Opinions - The thing I don't like about drug legalization.

[cannabis-sam]

For about 80 years drugs have been illegal and we all know about the cost of prohibition yes we've all heard the arguments a hundred times over. But In someways I think I'm going to miss drugs being illegal when legalization comes about.

Drugs now are something that's completely unregulated and to SWIM this is one of the things he loves about them not just the effects. It's one of the only thing people are still turning around to the government and saying "you know what fuck off out of my life I don't care about the law"

It seems at the moment the whole counter culture associated with drugs come from prohibition, I love the fact the people are just showing complete disregard for the law. It's great that for cannabis mainly it's not just about the drug face it, it's nothing special and we all know if it were legal that culture would disappear. The people on "legalize" marches, the fight against these stupid laws. But without these laws where does it all go. It goes from being an underground movement a passionate fight to just another product, another industry advertised, commercialized and back to the dreariness of it. And I do think it's the last fight people are still fighting against tyranny and oppression in our society.

It feels like it will be the end of an era and the in a way the end of counter cultures the rave movement of the 80's and 90's the hippie movements of the sixties and seventies where on mass people were asking for change and people have something worth fighting for. Drugs influenced music and the way people thought/think.

Drugs will become another product another mundane part of modern life rather than something that's part of a culture. Big business will move in selling and advertising.

I know ending prohibition will be better in the long run.

But I will certainly miss the culture which I think will probably dissapear with prohibition.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	A very interesting idea. I think good discussion could come from it.
	Excellent, alternate method of thinking to bring to attention. Very thought provoking.
	interesting topic

[SullyGuy]

Heh. I never thought of it that way. Dont worry, I dont think it will go away much, it might evolve though...

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

This is an interesting idea which i find it very hard to come to a conclusion about.

In my opinion, the people who just use drugs for being lazy; "stoners" or whatever, are the equivalent of commercialised consumers. People who use drugs for spiritual/introspective reasons to expand their minds or whatever are, in my opinion, the kind of people who are free from commercialisation and state intervention in their psychology anyway. The legalisation of drugs probably would create some commercialised victims but only those who are the equivalent of commercialised consumers anyway. thats just my opinion of course.

On the other hand, i feel that commercialisation would completely taint the symbolism and meaning drugs can give to people. I can picture the adds now saying "if you are depressed, take schrooms and think about how you can improve your life by working harder at your job!" Drugs would just become yet another method of indoctrination.

On the other hand, I feel that the weak and superficial belief/value system that holds society together would not be able to deal with its individuals taking psychedelic drugs. I used to think that going to india or exploring africa might give me a glimpse of "another world" but now i believe that there is only one other world which is revealed in your own mind through drug use (or spiritual methods). I think this power would be too strong to be commercialised. Incidentally, I also feel that is probably one of the reasons drugs are kept illegal.

With regard to the anarchical feelings of doing something illegal: swim also enjoys it. There is something great about feeling that swim has broken free from the unbearably mediocre laws of society and discovered things it doesn't want him to discover.

I think there is no room in this society for the revolutionary attitudes of the last century. Postmodernism, multiculturalism and other such viral social forces have ensured that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that all opinions are worthless.

So where does that leave me? It leaves me preferring drugs to be legal because that would just make things easier. I think society is beyond help. I could spend my whole life trying to change that but even if i succeeded my life would be used up...

[nate81]

Nice observation! It's obvious once it's pointed out. Part of the fun is the feeling of breaking the rules.

Now that I'm thinking about it, it seems like a kind of joke. Breaking the rules is something everyone does eventually (if you're any fun you will). So our society has an easy way to deal with this, drug laws. Without drug laws, the people who feel the need to break rules might choose something else. What would they do? Lots would shy away at the idea of vandalism or assault or something like that so they never break any rules. But breaking the rules is a kind of right of passage, like the saying you need to know where the line is by crossing it. I guess what I'm saying is that maybe our society needs an easy rule to break so people know what it's like to be on the wrong side of the law.

