose deaths or deaths due to dxm intoxication(read: stupidity or suicide) i am sure you could find the data you were looking for if the medical professionals who made the report were thorough at all in documenting any possible abnormalities found in the brain of the subject of the report.

[bewilderment]

Yeah, but I'm not really referring to the damage caused by lethal doses. I believe the lethal dose for dxm is around 3,000mg and varies according to the person's weight. I've never really heard of anyone coming anywhere close to this sort of dose when taking dxm recreationally because a dose of even a third of the fatal dose will probably cause someone to black out unless they have some ungodly tolerance. People overdosing from dxm, that is just dxm and not other chemicals dangerous in and of themselves, is extremely rare. I haven't found any detailed autopsy reports and most of the reports of death "involving" (that is, it doesn't note dxm as the sole cause) dxm are from sketchy little news articles which don't really sound like the author knew what he or she was talking about. I'm still looking though...

[fatal]

it seems like you underestimate dxm users. swim has watched horrified as an acquaintance took 2.4 grams of pure dxm... he said it was fun but maybe a little too long... also another friend of swims has taken a dose of 1.7 grams and was overwhelmed yet undisturbed and was able to go back to sleep after a bit (yes this person dosed that much and then went to sleep a couple minutes later). these are not individuals that i would even consider necessarily hardcore as far as dexers... the standard dose of dxm swim generally encounters seems to be about a gram (roughly 800mg - 1200 mg). no it doesnt seem like it is safe or smart of even probably fun... this is why swim discourages such behavior and does not partake in dxm much anymore (last dose was last year and it was around 200mg combination with dyoxylamine, and 2 mg lorazepam) good fun. not to repeat... just a bad drug for swim... although that time was actually pleasant... no want to have anymore swim thinks... never wass good with swim from the first time at 480 mg when swim was 16.

[bewilderment]

Okay, you're probably right as far as dex users are concerned. I've used dex a lot in the past and found that anytime I went anywhere near a gram that I would have very unpleasant tension and wouldn't remember hardly anything. Maybe weight and gender plays a role...I'm a 120lb female. I wonder what the lethal dose is with the mgs of dxm/kg of body weight ratio. I assume that these people were most likely using the powder form of dxm? I have a hard time imagining being able to stomache that many pills or syrup, but that's just me. I've simply never known anyone personally that has come close to 2 grams at a time. I do agree that anything in that range is rather dangerous.

[nanobrain]

the simple facts, just because you / yours have had a darn tootin' good time combining DXM withour deleterious effects does not make it in any way safe.

it only takes ONE time to seriously fuck up. serotonergic crisis is something very unpleasant to witness in a clinical setting, meltdown is a bitch and there's not much that can be done.

while the debate is still out as to whether DXM causes Olneys, one only has to observe the psychomotor antics of a long term (ab)user to note peripheral effects which certainly have a CNS origin.

please consider alternatives to DXM.

[bewilderment]

^I agree. I've experienced what I believe to be symptoms of serotonin syndrome before while using dxm by itself and it's quite frightening. I knew that both chemicals in the combination affected serotonin/serotonin receptors before my first "experiment" but my sense of danger was lacking. It seems more real now that I'm actually doing more in-depth research at the moment. I wouldn't suggest anyone actually try the combinations I've spoken of. The only thing I find puzzling is that with the combination I felt a lot calmer than I ever did when ingesting either of the chemicals by itself and I never really experienced any of the symptoms of serotonin syndrome. The combination actually felt less toxic (although I suppose it was more toxic...) than when used alone as well which is why I continued with the combinations. But, subjective experience isn't always very reliable.

Perhaps I shouldn't have shared the experience. I'd hate for someone to try it out themselves and have any sort of dire consequences where I've just been lucky.

[napoleon in rags]

Dissacosiatives and Phens/Tryps should never be taken together. It's a recipe for disaster, and the effects cancel eachother out.

Two drugs with such a high bodyload can't be anything but uncomfortable anyways

[treefingers49]

I'm sure MANY would disagree with that statement, as they find ketamine + phen/tryp combinations to be extremely profound with the added benefit of being able to retain more of the ketamine experience.

[bewilderment]

I found the bodyload to be much more comfortable than singularly taking either one. The effects definately don't cancel out.

[bewilderment]

Oh, and I was just now reading over some of the ketamine combos in DM Turner's "The Essential Psychedelic Guide" found here: http://www.lavondyss.com/donut/guide/combinations.html

[napoleon in rags]

Sry bout that, I have heard of great things coming out of K+Tryps, what I meant was PEA's

[treefingers49]

Yeah, I've heard that K+2C-B is one of the best combinations of all. In fact, I've heard positive results from almost every K+phen or tryp combination.

[napoleon in rags]

eh, i just read a few reports and i guess it's supposed to be pretty cool. figure it's probably pretty risky though

[fatal]

just had a relevant thought... PCP is probably what gave rise to much of the negative stigma on psychedelics/hallucinogens in a realistic sense. its mechanism of action is roughly equivalent in terms of neurochemistry to dxm and ketamine etc. thusly... is anyone prepared to defend the position that pcp does not cause damage to the human mind and body?because surely many here could be entertained to hear that. dissociatives are bad on the brain, period. some are worse and not so bad but none are likely to be non damaging. certainly you could find many accounts of pcp induced psychosis and death if one is not prepared to accept dissociative based brain damage from dxm.

[kemistudent]

I hate to be that guy who chimes in at the end, but what is it with all the people out there trying to combine numerous drugs. Can't anyone just enjoy a specific substance for what it is? This almost comes across as a death wish to me. I can't say I didn't go through a stage where I wondered what this would be like with that, but when dealing with RC's which are RESEARCH CHEMICALS (hence, not a lot known) maybe it's best to heed on the side of caution and just chill and enjoy the substance, with a spice of THC, at most, or a benzo to calm you down if you flip out, not 10 of them, just 1 or 2.

[treefingers49]

I said the exact same thing earlier in the post. actually, I don't even get the benzo thing.