Combinations - My first trip/insomnia help please: LSD and JWH-018

[BloodyMuffin]

Alright, Swim needs a bit of help. He thinks he'll start by explaining his experience. if you do not want to read the whole experience then just know that i need to know what effects JWH-018 might have with Acid, and how best to get to sleep after your trip is over.

Swim decided that he wanted to drop some acid for the first time and just happened to have a very old friend who could supply (we'll call him supplier) and a friend who was willing to trip with him (we'll call him tripper). he also had a Friend who would trip sit and supply the house (sitter) and a girl (Girl) who he knew who wanted to watch/try some JWH-018. Swim and tripper took 2.5 tabs of the acid according to suppliers instructions. the acid was taken directly before they went off with sitter to go get him a new tv. After spending about and hour and a half buying this new tv swim and tripper were still not feeling the effects kick in and became rather miffed as this had happened before and the acid had turned out to be bum (Swim does not considwer that his first time). Swim called supplier and supplier called a friend who told swim and tripper to wait another 30 minutes or so. so while waiting swim and tripper decided that to pass the time and aleviate the nausea they were now starting to feel, they would smoke some Zohai (JWH-018).

Well pretty soon the acid started kicking in. in fact it kicked in about the same time as the zohai and was incredibly intense. Swim first noticed something was happening when he looked into the mirror and saw himself turn into a werewolf. it became so intense in fact that swim fell to his knees in a rush of pure awesome.

I will refrain from giving an entire account as it is not necessary to help swim with his situation. just know that Wal-mart on acid and JWH-018 is incredible.

Anyway the problems for Swim started after he had been out many many hours and people were ready to head back and smoke some more zohai before bed. So Swim, Tripper, Sitter, and Girl all returned to Sitter's house and smoked some zohai. it was at this point that Swim discovered that the sort of comedown feeling he had felt before had not in fact been the acid wearing off, it had been the zohai. after the second dose of zohai he realized he was in for a long long ride. the intensity of the trip picked up directly back to full force just as Swim realized that he had only been tripping about 5 hours. Well swim wasn't too worried. Girl And Sitter were going to bed but Tripper was still awake and smoking more zohai. So swim, feeling the effects to be too intense to stand, sat on the couch and watched tv for a while. Unfortunately for Swim Tripper had had a bit too much of the zohai and actually managed to knock himself out despite being on acid.

Swim was left all alone on a counch in a dark room with nothing but his thoughts. he does not know how long he sat on that couch, he does know that the thoughts he had were unnatural and insane. none of them made any sense and he recognised that and began to panic. After what seemed like an enternity of restless insane gibberish for thoughts swim managed to go into a sort of comatose state. he was not asleep, but he was not thinking anymore either. he remained like this for maybe 2 hours before a sound brought him back to reality.

He realized it was morning and although still a bit weird in the head, he was no longer tripping. after waking Tripper because they all had to leave, he fetched girl and got ready to take her back to her place. Driving in this state was difficult but manageable. Swim would not do it again, but it was necessary.

Swim returned home and desperately tried to sleep. he was unable to though because his restless thoughts were returning. he realized that they did not make sense and began to panic again. he was worried that the acid had made him go insane. as time went on swims thoughts became more and more delusional until it reached the point wear he realized that it was because he had not slept in so long. he also realized that the longer he did not sleep for the worse it would get. Swim culd not sleep though because his insane thoughts about needing sleep kept him awake.

Swim remained awake untill at 6 that afternoon he finally managed to find some muscle relaxants to put him to sleep. by this time he had been awake for 36 hours and was completely delusional.

What Swim would like to know is what he did wrong. how could swim have assured that he

A: not go insane for most of the trip

B: Manage to get some sleep when he was done

Sorry this was so long. swim just wanted to share his experience with others and get some advice.

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

What you have just described could possibly be the classic reported effect of smoking cannabinoid receptor antagonists (such as JWH-018 and cannabis) when on acid: Doing it during the come-up accelerates the come up dramatically, and doing it during the comedown/afterglow brings back the intensity of the acid trip.

It sounds to swim like you just had a slightly bad trip on the acid, probably because you weren't expecting the trip to be brought back so intensely. This could have created some lingering anxiety but swiy certainly hasn't gone insane... sleep deprivation exacerbates anxiety in many people (swim included) and exacerbating lingering bad trip anxiety would probably account for your state of "complete delusion".