[Herbal Healer 019]

To SWIM, the only benefit of prohibition is the fact that one can control the price of good quality bud or other drugs & make a killing in profits compared to the bulk price it was bought for. Without prohibition the black market will drastically decrease profits for dealers or just altogether disappear due to the availability & inflation of the drugs available for purchase.

The culture of using the drugs will not go anywhere. It will remain intact, but with the abscence of the ever present glorification (music, social groups, movies, etc.) that exists due to prohibition's taboo inducing effect on the views of rec. drug use. Anybody who argues that the culture or use of recreational substances other than alcohol & tobacco will go away should look at the way alcohol is advertised & promoted during social events, there's alot more to the drug even still; our country was built on tobacco farming & alcohol brewing & its a part of history since the earliest civilizations.

If the drugs became legal they'd probably be advertised by media in a simular manner as tobacco and alcohol are & were advertised; heavily advertised at first then frowned upon for promoting it or encouraging responsible drug use (i.e. Drink Responsibly). The culture of recreational drug use would evolve through economic prosperity, availablitiy, acceptance & responsible use if legalized.

[bcubed]

Don't worry, SWIC-S. Should cannabis become legal, you can be certain that the gov't will heavily tax it (gov't isn't wild about anyone getting loaded without them getting their cut). In such an environment, growing your own (and thus circumventing the taxes) ought to be sufficient to get SWIC-S's "outlaw" kick!

In fact I've been known to (mostly in jest) argue against cannabis legalization by saying, "How the hell's a country boy supposed to make a (dis)honest living! You've legalized booze, you want to legalize pot...there just ain't enough meth labs to go around!"

I wonder if, with the legalization of cannabis, if the clandestine growers of today will come to occupy the "socially acceptable outlaw" role that the moonshiner/rumrunner did before them.

[Sven99]

I wonder if, with the legalization of cannabis, if the clandestine growers of today will come to occupy the "socially acceptable outlaw" role that the moonshiner/rumrunner did before them.

It depends on how they did it. Some probably will, but some will be seen as the Al-Capones of prohibition - responsible for violence and a dodgy product.

I like alot of aspects of drug culture, but its incredibly mainstream even if it is illegal. Drug use isn't very shocking any more, and its a common theme of music, fiction and film. Plus the average drug user now isn't that different from the average drinker.

This isn't a complaint about the commercialisation of drug culture - merely an observation.

[ATWA]

I think legalization would expand the culture not do away with it. The true drug counterculture loves itself and really cares less about the law or if drugs are illegal. It is just and inconvenience. Finding it "cool" that drugs are illegal and doing them is kind of a Junior High School mentality thing and those truly in the culture are inconvenienced by illegality. It does not enhance the experience. Pot is essentially legal in Holland and the culture in Amsterdam is not suffering. The same is true in the few US states that have minimal or no pot laws. Just like the deal with making mushrooms illegal in Holland. It does not now make the experience "cooler". It makes the experience more of a drag. That is how I see it.

[dr. swim]

Love of alcohol is a time-honored tradition in my family and I don't feel that it's legalization and regulation have any effect on this. People adopt there own "passions" and culture regardless of whether there actions are endorsed by a governing body. Simply put, governing bodies will never be able to control how we choose to live our lives.

[cannabis-sam]

Love of alcohol is a time-honored tradition in my family and I don't feel that it's legalization and regulation have any effect on this. People adopt there own "passions" and culture regardless of whether there actions are endorsed by a governing body. Simply put, governing bodies will never be able to control how we choose to live our lives.

i can see your point but my feeling is drug culture is an underground one, and thats what I love about it, it's despised and swept under the carpet by most of the middle classes (obviously there are some that enjoy it but generally I'm talking). Drugs being legal would be drugs going main stream, becoming another casualty of consumerism, sold, advertised and packaged.

I just feel the underground culture will go, not that the culture will go altogether, kind of like when punk was an underground culture then it just became another fashion sold in highstreet shops to teenage kids.

It will definatly be end of an era.

[aerozeppelin123]

This is a very interesting idea. I think that the culture would lose its appeal to many people as in my experience there are quite a lot of people (I guess including SWIM to some extent) that enjoy saying a big 'fuck you' to the law, and this would be removed if drugs were legalised, and I can imagine it becoming more 'clinical' and homogenised which may also lessen the appeal in some way.

