Can 2 addicts in a relationship ever get clean together?

[DeeZee]

Originally Posted by piggyinthemiddle

There was always a relapse, and the problem is, if one relapses, the other has a free excuse to follow suit. In fact when they discussed it, they admitted , they were both hoping the other one would lose resolve, so they would have that excuse!!

Yep, that's preciselly what i meant.

SWIM and his GF were doing the exact same thing - using each other as an excuse, hoping the other would fail and ask for more, so they could go buy more without feeling guilty, by pretending it was the other one's fault..

And when the other one didn't want to fail, they would try to manipulate each other to fail, or at least accuse each other of wanting more, so they would start talking about it. Once they started talking about it, it was pretty much decided they would buy more.


And as i mentioned, while doing so, both were very much aware of what they were doing, and that they are just making up an exscuse for themselves.

Had they not been aware of what they were doing, it might have been even easier for them to relapse, but understanding it all and knowing this didn't really help much either....


Addiction to opiates is pretty much impossible to explain to someone, who didn't experience it.

And while there may not be a general answer to the OP's question, i believe, that if both in the couple are really addicted, it becomes at least twice as hard for BOTH of them....


Only if one was not yet physically addicted, could they force the other to try to quit. But once the addiction is physical, i am sure it is harder to quit for a couple, than for each of them individually.



I recall that in the beginning of SWIM's addiction, when he would use in secret, hiding it from his GF, when she would find out, she would start a big fight with SWIM, resulting in her getting some as well. She was not aware of it at that time, but it was simply her way of finding an excuse...


Opiate addiction is a serious mind-f***, especially when trying to quit, and when two are addicted together, each of them has to deal with their own as well as the other's mind-f***. It's not pleasant. It's definitelly more than twice as hard to quit.. Dealing with your own addiction is extremelly hard, dealing with someone else's on top of that makes it pretty much impossible. All it does is give way to more numerous and easier excuses.


SWIM and his GF did "succesfully" (at least for a while) quit together a couple of times, sometimes it took for them to go to the country for a week or two, before that, when the addiction was not so bad yet, they managed to do it in their normal surroundings, but the relapses were again made easier by the fact, that both of them were addicted.. Only one has to fail, even just temporarily, for both to relapse for good...


The ugliest part of it all is, that when one relapses, while the other is trying to stay clean, the clean one becomes "jealous" of the other being high and feeling good. And this "jealousy" is then used as yet another excuse, for the clean one to relapse..



Opiate addiction can be a very ugly thing. If SWIM could do it all over again, he would never have introduced his GF to opiates. Had he kept it a secret, if would be harder for him to become addicted, or at the very least, he would have more motivation to get clean. But they pretty much started together, before the addiction ever showed it's ugly face.

If SWIM's GF's first experience with opiates would be seeing SWIM addicted and suffering, she would most likelly not have tried opiates herself, but would try very hard to help SWIM quit.




I can not however understand people, who are already addicted, who then offer opiates to their partner. If someone is already addicted, they know how bad it is. Why would they want this on their loved one?!? I think that is very selfish. But then again, that's one of the things opiates do - make you selfish. But still. I guess they must love the drug more than their partner.

If SWIM was addicted and met a new GF, he would probably keep it a secret, and if it ever came out, he would tell his GF how horrible addiction is, and wouldn't allow her to try, even if she asked. He would ask for help with quitting instead....

DeeZee added 8 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...

I mean, SWIM had this friend, the very person, who introduced SWIM to opiates..

This friend one day got a new GF, and later SWIM found out, that his friend was giving his GF H to smoke!

SWIM and another friend got very angry at this friend of theirs, and made an "intervention" of sorts, telling their friend what he is doing is very selfish and irresponsible to his GF. That if he cared about her, he should never offer her H again.


But this friend said, that his GF was forcing him to give her H, possibly as a way to force him to quit.


