the end of cocaine ?

[dcrn]

MOD EDITED : price discussions are against the rules.

----------------

Cocaine was a drug of choice in 60's/70's and 80's where the stuff was pure and uncut when bought. These days people have no other choice but to gamble and spend their hard earned money on a drug so called cocaine that is not even cocaine at all. Street dealers also don't get pure cocaine!! and that is a fact. Even they get a product that has been cut - and many street dealers just buy an ounce at a time or maybe a little bit more. Dealers with kilos don't bother selling a gram or an 8-ball - just simply ounces or bricks. SWIM knows dealers that purchased half a key and then cooked it with other substances re-rocking it and making a full kilo - making them double the profit.

When someone says they are doing cocaine - they are lying to SWIY and to themselves. SWIY is not doing cocaine period. UNLESS you go down Colombia and pick up those coca leafs and make cocaine swiyourself then SWIY'r shit will be PURE, even then not %100 pure. Cocaine prices SHOULD drop down big time because street cocaine is just garbage and people still decide to buy it. Thats why someone who says "I SNIFFED 5 GRAM LINE" and I was fine BULLSHIT - pure cocaine, even a gram if its REALLY pure can instantly kill you - period. SWIM thinks a gram should be at XXXXXprice range because street coke is SHIT!..

please elaborate.

[Cheapstak]

SWIM gets his coke for really cheap and is told how much cut it is and SWIM just purifies it with methods mentioned here. its quite simple.

[dcrn]

the washing and purifying is fine but trust swim - theres more to it.

[Stiney]

lol did someone get ripped off tonight or something?? Whats with all the aggression? Of course cocaine is cut, it always has been, even in the 60s, 70s and 80s, this isn't news to anyone. But like cheapstak says it doesn't take a genius to purify the stuff greatly. I've no doubt some people sell various other things as cocaine but saying " When someone says they are doing cocaine - they are lying to SWIY and to themselves, SWIY is not doing cocaine period" is a bit of an over reaction. Out of curiosity what do you mean when you say "trust swim - theres more to it"?.

[bl0whydr0420]

there is no complete substitute for cocaine, so swim is pretty sure what he's getting is blow

yeah alot of the stuff on the streets swim is sure are cut with numerous things, but those are not hard to rid of (most the time). and even if its not cleaned, the euphoria is still felt...

[kip]

Originally Posted by bl0whydr0420

there is no complete substitute for cocaine, so swim is pretty sure what he's getting is blow

yeah alot of the stuff on the streets swim is sure are cut with numerous things, but those are not hard to rid of (most the time). and even if its not cleaned, the euphoria is still felt...

The thing is the cocaine & and its euphoria is there even if its been heavily cut, but SWIY would have to do alot more to achieve it. Meaning more other garbage is done along with that, which results in more negative effects.

[kaliwraith]

It's rare for honest deals like the kind described above to work out: usually cheap good stuff comes from strange "lifer" type individuals, who usually do not spend enough time with their clients to have a conversation past "It's good man." Otherwise, it's more expensive as small time dealers need to tax it quite a bit to make a decent profit without doing things like cutting. In any case, unless it's been purified, nobody knows or cares to tell about cuts.

[RashleySmashley]

SWIM is not that up on the facts regarding how much different purity was of 60's-80's coke compared to present day coke; however, SWIM is under the impression that the high majority of todays street level coke is, unfortunately, nothin' but chunks of baking soda/amphet./misc.agents/some coke chipped from a [Xnumber of times] re-bricked source retailing at, like, a 700% markup!
Ok perhaps SWIM exaggerates a bit, because SWIM knows of & enjoys only higher purity coke that is elusive- but available. Also, perhaps the region of America SWIM resides in is just especially overrun with imitation-coke.
SWIM def feels SWIY's bitch though! SWIM thinks a big part of the prob is that alot of users are typically un-informed- unkowingly they believe that edgy, jittery, teeth grinding =bomber coke and pay bank for it. SWIM was amazed when she realized that so many occasional & habitual users believe only misconceptions & no nothing about real coke highs, properties, & chemistry. But the cut to hell coke prob is just like everything else today; everything, everywhere- keep paying more to get less, rich get richer, & lets not even start on the price inflations from Govn't. seizures and re-distribution cycles.

[dcrn]

SWIM is sure Le Junk, Epote and otner advanced skiers know what SWIM is talking about. Sure there is euphoria from street coke, but what kind of euphoria. Many other ingredients that are used to cut coke with will give you "euphoria" but SWIM guarantees SWIY the euphoria from pure cocaine is different.

[MrG]

Sheesh, I gotta say that this thread is kinda ambling along the lines of spurious allegation and hearsay.

How about backing up some of these claims with verifiable proof?

As for simply referring to coke dealers as strange "lifer" type individuals, well that's stretching the stereotype somewhat you have to admit.