There would also be a big difference in the way people interact and socialise through drugs, as in SWIM's experience prohibition allows people to make contacts that they wouldn't otherwise make. I'm sure most SWIMmers can think of at least one example of a time when they have met someone or made friends through arranging hook-ups for one another, helping them to score, you get talking, etc etc. This factor would also be removed which might be a shame, even if such friendships can often be fairly superficial and drug-based.

Even so, in my opinion the benefits of controlled regulation would far outweigh these minor drawbacks.

[TheFamousSpacewhale]

I've thought about this also, cannabis culture would die along with prohibition. Everyone buying a pack of joints, no more throwing in a bit of everyone's stash and rolling one nice blunt and passing it to the left. The smoking aspect would lose quite a bit on the social side of things.

[DopinDan]

Originally Posted by cannabis-sam

But I will certainly miss the culture which I think will probably dissapear with prohibition.

So it seems like SWIY is saying that for some reason SWIY feel as if what SWIY are doing is deemed "wrong" by society and somehow by partaking in the alleged "wrong" makes it dangerous and exciting, perhaps glamorous.

SWIM does admit that the 60' and 70's did birth some of the finest music and art, not to mention underground comix

If so, SWIM understands where you are coming from, but SWIM feels the status quo is extremely harmful to individuals, to be locked up, and have their bodies virtually owned by the state. thus the danger element and counterculture element does not justify prohibition.

[cannabis-sam]

Oh don't get me wrong I'm all for ending prohibition, and I know it's better I just feel that the one good thing about prohibition will dissapear.

[doggy_hat]

Originally Posted by DopinDan

So it seems like SWIY is saying that for some reason SWIY feel as if what SWIY are doing is deemed "wrong" by society and somehow by partaking in the alleged "wrong" makes it dangerous and exciting, perhaps glamorous.

SWIM does admit that the 60' and 70's did birth some of the finest music and art, not to mention underground comix

If so, SWIM understands where you are coming from, but SWIM feels the status quo is extremely harmful to individuals, to be locked up, and have their bodies virtually owned by the state. thus the danger element and counterculture element does not justify prohibition.

I don't think that it's so much that the culture would die (or get wounded) because it's no longer labeled as wrong, but that by being illegal, the culture is actually protected from corporate exploitation. As cannabis-sam said with punk culture, drug culture would be mutilated, watered down, and sold in a fashionable mall outlet geared towards pseudo-druggies.

[pushnpull]

this is an interesting conversation.....although the the idea behind pandora's box would hopefully diminish slowly as time wore on if all drugs were legalized, in the states it would be a full generation before it was ever fully accepted & not frowned upon. the flip side, as most statistics show, drug use would indeed drop if all drugs were leagalized. which means in the long haul, hopefully less casualties. we all know that there would be less people in jail, less crime yada yada....
getting back to the main dealio here:
As it stands that feeling of unity that people intimate or anonymus, near or far away is something all users share to one degree or another & I believe that feeling is due to an assumption that the act of doing drugs is a rebellion in itself of numerous things; the govt. being one, our past generation, youth, society etc...Also, in my mind a choice or rebillion of my own personal freedom & personally I find saftey in knowing that there are millions who probabley feel close to the same.
so, the conversation for me & the colundrum is what we have been spiritually, religiously, societal, personally etc.. struggling for is now a real possibility - legalization. will those feelings of mass, anonymus unity in ritual, smoking bowls in circles of old & new friends, sneaking out to snort a line or driving into the hood to score H - palms sweaty with nervousness, will they die with legalization?
maybe, but what we lose we shall celebrate in VICTORY in our righteous new found freedoms. to get high without the paranoia once & for all!! to score without being freaked out, to not worry about so much gang violence, not to worry about prison and these nightmarish minimum Federal sentencing guidelines. to go get a Dr. script/recommendation to be able to legally carry 2 grms of coke or H....am I dreaming here, do not wake me..
interesting thought though & thanks
going back to bong now

[Toma]

Come to think about it, prohibition may be healthy for democracy in a way, as it teaches many people from a young age to distrust the government.