Can't say if that was an excuse or not, but i can say, that in the same situation, SWIM would never give heroin to a person he loved, but who wasn't yet addicted, no matter what they said or did. Not after knowing what addiction really looks like and what it does to you...

Reputation Comments on this post:

	A well thought out and excellen post. Completely relevant information for the op and experience of said situaion is what...
	shares own experience in detail and supports OP.well done

[Dr. Amapola]

SWIM has personally have never been able to be in a relationship with a girl who is addicted to drugs (heroin & opiates) or is in recovery. In swim's own opinion, even if both of you want to get clean, usually one person will end up having a weak moment and thus bring down the other person with them. When two heroin/opiate addicts fall in love, they not only share love for eachother but they share their love for drugs. Often times couples will enable eachother to use and feel more comfortable using around eachother because you feel like he/she understands it, so you don't feel so bad using around them.

In conclusion, if you're debating about it then the two of you are almost definitely doomed, sadly to say. It's very sad when this happens, and I know it happens all the time which is just so sad.

If you are an addict in recovery it's best to find a lover who understands your addiction well and will treat you with respect, but who DOES NOT USE DRUGS, with the exception of maybe an occasional drink or pot, but that is totally dependent on the individuals. Some people can handle smoking and drinking a little here and there in their recovery, but others can't.

Best of Luck!

[Laudaphun]

SWIM thinks one other factor that may play an important role in answering this question. Basically, what each individual wants out of life, their age (which isn't quite as relevant, as the maturity... someone that gets pregnant in high school and raises the child is forced to grow up a lot faster than some like SWIM who didn't really start acting much like an adult until early-mid 20's). Anyways, the point is that you people that have addiction issues, and haven't really established much of a career (if that is what they want) are probably more prone to be at high risk as 2 addicts, trying to stay clean, just starting out in the world would really have to work at it.

On the other hand, 2 addicts who have gotten to the point in the life where they have a career/job they are happy with, children (if they want them), and a house, car, dog, and the works would likely have a better chance IMHO, as at least in the case of SWIM, the more she has to lose, the less likely she is to allow anything into her life that would destroy the things she cares about. SWIM doesn't have all that, in fact she has very little in terms of possesions, other than books, a couple computers, and an old car. More importantly, she has the ability and is making progress towards her dream which is something more important to her than reverting to old habits.

Basically, the more a person has to lose, the more (at least in SWIM's case) strength they have to fight old habits. With that said, SWIM would be extremely cautious about allowing someone in her life that did not really want to change. People can be deceitful, especially when love and drugs are mixxed. People have told SWIM they were clean but really that was only because SWIM didn't condone the use of illegal drugs, and unwanted romantic feelings for SWIM developed and only after SWIM made it a point that she had no interest, did that person admit to still using heroin.

Suppose SWIM had been interested, that deception could have created a problem had SWIM developed any of her own romantic feelings. Love (or lust), can be quite powerful forces. SWIM has intentionally tried to avoid any kind of romantic relationship until nearly finished with the degrees she wishes to attain, because she knows that when she falls for someone, she falls hard... SWIM has no problem avoiding drugs that disrupt academics, however she knows that allowing herself to develop romantic feelings would be very dangerous as that is what began her opiate addiction (rather the emotional pain caused by this).

Sometimes romantic feelings are unavoidable, no matter how hard you fight (again, talking from personal experience). So, this is just a little bit about how SWIM feels in regards to her own life. This is all just my opinion, nothing more.

One thing SWIM wants to add is that one additional risk, perhaps already mentioned by another poster, is that not only is it taking a very high risk, and the chances of both managing to stay clean, but the fact that the chances are very low that 2 addicts can stay clean together, but what happens to the majority that do manage to stay clean together but things don't work out? SWIM would guess that would put both at risk for relapse even if they had stayed clean together the whole time, as emotional pain can be hard to deal with and an addict knows there is a simple way to kill emotional pain... SWIM's advice is that if you are very young then it's probably best to avoid and addict-addict relationship, but probably the older each partner is and the more time spent clean the better the chance... Something one really needs to think about VERY carefully.

