Smoking - Am I treading an old and dangerous road?

[Qualityplant]

Hi all

I received a letter from SWIM yesterday:

"I've been smoking the light brown powdery sort of H 2/3 a month for he last 3 months. I like it because I do a fair amount of coke most weekends and it is nice to come-down off. And sometimes I smoke in the week to relax me. I would rather smoke weed but I cannot because i once got bad cannabis psychosis and I have to stay away. It's annoying because I am quite highly strung and I found the relaxing effect of MJ really helpful in my life.

Anyway I scored some nice stuff with the help of a homeless guy when I was in Edinburgh on business exactly 1 week ago. I wasn't sick, I really enjoyed the buzz, smoking lines in my hotel room. It was really nice and the following day at work I had a nice fuzzy barrier between myself and the world.

I have a number of rules in place to stop me getting hooked:

1) I do not buy more than 0.4g a week
2) My dealer lives 8 miles away in another town, I cannot drive and there are not great transport links so it takes me all afternoon to pick up
3) Do not associate with any junkies/ people who do rock or H (I always do this alone - one friend knows i do it, my other friends and gf don't know)

The important thing is, since last time in Edinburgh, I have felt a stronger desire than usual to get high again. Now it has been exactly 1 week I am keen to pick up soon.

My question is, given my rules and given the desire I feel to get high more often than my rules allow, how dangerous is my behavior?"

SWIM's letter ends here and I have posted it here for SWIM to get feedback

Thanks!

[chillinwill]

Red Rock thinks that SWIY is treading on very thin water. From the sounds of it, SWIY started off just using recreationally; however, it seems like the psychological addiction is starting to take place if it isn't already there now. SWIY has set some good barriers to try to prevent the addiction from manifesting but that isn't always fool proof and once the addiciton does take place, making the 8 mile trip to get it won't seem that bad at all and SWIY will start increasing the amount that they buy due to tolerance. Has SWIY ever experienced any withdrawal due to their using?

[Qualityplant]

SWIM has never had what he would consider withdrawal although swim finds his sleep is disturbed after using

[Herbal Healer 019]

Just stay away from needles & dont use everyday to avoid physical addiction otherwise SWIM will keep putting off quitting or taking a break to avoid withdrawels which will inebidably turn into a full blown addiction.

Heroin probably isn't that much more addictive than pharmaceutical opiates which SWIM is a big fan of, so I'd imagine with the right amount of self discipline SWIY can alltogether avoid addiction. Good Luck

Reputation Comments on this post:

	dangerous advice, addiction through non-needle use is just as bad. Please check your facts better
	Bad harm reduction advice. Using non-injected opiates every other day can be addictive. Also the kind of self-discipline...

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by Herbal Healer 019

Just stay away from needles & dont use everyday to avoid physical addiction otherwise SWIM will keep putting off quitting or taking a break to avoid withdrawels which will inebidably turn into a full blown addiction.

Heroin probably isn't that much more addictive than pharmaceutical opiates which SWIM is a big fan of, so I'd imagine with the right amount of self discipline SWIY can alltogether avoid addiction. Good Luck

I don't really agree with all of that because take this forum for example. Sure, there are a select few that can use heroin and not become became addicted to it; however, the great majority all of had problems at one time or another with it. If SWIY can be in that select few, then more power to ya because Red Rock wishes he could have done that. Also, don't let believe the myth that one can only become addicted to heroin through using needles and using everyday. This is what most full blown addicts look like but there are many people that become addicted to it through just snorting and using a couple times a week. Just be extremely careful with heroin and Red Rock wishes you the best of luck in whatever SWIY's decides.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good, responsible advise.
	nice level-headed advice

[BrownStreakRailroad]

SWIM completly agrees with SWIchillinwill, SWIM has used needles only a handful of times and SWIM has been a heavy addict for 12-13 years!! take it from SWIM, 8 miles isnt that much of a hurdle and also just because non of SWIY friends use gear at the mo, as SWIY change, and SWIY inevitably will if SWIY continue using, then SWIY 'friends' will change too. SWIMs advice would be to leave well alone if SWIY can, its simply not worth the risk, as in the whole time of SWIM being in the 'game', there is only one that SWIM knows of who can use recreationally and two that have succesfully quit, and never gone back!!

