SWIM Cannot quit amphetamines...what to do?

[robaroot]

SWIM is completely addicted to Adderall (ADHD) and Klonopin. No matter how hard SWIM tries swim can't get off those drugs. Logically, swim knows the wisdom is to go slow when withdrawing off of any meds, but swim cannot keep the hand out of the cookie jar. As swim tapers down and it gets more difficult, of course swim takes more...and abuses them a bit too. round and around, for two years. So, swim has Medicare, and they will give maybe 7 days in the psych hospital (the most awful place in the world) and pulls the rug out from under you and you come out completely unable to function, just dizzy. Swim has gone off the meds before and experiences complete paralysis when they are out of swim's body..emotional, physical, mental pain that is unbearable is how it feels. It's absolutely crazy. OR swim can pay 10K or something and go to Betty Ford and get 30 days and 12 steps, which are completely worthless in this situation. Alot of money, but 3 weeks more in the hospital. Any ideas? Desperate to get off these things. Thanks

[~lostgurl~]

Usually a taper is necessary with benzos like clonazepam as the physical withdrawal can be life threatening, but in the experience of most people I know, quitting amphetamines is best done cold turkey, tapering is just far too difficult for most people. Check out this thread: Tools for recovering from (meth)amphetamine addiction for help quitting the amphetamines, don't go into it blindly but set yourself up with tools that will aid your recovery - supplements, hobbies etc. You probably want to quit these drugs one at a time, and as the clonazepam should help ease any withdrawal you get from the adderall, I'd reccommend quitting the addreall first. Best of luck to ya.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	very good advice about using the clonazapam whilst kicking the adderall
	I aprove of your post because, one you offered a good thread , you told him to go cold turkey instead of taper, and mo...

[infekt]

hey man, maybe swiy should look into a salvation army rehab. They don't cost much (maybe nothing at all, but I don't know exactly) and I'm sure swiy will be able to have a safer detox there. Just something to keep in my mind, I'm not sure if there is a salvation army rehab around where swiy lives, but swiy should look into if he is serious about trying to get off the drugs. Benzo withdrawals can be VERY serious. Swim also knows from experience, since he had a few seizures whilst withdrawing from benzos. Be very careful.

As for the amphetamine addiction, Lostgurl has some good advice about using the clonazepam during the withdrawal period from the adderall. As far as I know, withdrawals from amphetamine are all psychological; obviously it will not be walk in a park, but it won't be very physically painful at least (correct me if I am wrong, please).


My best wishes go to swiy and his recovery.

[humdroid]

swim was like this.
swim got so pissed off with amphetamines though, that he couldnt be arsed with them even, at his most depressed.
swim is a spoilt brat, and wants to be high with out drugs.
he dosent want to feel suicidal as he wants to be happy alive.

[humdroid]

See Doc about the klonopin, as its benzo so may need supervision, as in regular appointments. It has it sepearate withdrawal to amphetamines.
Have you checked out a site called benzo org online, they have good info on all aspects of coming off benzos.
Y thinks everyone's guilty of nicking too many cookies, when it comes to things like benzo.
Y gets them prescribed, but only 150mg every month or more like 2mths. Y only likes to take them after a 2 days gap, or a three days one. Sometimes he leaves more days in the gap, and the benzo does feel stronger. Y hopes eventually he wont need the benzos, but is working closely with the Doc while on them.
Your Doc will help you too, Y knows its different, but his doc also knows of Y's history of substance abuse.
The psych hospital mightnt be that bad when you get there.
Y had a spell in there last year, and he tells me that he was happy to stay there and chill a couple of weeks, and got paranoid they would make him leave early. A nurse also told Y, many patients dont want to go home, when the time comes. This was a surprise, given how scared Y was when he first went in.
I know its not a miracle answer, but I would start off with a doctors consultation, and go from there.
It can happen, this overcoming of drugs.

Y is succeeding staying off speed, a drug he felt chained to.
He had loads of willpowered go's at giving up, all failed, but this time, he is focusing on being high without speed.
The falls back to using happened when Y associated stopping speed with being low.
Itearly days, but Y is amidst another gap of non usage right now.

[nefarious145]

First of all, when it comes to the adderall, SWIY needs to stop playing the victim... Adderall is a piece of CAKE to get off of, if you really *wanted* to quit you would. No sympathy there. The clonazepam on the other hand is a bit more complicated. SWIM has personally never dealt with a daily benzo habit, but all swiy needs to do is come up with a taper plan, like suggested above... Other than that I would get into exercising regularly if you don't already.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Please dont assume that getting off any drug is a "peice of cake"..for everyone is different.
	Totally unhelpful, and simply wrong. Amphetamines are not easy to quit for many.

[~lostgurl~]

Originally Posted by nefarious145

First of all, when it comes to the adderall, SWIY needs to stop playing the victim... Adderall is a piece of CAKE to get off of, if you really *wanted* to quit you would. No sympathy there.

No addiction is a piece of cake to get off. The physical addiction to adderall may not be huge, but most people find the psychological addiction the hard part anyway.

[nefarious145]

There is no physical addiction to amphetamines whatsoever. It is 100% mental. Sure there are some chemical changes in the brain, but that is not physical withdrawal

[~lostgurl~]

You are missing the point entirely!