[just some chick]

Swim had that same issue with her bf, with whom she started using initially. Swim would get clean but her bf would continue using, doing it in front of swim until she'd finally cave. There were several concurrent trips to rehab between them but he would cave, swim was never far behind.

When swim finally had enough she had no choice but to walk away from her bf. She stayed on the meth program and he continued to use while swim raised their child on her own. It was four years before swims bf frinally got clean (via a year in jail) and by then they had nothing in common but the time they had spent using, plus it was too hard not to reminsce and romanticize all the time they had spent using.

He's not using now and swim is still on methadone but swim has to agree that in most cases, it's not possible.

[DAZED&C0NFUSED]

It all depends did SWIY and the partner meet each other before or after they started this habit. The reason I think this is important b/ in the beging of the relationship if one got the other to use, the first person is probably more influential on the other person, so it might be like a game of follow the leader. It can go both way, do both sides want to stop as much as the other? What's going to happen if one slips up and uses? SWIY and partner have a lot of things to talk about before they think it's as easy as one two three. Is there going to be any consequences if one or the other messed up? Since partner goes away a lot, how will SWIY know he's not using? I'm sure there's trust in this relationship, but as we all know drugs make people into someone thier not.

[Politicalchalk]

Swim and his special lady cleaned up together, and found that we actually encouraged eachother and helped eachother in this manner. However, I hear this is not the normal...

[Sparrowbeans]

My friend's first relationship with an addict was a massive disaster. She was young and stupid and took it very personally that this individual could not quit 'for her', that he could be so self destructive instead of think of the fact that she loved him, all that stuff....very stupid. She let it absolutely break her apart, destroy her and haunt her.

Her current relationship is with an ex junky. He went to rehab while they were long distance. She had dealt with his major breakdowns and shit hitting the fan and everything else so many times before, but understood full well that all of this was him, and absolutely none of it could be allowed to drive her down into depression and feelings of rejection. During the long distance spell she was very relieved not to be around him, feeling responsible to do something, to save him somehow, or get caught up in the negative events; when he wanted he contacted her.
It was good, it worked out...it was better that way, better apart, and telling eachother a few things about themselves but only taking care of themselves, and just...giving up...on the other, in some way...

Avoid any kind of emotional manipulation. Keep life simple, don't expect to lean on the other too much when their capacities are down. Its important to develop a strong friendship type relationship more than anything. If you didn't have that to start out your relationship, then you haven't got it to fall back on when capacity for the more romantic or emotionally involved things is cut short or nullified entirely by the substances and the addiction.

For many, relationships began because of drugs; people meeting in certain scenes or situations where they shared drug use, and everything else seemed to be common after that, everything real about the nature of their relationship buffered and sugar coated if not completely glamourized by the drug use.
When there is an attempt to strip that away, you see things for what they are in a painful way....at least this is most common, though some perhaps have lucked out and are both very resilient people as well as a natural match in so many ways.
But we all would like to believe that, and yet I'd wager it is quite rare....

However, if at all possible, I believe, from what I've seen with my friend, that if both agree to work on developing a respectful, careful, non-codependent friendship and nothing more, and have the ability to step back and do that, that getting clean together can in fact be one of the things that improve the relationship for the future to a level they never had even before

Reputation Comments on this post:

great advice about not leaning on the OP, and maintaining friendship first of all.thanks for sharing swiy's experience

[vita-disgrazia]

Just a thought, a lot of addiction involves habit and ritual. Your friend Has set up the habit and ritual of use together everytime time her bf returns they use together. One the other hand your friends bf also has habit of not using while away on work. Maybe your friend to go with her bf on job and see if that habit and ritual the bf set up of not using helps the friend to not use?

This is not a long term solution but may help your friend to clearly see the effect she has on bf and vice cersa?