Reputation Comments on this post:

good, useful, and very important and imformative advice given here

[MotherSuperior]

One way or another, everyone that takes H is well trodden and dangerous road.

The tragedy for swiy is your at that pinnacle stage before it becomes part of swiy, part of your being and all of swiy existence. Swiy will start to slip and break your own rules, it what happened to swim and many many others.
You are obviously concerned otherwise you would not have posted... the thing is theres other drugs out there that will relax you other than MJ and H. GHB/GLB is one swim uses and finds it usefull to help sleep(although so-far-down-the-road is swim that he got a GBL addiction while not as horrible WDing as H/Methadone could still rather have done without it). Speed actually relaxes swim and does some others, maybe you could be one?

It is just impossible for swim to tell you how having a H/Methadone habit for most of swims adult life has ruined things for swim. And irony is that swim gets Methadone so he does'nt cluck but he does'nt feel anything either. Anything. Don't be like SWIM, now is the time to take a break for at least a few months, if you had any inkling of how a habit can change your life then you would NEVER go near it again. Swim bets the homeless guy could tell you a story.... once we were all non addicts. It's hard to enjoy H recreationally... very hard and you need rules and to stick by them and if your craving then thats a big warning IMHO. Good luck!

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good, responsible advise

[Junkhead23]

This users post reminds SWIM of himself when he first started. Even the afterbuzz the day after (which disappears completely after more regular use)

SWIM now uses needles and is a hopeless addict. If SWIY have problems with anxiety or depression stay away from H as it helps so much at first. Take it from SWIM. Read this it may put you off:


http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/blog.php?b=519

[mickey_bee]

Swiy sounds exactly like me 2 and a half years ago. I'm now an addict, and have tried repeatedly to get off....I'm starting my second methadone treatment on monday.....this time my aim isn't even to get clean, it's just to make my life less stressful and chaotic by not needing to score several times everyday.

If you continue the way you're going, you will become an addict. Sounds dramatic I know, but this is the way it starts.....as soon as you properly get the taste for it, which you clearly have, you're fucked unless you cut it out of your life completely.
Say your goodbyes now. Life's shit when all you have time for is heroin, you're always skint, always worrying about getting sick, always finding yourself in sketchy as fuck dangerous situations, always breaking the law, always supremely constipated always................well, you get the idea.

[Qualityplant]

that's very helpful swim has lots of food for thought thanks

[ghostdeini]

Qualityplant, it sounds like who you are describing is a grown-up out in the professional world... I'm bewildered as to why this person is willing to risk his job, his relationship, and legal future just for a couple hours of fun

it sounds like you are beginning to head down that dark road... if you are having to debate it with yourself and go so far as to ask for other peoples' input. just be careful and take care of yaself. peace my brotha

[yaba]

Think in the heroine handbook it says: don't use for more then (few hours, can't remember the exact hours) in a 72 hour period. To avoid addiction..

Please look it up..

[mickey_bee]

Originally Posted by Qualityplant

I have a number of rules in place to stop me getting hooked:

1) I do not buy more than 0.4g a week
2) My dealer lives 8 miles away in another town, I cannot drive and there are not great transport links so it takes me all afternoon to pick up
3) Do not associate with any junkies/ people who do rock or H (I always do this alone - one friend knows i do it, my other friends and gf don't know)

To be honest mate, from what you've said, you've already got the taste for it. I'm pretty sure the next time you score you'll feel a little bit of relief, a bit like the first fag of the day......

And that's when you need to kick it, because that pull continues to get stronger, even if you don't start using more frequently.
However, when you find urself thinking about heroin whenever you're not on it, chances are you'll buckle, like most members of the human race. And when you buckle and start using it more frequently it really gets hard to stop, both physically and mentally.