[Dickon]

lostgurl has hit the proverbial nail on the head. I personally think the whole physical/psychological withdrawal dichotomy is simplistic guff. Every drug has a different withdrawal profile, and one could possibly argue that the "physically" addictive drugs, such as opiates and benzodiazepines disturb brain chemistry, and so really as once the brain chemistry returns to normal there are no physical symptoms. That is to say, they are only psychological addictive! I really don't understand why goodsebumps and a runny tummy are so different from the depression, somnolence, increased appetite (surely a physical sign of w.d.?!), cravings, etc. of stimulant use. My cat has stopped using amphetamines, crack, opiates, benzodiazepines and alcohol (and nicotine and caffeine, although today he enjoys the odd cup of tea!) and found the cravings and depression from stopping amphetamines and crack made it very hard to stop. There is a despreation to stimulant use that is not present with opiate or benzo or alcohol use.

robaroot,

I do not know if lostgurl would agree with me, but amphetamines and stimulants are, for my cat at least, best quit "cold turkey". I think stimulant cravings are very intense and any use of any ammount will set the whole craving-cylce in motion. My cat says that for him at least there are two phases to quitting stimulants. There is the initial short term crash, where cravings are intense almost to the point of breaking all resolve and ones mind is not really ones own. Being away from a source of supply was the only way my cat got through this. After that there is a longer period of generalised dysphoria, feeling like life is shit, tiredness, boredom, etc., in which stimulant use seem the only way out. As my cat was somewhat of a polydrug user, he never ever succeeded in going through this phase without the use of other drugs, specifically opiates. It is probably best to do some research on how to get brain chemistry back to normal as quickly as possible. I'm sure there's info on that on here. Bear in mind that it is a long process, and may take months or even a year or more to regain normal brain function.

Finally, and this is just a suggestion, I'd quit the adderall first. A benzo withdrawal may or may not be easier, depending on your disposition and length/amount of use. Although potentially a very difficult withdrawal, it is a much easier thing to withdraw from in a controlled way. If you've been using the benzos for a while it is essential to taper them. There is a lot of info on here about this, but some of the extremely long tapers are too long in my view, suitable more for people who have been using them for decades. Do not go cold turkey. My cat has had a fit from doing this, and people have, rarely, been known to die from such fits.

Best of luck

Dickon

[DecoyPencil]

SWIM that SWIrobaroot is correct that a certain post was very ignorant and mean-spirited. It looks like that user has since been banned, and for good reason .

I know how easy it can be to get sidetracked when someone comes in with an unhelpful, rude and ignorant post, but SWIM would like to try to get back on topic.

robaroot,

Has SWIY had any improvements since the original post? Any updates on SWIY's condition?

DecoyPencil

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good work pointing this thread back in the right direction.

[robaroot]

Yes....SWIM is down from 110 mg dexiderine to 35 mg. and holding steady. This has been for almost 2 weeks. Now is where things get difficult. SWIM is (of course) beginning to wonder whether SWIM really does have ADHD and really needs medication. It's all so confusing. SWIM spends day in and day out researching these issues...diagnosis, medication; instead of living life. SWIM's pharmacist paid a compliment: that of all the people that comes into the pharmacy, SWIM was the highest functioning person he knew. The pharmacist said: "get over it! Just take the meds and go on with your life...you have so much to offer...." SWIM doesn't know why he has so much fear....fear of being on medication, being off medication. SWIM can't trust any doctors at all! SWIM knows that it's been 4 years since he ended an 8 year crystal meth addiction, but has been on stimulants the whole time. SWIM would like to try life w/o speed, but SWIM doesn't want to go back.

[DecoyPencil]

Congrats on achieving such a reduction, from 110mg to 35mg is quite an achievement. SWIM recognizes SWIY's current mentality towards the whole situation. SWIM found that it helps to try to find out what makes SWIY afraid to be on the medication (fear of relapsing into addiction?), and what makes SWIY afraid to be off of the medication (fear of not being able to function properly without it?).

For example, when my hamster was originally diagnosed with ADHD, he was CERTAIN that it explained what was wrong with him. After forming an addiction that lasted for years and finally breaking it, he was SO scared to live without amphetamine because he thought be would never be able to function in the real world without it. Eventually, my hamster decided to take the plunge and force himself to go without amphetamine and see how he felt. He discovered that his original ADHD symptoms had almost entirely changed over the years and were no longer the main problem. In fact, he found that he no longer had much of a problem concentrating, but that he had developed severe anxiety that he never had before.

It sounds like SWIY's situation is similar to my hamster's years ago in that he is both afraid to stop the medication, and afraid to be on it, as both can have consequences. So to compare to SWIY's situation; it sounds like finding out how SWIY would feel off of amphetamine for a few days would work. SWIY has already done a great job tapering down to a very reasonable daily dose and maintaining it. So maybe SWIY could pick a few days (preferably with minimal responsibilities and stress) and see how things go without any Dexedrine? I think that would help put things into perspective by helping to determine whether or not SWIY really feels he NEEDS the medication still. If it turns out that things don't go so well without it, then SWIY can reexamine the options. Does that sound feasible to SWIY?

DecoyPencil