Reputation Comments on this post:

succinct post, but gives great insight into the habits of addiction and makes a v.clever suggestion. well done for spott...

[sbt8080]

SWIM has never been in a relationship with a user, but he is currently in a relationship with a non-user - a girl who has in fact never used a drug recreationally in her life.

On one hand, she really does help to keep him grounded, and she has been extremely supportive in helping SWIM to quit when he wants to. She is not all judgmental and does not make SWIM feel like shit; rather, she is encouraging, and knows that this is a problem that SWIM has and tries to help him struggle with it.

On the other hand, she really has no idea what it is like. As supportive as she may be, she does not understand the details, the intricacies of an addiction and the addict's behavior. She doesn't understand cravings... she doesn't understand the benefits of tapering a drug rather than going cold-turkey... she doesn't understand that sometimes SWIM just doesn't want to be coddled or supported, that sometimes he just wants to be left alone... she doesn't understand where all of his sources are, so she can't help control relapses... she doesn't understand all of the signs of relapse, to see it coming before it comes... she doesn't always understand what SWIM needs sometimes to help take his mind off the cravings...

SWIM loves her, and he is 100% grateful for having her in his life... but in short, she does not understand the part of SWIM's personality that is the addict. And she can never totally understand this part of SWIM's personality without being an addict herself.

So, what I am trying to say is that anyone who is in a mutually addicted relationship should count it as a blessing, and concentrate on the positive things that having a partner with such knowledge/experience can bring.

Your partner can have a better understanding of what it's like to crave, and can thus help you get through your cravings better... your partner can see the warning signs of relapse much more quickly, and can help stop them more efficiently... your partner can better recognize what your sources are, and help prevent you from seeking them out... etc.

Of course, both you and your partner have to vow to stay clean. But if you work together, and help each other, you can potentially do a much better job of it than anyone else!

My only advice is to keep that in mind as you try to work these things out. don't just think "we're doomed". That won't get you anywhere. Instead, count your strengths, and use them to the advantage of yourself and your loved one!

Reputation Comments on this post:

excellent view from another perspective, well thought out, and gives insight into swim's situation.well done.

[EyesOfTheWorld]

SWIM and his ex have decided to give it another go, now that SWIM has been through detox and is on methadone. Seems ovious now but the big stumbling block in their staying together is that each time, one of them was an addict. A heroin or cocaine addict cannot successfully have a relationship with someone who isn't, IMO. However, SWIM and his girl are not anti-drug, and still use soft drugs together up to and including alcohol, pills and even cocaine. 99% of the time they spend together is spent sober or high on marijunana, alcohol or MDMA. Unless his methadone use counts as nonsobriety. He knows that if he picks up dope again that she's done with him. Likewise, she knows if she does it again, he's done with her. Of course circumstances will be considered and all but either of the two going back to heroin probably means the end of the relationship. He loves her enough to give up H forever for her as long as she feels the same about him and it looks like she does. All goes well they will be marrying and doing the family thing (he will be legally adopting her sons so he's not just "Step-Dad", but "Dad", and they will be trying like hell to have one more kid, preferably a daughter but either is just fine (and the fun is is in the "trying", anyway)
Holy shit, someone that SWIM considers to be worth giving up heroin for! And she was right there the whole time just waiting for him to smarten up. Stupid, stupid SWIM. She's perfect in evey way, but he thought sticking himself with a rig was more important. She has accepted the fact that he will likely be on methadone for the rest of his life, and they are both fine with each other's medical benzo use.