I don't mean to poo-poo your staying clean strategies, but I used to have em too, most heroin addicts probably did at one point, they really don't work.

In a few days when swim gets money he's travelling 300miles. Just for heroin. 8 miles.

Anyway, it is of course your choice, and if you're anything like me then you'll probably keep scoring anyway.........but just remember that even the scummiest of smackheads started off like you.
Take care man.

[Hapworth]

As others have said, it's easy to control drug use in the beginning. SWIM would use low-level opiates once a week or once every other week. Slowly, the time reduced to SWIM taking once every few days, then once every other day, then daily. Over time, SWIM's opiate use consistently moved up from lower-level opiates (codeine, darvocet, tramadol) to mid-level opiates (hydro) to higher-level opiates (dilaudid, oxy), to, finally, the granddaddy of them all: H.

[chillinwill]

Red Rock thinks this is how a lot of people's addiction begins is formulating a plan and trying to stick with it. Eventually with opiates, at least for the majority of people, they start not following their own rules such as once a month, once a week, only on weekends, etc. Eventually it becomes an everyday thing and just because this was Red Rock's experience doesn't mean it will happen to SWIY. However, many addicts don't start out saying they wish to become addicts to ponder why they became an addict. If SWIY is NOT in that majority, then more power to them as this is a very, very hard thing to do. But if they are, be careful and if they still insist on using, use all the harm reduction they can and know where they can go if it gets out of hand

[BumpBump]

swim just started a thread about chipping, swim thinks 48 hours can be enough to get sick if its a regular thing

[rhudson]

My dog sent me this e-mail:

"I'm not going to say heroin ruined my life (it didn't) but I began snorting/smoking and eventually my habit grew to the point where I had to use the needle to deal with my tolerance. But to be clear, I was highly addicted BEFORE I made the switch to the needle. So the idea that you can't get hooked unless you boot is NONSENSE. It's true that shooting makes it a lot easier because it is so much more potent, but smack is smack. And .4 g a week can surely get you hooked, though probably not with a terrible habit, a habit nonetheless. And they are self-perpetuating.

That said, statistically, most people who use dope will never become addicts. Does that mean you should continue? NO. As someone else previously observed, you must be concerned or you wouldn't post here. Clearly you like H enough to want to make it a frequent part of your life which probably means you are predisposed to addiction to it. Doing heroin on the weekends is fun and exciting. Doing heroin every day F'ING SUCKS. BEING A JUNKIE IS NOT FUN, ROMANTIC, OR COOL. It just blows and trying to quit makes you feel weak and powerless. I thought I was stronger than the horse when I started. I was wrong. I really encourage you just to give it up now. It's so much easier at the stage you are in then when you have to suffer a nightmare withdrawal session to get free. My brain's reward systems and sensations of pain are still all twisted from my old habit. Are you really telling the truth when you say you'd rather use cannibis? I doubt this, let's be frank, but if you are, for fucks sake find something else than dope."

[10001110101]

people get addicted to oral painkillers all the time.

smoking is just about the most addictive way to use any drug (think about crack)

smoking IMO is about as addictive as chipping. in fact in some circles smoking is frowned upon while chipping isn't

i know a lot of ex-meth heads who would bang it and refused to smoke it b/c the smokers were the ones with a problem (not true but an interesting perspective nonetheless)

you are at what i would call pre-addiction. you've realized it's power to persuade you and make you exclude other things in order to get high.



take a break man. the cocaine is enabling your H use, so cut that out, and take a break from the H as well.

spend about a month away from anything super addictive.

if you feel W/D's when you quit get some aspirin, immodium, and DXM. it'll help.

10001110101 added 2 Minutes and 58 Seconds later...

and yeah dude after about a week or two off the coke you should be stable enough to use cannabis w/o being psychotic.

and i've never heard of cannabis psychosis. maybe a panic attack, but not psychosis.

then again stranger things have happened.

cannabis is safe to use and at worst you're a stoner who has bad taste in movies. lol.