Just get some sleep, and stay strong: don't let thoughts such as "i'm going insane" enter your mind; all they will do is prolong your anxiety. Take some sleeping pills if you have to.

[RaverHippie]

Originally Posted by Joe-(5-HTP)

What you have just described is the classic reported effect of smoking cannabinoid receptor antagonists (such as JWH-018 and cannabis) when on acid: Doing it during the come-up accelerates the come up dramatically, and doing it during the comedown/afterglow brings back the intensity of the acid trip.

It sounds to swim like you just had a slightly bad trip on the acid, probably because you weren't expecting the trip to be brought back so intensely. This could have created some lingering anxiety but swiy certainly hasn't gone insane... sleep deprivation exacerbates anxiety in many people (swim included) and exacerbating lingering bad trip anxiety would probably account for your state of "complete delusion".

Just get some sleep, and stay strong: don't let thoughts such as "i'm going insane" enter your mind; all they will do is prolong your anxiety. Take some sleeping pills if you have to.

i disagree, read up on the effects of dox chemicals like doc, doc, doi etc. they take a long time to start feeling anything, 2-3 hours like the op stated. the comatose/agitated/not-quite-asleep state happens very often for the dox chemicals since the user wil expect hemselves to need to sleep so they force themselves to relax but never quite fall asleep until the sun rises again and they're still wide awake.and they last a very long time. i'm sorry but even cannabinoids cannot extend lsd to keep someone up for 36 hours.

[BloodyMuffin]

Incidentaly Swim will be taking acid with no zohai soon so as to see what sort of effects it has without the zohai. he is mostly concerned with the fact that he remained awake 36 hours as that was the least enjoyable time of his life. the insanity would have been avoidable had he had people to talk to and things to do but he needs to know what could have caused the massive amount of insomnia. If you really think it was the canmaboids then he will avoid any in his future trips, but if not then the cannaboids definitely made it interesting from what i could see.

[RaverHippie]

what i am saying is that swiy's acid is likely not acid given the effects swiy listed. it is likely a chemical such as dimethoxy-bromoamphetamine, dob, or a related chemical such as dimethoxy-iodoamphetamine, doi, for instance. these can make swiy trip for a very long time and keep swiy awake for days on end.

[Frond]

There is certainly evidence to suspect DO(x) compounds. Long onset time: check. Long duration: check. Was the blotter bitter?

Smoking cannabinoids will certainly potentiate the experience, and DO(x) compounds have a very different dose-response curve from LSD. With LSD, taking 2x the dosage doesn't necessarily double the intensity. With most phenethylamines, which DO(x) compounds are a part of, the dose-response curve is the opposite, and even a small increase in the dosage could have a dramatic increase in effects. Which basically means that SWIY could have taken 1 hit and gotten very little effect, and taken 2.5 hits and been out of this world for 36 hours. It's entirely possible.

In some scenes and areas nearly all stuff that's sold as LSD is in fact some other research chemical. Good LSD is hard to find these days and is mostly limited to certain very specific scenes/subcultures.

Tell SWIM to stick to shrooms if he doesn't want to risk being sold something unknown masquerading as acid. Shrooms are similar, though not identical, in their effects, and have about half the duration of LSD on average, usually 5-6 hours.

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

Originally Posted by RaverHippie

i disagree, read up on the effects of dox chemicals like doc, doc, doi etc. they take a long time to start feeling anything, 2-3 hours like the op stated. the comatose/agitated/not-quite-asleep state happens very often for the dox chemicals since the user wil expect hemselves to need to sleep so they force themselves to relax but never quite fall asleep until the sun rises again and they're still wide awake.and they last a very long time. i'm sorry but even cannabinoids cannot extend lsd to keep someone up for 36 hours.

Indeed you could be right. I am not saying the cannabinoids extended the lsd trip for 36 hours, but that they could have extended it further than was expected and induced an anxiety trip which could have then kept him awake. I have experienced this on stuff i knew was acid for sure, but indeed it could be another compound: I will edit my post to show that what i suggested was just a possibility.