[beena]

Hi Msmogadon, good to see you about the place again - it's been a while ...
SWIM would also very much like to meet or hear from someone who is one of a couple who have successfully managed to get clean. She really hopes it is possible but all the advice from professionals in the world of drug treatment points to the opposite: no rehab that SWIM knows of will take a couple into treatment together and when SWIM's partner was last in rehab (about 2 years ago), the treatment centre he was in kept trying to split him and SWIM up (group sessions were used as a platform for attacking his relationship with her - trying to get him to see that it wasn't a relationship, rather a co-dependency and that there was no real love there). Unfortunately this is where their argument fell apart and why it had no effect on him - say what you want about SWIM and her fella but there is no doubt in either's mind that they do, really, really love eachother. They might not be the best influence on the other where drugs are concerned but within the bubble of addiction they look after and care for each other completely and have a really good, loving relationship. It's taken a lot of work to get them to where they are now, but they've arrived at a place where they both feel secure in each-other's love, both trust the other implicitly, and neither can stomach the thought of not being together for the rest of their lives. Now, hopefully this will be drug-free, but you know if that's never gonna be then SWIM would choose being with her partner on drugs than being clean but apart. She might get a lot of criticism for that viewpoint but it's how she generally feels.
It's a shame that there are no treatment centres that will take a couple together and deal with their problems jointly. SWIM understands the reasons why they won't and that it's always gonna be easier for one person to stop on their own, but if a rehab is presented with a couple who both really, really want to stop and want to do it together, then SWIM feels there is an argument for this too. Why does it always have to be detrimental to have two addicts together? Why is it always assumed that one will drag the other one down? Why can't it be that two people might support each-other and urge each-other to stick too it and stay strong? Then, surely it might be possible for two people to actually help each-other rather than be a hinderance.
Well, SWIM is gonna stick with her man and keep trying to make their lives a better one. If SWIY decides to do the same then SWIM wishes you the best of luck - it is never gonna be easy (SWIY knows that), but it can be really rewarding and actually something really quite special can come out of it.

Reputation Comments on this post:

excellent alternative viewpoint/ideas for couple support & shares own experience.

[jeepack]

Originally Posted by beena

It's a shame that there are no treatment centres that will take a couple together and deal with their problems jointly. SWIM understands the reasons why they won't and that it's always gonna be easier for one person to stop on their own, but if a rehab is presented with a couple who both really, really want to stop and want to do it together, then SWIM feels there is an argument for this too. Why does it always have to be detrimental to have two addicts together? Why is it always assumed that one will drag the other one down? Why can't it be that two people might support each-other and urge each-other to stick too it and stay strong? Then, surely it might be possible for two people to actually help each-other rather than be a hinderance.
Well, SWIM is gonna stick with her man and keep trying to make their lives a better one. If SWIY decides to do the same then SWIM wishes you the best of luck - it is never gonna be easy (SWIY knows that), but it can be really rewarding and actually something really quite special can come out of it.

It is true that I could say thanks for a different perspective. But I'd rather be criticized and say it's another perspective, a womens, and one that can be dangerous for many other women out there, and some man if they are in a relationship that makes them forget that they are man. I think it is important to point out that if you go and see a center for women that are beat up every day, they mostly reason like you. Meaning they'd rather stay with their man and get beat up than not ge beat up but not be with the man. That's the kind of reasoning that will keep a lot of women in these toxic relationships. I don't think the reason they keep couples seperate is that one would drag the other down, I think they keep them seperate because of how you feel:

Originally Posted by beena

It's taken a lot of work to get them to where they are now, but they've arrived at a place where they both feel secure in each-other's love, both trust the other implicitly, and neither can stomach the thought of not being together for the rest of their lives. Now, hopefully this will be drug-free, but you know if that's never gonna be then SWIM would choose being with her partner on drugs than being clean but apart. She might get a lot of criticism for that viewpoint but it's how she generally feels.

It sounds like you are making your boyfriend feel like how you feel. First, you might be completly right. But then again, I'm not sure any of you knows what love is because if you love someone, you can let them go, you don't hold a grip on them and say you would not be able to stomach being appart. That is co-dependency. SWIM has been through all that you talk about, I'm not saying this for no reason. I think the reason they split couples up because they know that a full recovery together would hurt too much as it would question their own relationship. If you feel like people attack the relationship, you can own that feeling no problem. But I would dissagree. No one can harm you unless you give them permission. And if a couple gets "attacked" during rehab, I beleive it mostly gets attacked from within as it is normal for anyone who wants to do well to question the false associations they have made in their head.