10001110101 added 3 Minutes and 30 Seconds later...

yeah and don't ever get to the point where you have to "quit"

like go through W/D's and all that bullshit because then you've got a monkey for life.

the only thing i've ever been addicted to was nicotine, it was a shitty buzz and it still calls me, just writing this sentence makes me crave a cigarette.

i use pills fairly often and when i quit smoking i realized how much i dont have room in my life for any more addictions!

10001110101 added 1 Minutes and 27 Seconds later...

damn it replace "i" with SWIM.

why can't i edit my posts?!?!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Totally misinformed
	cannabis psychosis is a cery real condition

[Esmerelda]

Originally Posted by 10001110101

and i've never heard of cannabis psychosis. maybe a panic attack, but not psychosis.

Not meaning to come down hard on your post or anything but thought I should point out that there have been at three major studies which have shown a link between cannabis and schizophrenia.

As for 'cannabis psychosis' - there is a short lived psychiatric disorder which seems to be associated with cannabis use, but I think there's still some debate over whether it's a condition in it's own right, or the beginnings of schizophrenia (or some other long-term psychotic condition).

In other words, Swi-QP is wise to stop using cannabis if he's experienced psychotic episodes!

I don't want to diverge from the forum topic too much, so here's a link to an article on cannabis and mental health which is quite good if you want to know more: http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealt...alhealth.aspx.

[Junkhead23]

SWIMs friend had cannabis psychosis. It IS real SWIM doesn't care what anybody says. It only happens to about 10% of the population and you have to use every day too but it does happen. Cannabis does cause mental problems. Paranoia affects a few of the cannabis users SWIM knows badly. These are people who have never taken anything else either.

[AceOvArts]

SWIM also had a friend that suffered cannabis psychosis, she smoked only once and has let the experience almost ruin her life, its almost unbelievable but there is a wide gamut of people and there are bound to be a few that can be seriously effected by any drug.

But back on topic, SWIM would like to hear how SWIQualityplant is doing now. This is very interesting to SWIM right now.

[Qualityplant]

hi

SWIM thanks you for the advice

update:

SWIM hadn't used for over 2 weeks and was happily taking coke and using red wine/rum to come down off. Then SWIM drank some poppy tea 8 days ago and there happened to be a casual H user in the vicinity and this lead to SWIM smoking a very small amount. Combined with the poppy tea SWIM was liking it )

SWIM does not feel any need to go pick up H at all (the lack of coke recently has given him enough to think about) and SWIM is avoiding doing H completely. That said, he is going to get some poppies off a friend and make some tea for this weekend's fat Dubstep (google it, it's heavy) party.

SWIM doesn't want to pick up any more H but can see himself possibly doing some in future... he thinks it's nice to have the option but realizes that it should only be used very very occasionally.

Thanks again

[RadioHead]

Maybe try a lesser opiate? if relaxation and helping in a comedown is what you are looking for i don't think you have to have picked heroin.

Although maybe telling you to try lesser opiates is a bad idea, as they can be easier to get access to, if you do try codeine or something, keep to your same rules, even though the drug is less addicting.

[RHINESTONECOWBOY]

swim's been smoking tar nearly every day for almost 2 months. he gets a bit sick when he's not on it. besides that, it was easy to quit for him especially with the help of suboxone. just a small piece of subox when he would feel the sickness start to come.. and in several days it was as if he hadn't even touched tar. he still wanted it because he enjoyed it but besides that his physical addiction had passed. the stronger addiction of the two is the psychological addiction. even after you feel fine, that's what will make you go back to the substance.

[Benniboi]

very dangerous road mate, it creeps up on you and you will probably start to experience a stronger and stronger desire to use again with more regularity. with SWIM he didn't realize he had developed a physical dependence until it was too late- tread very carefully pal!