If SWIY is fucked off with the quality of the coke in his area then he should clean it. If it isn't worth cleaning cos it's too cut then it isn't worth buying in the first place.

[kaliwraith]

Originally Posted by MrG

Sheesh, I gotta say that this thread is kinda ambling along the lines of spurious allegation and hearsay.

How about backing up some of these claims with verifiable proof?

As for simply referring to coke dealers as strange "lifer" type individuals, well that's stretching the stereotype somewhat you have to admit.

If SWIY is fucked off with the quality of the coke in his area then he should clean it. If it isn't worth cleaning cos it's too cut then it isn't worth buying in the first place.

SWIM didn't refer to coke dealers as such but was making a comment about the "lifer" type coke dealers he's met, who are the type that offer consistent flow at low prices. Geez, SWIM could have been called a coke dealer on certain days of the year, but he doesn't think he fits that description..

[epote]

MrG:

as far as SWIE is concerned if one is not willing to delve deep into the obscure (and dangerous) world of dealing cocaine one will not be able to find good quality cocaine.

SWIM is a quality fiend, and has purified several different batches of cocaine, ranging from yellowish to flaked. None of the samples came out more than 60%...besides one that was mighty good cocaine, and was probably like 80%+.

the "type" of dealer that gave that kind of cocaine for sub 50gr quantities was the type that does cocaine because he likes it, not to make money he already had money...

in any case what goes as street cocaine is messed up, not even close to what pure illicit cocaine is and feels like...

[epote]

ok, SWIE had a dream last night, it was quite interesting the dream that is...

the dream SWIE was about cocaine quality and general effects. So it went something like this:

In the dream a dude extracted cocaine from peruvian coca leaves. He had night 1.5kg of leaves and extracted something like 7.9gr of cocaine HCL. But he wanted to experiment so he did.

for those that do not know, the cocaine extraction goes like this

1) dampen the leaves with high pH water solution (that is dissolve in the water a base). This breaks down the cell walls and releases any alkaloids contained in the leaf that are in salt form.
2) add lots and lots of kerosene so that the alkaloids from the leaves get dissolved in it
3) collect the kerosene and extract the alkaloids in it by adding a dilute water/acid solution
4) at this point one should oxidize the alkaloid containing water collected. The oxidization is basically adding a compound that readily gives oxygen atoms away. This helps because the oxidizing agent "attacks" the amine groups in the alkaloids present making them inert without damaging the cocaine alkaloid.
5) the end water is treated with a base (ammonia or smt) and cocaine base precipitates. Because the amine groups in the other alkaloids pressent has reacted with oxygen they do not react with the ammonia and just remain in sollution
6) one dissolves the cocaine base in a non pollar solvent and ads hcl acid to give cocaine hcl

ok, so how did swim experimented in the dream? In the step four (the oxidaziation step) he seperated a few ml's of the water and DID NOT oxidize, went straight to cocaine base.

This actually happens allot in cocaine producing countries because the US heavily controls large quantities of potassium permangate which is the oxidizing agent used.

The result was cocaine base with a yellowish color and a smell of decomposing leaves mixed with dirt and water.

When that was dissolved in ether alot of stuff was insoluble, and in any case the whole thing was crystalized giving a kind of offwhite cocaine.

Ether kind of cleaned up all those other alkaloids but not sufficiently enough.

the end cocaine is what one would describe as "edgy" etc. Not street quality crap but definately inferior in terms of high than oxidized cocaine.

BTW those ether insoluble impurities where mostly soluble in acetone which is what people in SA use to dissolve cocaine base because ether is controled as well. Which would give an even worce result.

So the point of the dream is this:

SWIM was right, cocaine high quality is dependant not only on active cuts but also on alkaloid content due to manufacturing procedures.

And the only way to "save" that thing (Besides oxidizing) is doing an acid base extraction WITH an ether wash of the base. The result will still be not as good but acceptable.

ALSO the dream had another revelation. Swim had dreamed of performing an acid base extraction an a street bought cocaine sample. The end result was FUCKED UP, among the worst highs ever. SWIM yesterday smelled some modafinil base, it had the excact same smell as that fucked up cocaine...Also it has prety much the same properties and similar pharmacological properties as well. Its VERY likely that modafinil is used to cut cocaine its dirt cheap and looks ALOT like cocaine.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Fascinating dreams there 'pote.

[MrG]

Excellent dreaming there and a fine example of exactly what was needed in this thread!