They tell you in rehab, don't make any big decisions when you get out, wait a bit. Today, I still don't know if swim should have ended the relationship right after rehab or 2 years after, when the reasons became more apparent. It's a good question. In fact, swim doesn't consider that rehab a successful one as he thinks it was mostly brainwashing for AAs and swim is not an alcoholic, but anyway. I can assure you. There are other reasons why couples are being split in rehab. And I think you know those reasons!! I think you know them very well. I think you know that rehab can break a couple. But if you cling to someone and can't even picture you not being together, this could be signs of co-dependency.

Now people try to get clean because... well we only live one life, unless you're a buddhist and you want to live that life to the fullest? Right? My point is that if you are in that attitude, you should bring that attitude to all your life. That means, fuck your BF! Breakup, take a break and TRUST that if you are meant to be together, you WILL BE!!!!! But people in co-dependencies don't see that. Looking at the hole picture brings up the fear of being alone. And unless that fear is gone, you can't even live your present relationship to the fullest!

Live life to the fullest people! If you love someone, let them go. True love is not finding the perfect person, it is approaching a mutual relationship with a truthful attitude. Also, your relationship to your partner will most likely represent your relationship to life. If you are clinging to your partner, you are not free in life. Lets say you are a crack-head, stoping crack does not make your life full! It is changin your attitude about life that makes it full!

Couples can be super toxic when not approached with the correct attitude. PLEASE PEOPLE, if you read this. Don't be afraid of rehab if you are in a couple. The couple won't die if it is meant to be. But if you fear it dies, I think it is time for both of you to face that fear and bring your lifes to a new level.

remember the movie forest gump for a picture of true love, forest's love for his "jenny" was true love as he was able to let her go and still care about her even when she wasn't there, as if she was always with him. But never did he impose his life on her, and they ended up together in the end. Jenny was the caracter that represented our inability (or how tough it can be) to love correctly when we have not been loved ourselves by our parents as children. She kept saying "you are too good to me" and "I am not a good girl for you". And she was addicted to drugs in the movie. And it wasn't before she cleaned her act that she could actually hold a healthy relationship with gump. Before that, she knew there was no point to being with him as the love between them would have been a sham. You can't love someone if you don't know how to love yourself. That was one of the millions of lessons in that movie. Another would definatly that if you really love someone, you can let them go no problem. Another would be that you can care for someone, but only when you know how to care for your self. So yes regarding something else that you said, 2 people trying to care for each other is a hindrance when you think of how much of that energy could be used to care for their own souls first.

My 2 cents of courage
Treatment? Seperate couples, drug treatment is not a couple's retreat.

[jeepack]

It would not be impossible... but from experience, the truth underneath the addiction could be that your relationship is also based on addiction and could be toxic in itself. It's a case by case thing. But many addictive personalities get in a couple for all the wrong reasons. Swim would rather be alone all his life than be with one person for the wrong reason. I would concentrate on kicking the habit even if it meant taking a break from the partner. Because as most people said, you need perfect timing so that both want to quit and both are ready to put in the same efforts. If you want to kick it but fail to because of a partner, then ask yourself what is more important to you: Your life, your health, your happiness, your kicking of the drug? Or the relationship? Swim's biggest concern doing the 12 step program was that he wouldn't see the need to be with his GF after it. He went back, but only to leave later, his fear being grounded in the truth that the relationship did not start on a goog foundation and was basically... a SHAM! This is my 2 cents, not meant to be pessimistic at all. It's just that from experience, swim knows that if there are two addicts in the relationship, there are good chances that the relationship be put in question if ever attending rehab.