[Songcycle67]

Originally Posted by RaverHippie

what i am saying is that swiy's acid is likely not acid given the effects swiy listed. it is likely a chemical such as dimethoxy-bromoamphetamine, dob, or a related chemical such as dimethoxy-iodoamphetamine, doi, for instance. these can make swiy trip for a very long time and keep swiy awake for days on end.

Yeah, agreed. The fact that the dealer recommended that the person take 2.5 hits of this particular batch for a starting dose would indicate that either it was weak acid (not likely from the sound of the experience) or it was on some medium (blotter, geltab, etc.) that wasn't big enough for an average dose of the mystery chemical to fit on and several doses were needed.

SWIM has never had a dealer tell him to take any more than 2, and that's only on the weakest batches imaginable. 2.5 hits of even low dose blotter (usually between 60-80ug), which is a pretty rare find these days, would be well into the psychedelic range.

[BloodyMuffin]

ok so swim is not up on all this chemistry lingo. can you please explain to him what you are talking about in non chemistry terms? pretend swim is retarded if you must. was the Acid he took not really acid at all? he's a bit confused.

Also another interesting thing here. Swim had some weird experiences for a few days after his trip. about once or twice a day for about 4 days after swim fell back asleep he would go into really weird states of mind and zone out entirely. no matter how hard he tried to concentrate he would not be able to. he also had an inability to show emotion during these times. Has anyone else gotten this? Its stopped now but confused swim for quite a while.

[Frond]

Originally Posted by BloodyMuffin

was the Acid he took not really acid at all? he's a bit confused.

Yes, that's exactly what we're saying. And don't worry about not knowing. There's no shame in not knowing, only in not wanting to know.

What SWIY took was most likely a relatively new synthetic drug, possibly DOB, or one of it's many close analogues - DOM, DOI, DOC, all are possibilities. Collectively, these drugs are usually referred to here as DO(x) compounds. These drugs are all superficially similar to acid in their effects, and are commonly sold as acid, but structurally, they are actually closer to mescaline. They are active in very small doses, a few milligrams usually, and can therefore fit on a blotter.

There really is no way to be sure what SWIY is getting sold as acid these days. But, if the blotter tastes bitter, if it takes 2 or more hours to kick into effect, and if it lasts more than 16 hours, then it's almost certain that what SWIY got wasn't acid. Acid kicks in pretty fast, the first effects are usually felt between 20 min to an hour, depending on dosage, and lasts 12-16 hours at most.

Selling DOB as acid isn't quite as dangerous as selling PMA as Ecstasy, but there is still a problem. DOB is most likely rather safe at normal dosage (it's a research chemical and not much is known, but these types of compounds in general are pretty safe). However, increasing dosage of DOB produces very different effects from increasing dosage of LSD. Taking twice as much LSD produces less than twice the potency of effects. Someone has to take a lot more acid to double the duration and intensity of the trip. DOB, on the other hand, is sort of the other way around. Taking only a little bit more than normal dosage very sharply increases the potency of effects.

This makes DOB somewhat unpredictable if the dosage isn't accurately measured, and this also makes it much less safe to sell to unsuspecting drug users. Someone could easily think "hey, I took 4 hits of acid last time and it was pretty good, so lets do that this time." 4 hits of DOB, depending on what is in each hit of course, could send someone to outer space for a very, very long time.

So, tell SWIY not to worry, and the strange effects will pass. His experience sounds rather typical for a pretty large dose of a DO(x) compound. SWIY should be in no physical danger, but he should lay off the sauce for a few weeks to say the least.

If SWIY wants to take something that he's more sure about, tell him to get shrooms instead. While shrooms can still be variable in their potency, they don't last as long, and the chances of something untoward being sold as shrooms are very low. Just tell him to make sure they're not Amanitas, since those are very different, and more dangerous. And if SWIY wants to experiment more with these types of drugs - phenethylamines, and in this case mescaline - then he should look up Peruvian Torch or San Pedro cacti. Just tell him to be smart about it; these things may be legal now, but if someone does anything stupid with them they won't stay that way for long.

Reputation Comments on this post:

very useful well explained information that helped me a lot.

[BloodyMuffin]

Swim would like to thank you all, particularly the last poster. he is now entirely certain that what he got was not acid. it did in fact taste bitter. from everything you have told him swim will decide not to use this particular source again and will in fact warn a few people. Swim has been trying to get shrooms but they are out of season so he will have to wait on that a few months. This has been a very informative experience.