[Benga]

great post Epote, very interesting info in those dreams. differences in effect due to alkaloid makeup can also be felt in coca leaf directly, different strains have quite psychophysiological effects, and this is not due to cocaine concentration only, but to alkaloid interaction. all this makes swim wonder if detailed documentation exists on "pure" cocaine samples produced in different locations and using different methods.
Possible, as analysis of seized product and of the specific manufacturing related impurities found is used to locate likely production zones in "the war on drugs".

b

[RashleySmashley]

SWIM finds Epote's dreams very informative, and wishes she could have such info filled, fascinating dreams! SWIM wonders though: are any highs/effects felt by just chewing on a coca leaf, or is the chemical process described needed to produce ANY high, or does it intensify/ alter the high?

[Benga]

Originally Posted by RashleySmashley

SWIM wonders though: are any highs/effects felt by just chewing on a coca leaf, or is the chemical process described needed to produce ANY high, or does it intensify/ alter the high?

coca leaves produce a coca "high", which is quite different from cocaine HCl.
this is due to gradual absorption and the technique used, as well as to coca leaf's complex alkaloid makeup. Coca ("chewed", or rather buccal absorption of...) is a light stimulant, which increases stamina and motivation, lightens the mood. It also has a form of sedative effect.
Coca is "chewed" with a basifying agent ( sodium bicarbonate, limestone paste, vegatal ashes...) to help the buccal extration of the leaf's alkaloids.
But if the leaves are fresh, they can sometimes be chewed without base and produce effects, though this is rather rare as a practice.
there is a coca section in the forum that swiyou might want to look into.
but again, it's important to stress that coca and extracted cocaine HCl are very different.

b

[epote]

well SWIE in a previous dream tried some coca tea, that is, he boiled water, used two coca tea bags and some lime juice. Didnt really notice anything, one could argue that he felt more energetic, more like a calmed hyperactivity but the feeling was masked due to the expectation of something about to happen...

Perhaps SWIE is not experience enough, SWIbenga is much more so.

the chemical process which is fairly simple in theoretical terms is needed to isolate the cocaine alkaloids which is the most active, but then again no real studies have been made on the other erythroxylum coca alkaloids, and more specifically the psychoactive interactions they can have.

At least for SWIE the unoxidized cocaine hcl high is different than the oxidized one...very different, the oxidized high is much more lucid and clear and far less paranoid (well it ISNT paranoid at all).

but it is speedy and "rushy" that is, hand tremors etc are there...

the procedure is simple enough though it has some tricks, SWIE has already drawn some very lifelike pictures from the dream and will post them when he can

[Benga]

Originally Posted by epote

well SWIE in a previous dream tried some coca tea, that is, he boiled water, used two coca tea bags and some lime juice. Didnt really notice anything, one could argue that he felt more energetic, more like a calmed hyperactivity but the feeling was masked due to the expectation of something about to happen...

coca tea in itself is really more of a calming, sedative drink to swim. swim gets stronger energetic effects from green tea, coca seems to only effect stamina. Coca tea is good for stomach aches and unrest, and altitude sickness if this is revelant, which it rarely is. fresh coca tea brewed in tea is stronger, maybe more of an eyeopening effect than green tea but even then effects are very mild. Brewing a large quantity does change this slightly, but it's still a weak way of using coca ( adding lime juice isn't really a good idea, acidity always counteracts the extraction process in swim's experience with citric acid, lemon juice etc)...

the best way to judge the effects of coca, with teabags, is as follows :
take two to three teabags. Rip them open. add a pinch ( 1/4 of a teaspoonful) of food grade sodium BIcarbonate ( baking soda), either from the local supermarket or the pharmacy.
close the teabag by rolling them and lick as one would for a rolled cigarette, using one's saliva.
place the teabags between gums and cheek, or under the tongue.

from there on, KEEP ONE'S SALIVA IN THE MOUTH. ie don't swallow it.
effects will be felt from 5 minutes into the process, once the teabags get soaked with saliva and the mouth's mucous lining starts absorbing what's in the saliva. first sign will be a numbing next to the teabag, then an increase in salivation.
next comes the stimulation, fatigue dissipates, bloodflow is stimulated, mood uplifted etc...
keep the bags in the mouth without swallowing the saliva unless this becomes absolutely necessary. yes, it's not great for talking. make sure you don't drool, green saliva is yucky and stains.
two to three teabags can be kept in the mouth for 45 minutes, spit them out when no more numbness is felt. Press the bags between gums and cheek to get the "juice" out. The bags will probably rip open during the process, this is good, it actually makes for a better buccal extraction. If you swallow the saliva for a reason, it is better to add one or two fresh bags to the mouth.

it is a waste if the teabags are not kept for at least 15 to 20 minutes, the process takes a few minutes to start.
full stimulation lasts for as long as teabags are active, and then slowly decreases over the following 45 minutes to an hour.

best time to try is with a task at hand which doesn't involve talking : typing out a paper, cleaning one's house, painting the ceiling, walk in nature, playing an instrument...

don't forget to brush teeth afterwards.

the effects of coca chewing and drinking coca infusions are uncomparable.

b