[Junkhead23]

Does anyone really not distrust their government?

[Toma]

Americans seem to have a healthy distrust of government, even without prohibition. Also, maybe your social circles are more "counter-cultural" since you are on a drug forum. But the majority of the population still is pro-establishment. One proof of it is that weed is still illegal and that the recent propositions to legalize it were voted down. Also, some people buy into the current spin that weed nowadays is 10x stronger than it was when they smoked it in college back 30 years ago, preferring to believe what the gov't tells them than what they experienced themselves.

If you want to see trust in government though, you should look to the more liberal and statist European countries. The truth is that they really have less reason to distrust their government. In many of them there is much better working democracy and less corruption, and this is also reflected in their liberal drug policies.

The UK I think is a prime example of this. The blind trust they have in their government seems almost scary to me. Mass surveillance, cameras everywhere, warrantless searches, gun grabbing, biometric id's, looks like they're really big Orwell fans. Admittedly, the British government has never betrayed its people in a blatant way, but that may change in the future.

[Tony Williams]

Cocaine wouldn't be the same if it was legal.

[dr. swim]

I don't see why the culture would die out, it's not like making it legal would suddenly make it less appealing to smoke and have a good time with friends.

After alcohol prohibition was ended the drinking culture never died out.

[SmokeRings]

pushnpull said most of what SWIM was thinking in a much kinder way than SWIM could of. SWIM unfortunately can't let this one pass though, she's got to state her opinions!

SWIM apologizes to the OP in advance if she comes across as somewhat bitchy, but SWIM is a bit disturbed by the thought process. Please don't take offense, as SWIM strongly feels everyone has the right to their opinion, hence SWIM writing what you are about to read!

SWIM finds the topic interesting, but was very surprised at how many people agree moreso with the OP than not. SWIM probaby felt that way about drugs when she was 14 and can't help but think the OP is younger, meaning, it seems like a very immature view. For SWIM, drug use is no longer about "breakin' the law, breakin' the law" but that she enjoys them and feels that she shouldn't be persecuted for doing so in a responsible manner and WANTS legalization and would think most users would!

SWIM can't wait for the day that she can go to 7-11 and buy a pack of joints or a bag and not have to worry about the drive home, watching for cops, all that shit. SWIM also feels that legalization could help this country out, especially right now, drugs would stop citizens from being personally taxed, because we all know how much money would be made from the legalization. Drugs could probably single handedly get us out of the current economic crisis we are in. SWIM also knows the government would grow some really kick ass shit.

SWIM is on the fence about what drugs, other than MJ that should/could be legalized though. Things like Heroin are scary, but then again, if the government were making it, at least the user wouldn't have to worry about getting bad shit and ODing or dying, same with meth or coke. Better quality, or varying grades even, imagine the possibilities!

SWIM see's the OPs point, but only to a very small extent. To SWIM, it sounds like the OP thinks that once it's legal, they won't be "cool" in an underground, I'm hip and awesome way because they can't actually break the law anymore, which to SWIM, is a very irresponsible way to look at it. If using is a way to make someone feel more cool, more rebelious against societal norms, then they are using for the wrong reasons. Why would anyone want to keep things the way they are, and risk prison time and all associated with getting caught? That's just plain silly to SWIM.

SWIM reads into the OP and thinks they are basically saying that drugs becoming legal would be very similar to the term "selling out" like people say a rock band does when they actually make money from what they do. When they make it, get a single on the radio and such. SWIM has always hated the term, as musicians generally are musicians to earn a living, live the life and make money, most don't do it solely for their passion towards music, most musicians have the rock and roll dream.

Ok, people who are in symphony's and orchestras and such obviously do it for the love and not the money, but SWIM bets they are envious that playing the cello doesn't earn them the same money and fame that being Paul McCartney does...is SWIM getting her point across? She's not sober, and knows she's rambling...

Bottom line, legalization is a good thing. If the government was smart (so in other words, this won't happen) they would employ the growers and chemists who were once on the black market, they obviously know what they are doing!

So what if MJ cigs are advertised? It is only creating more jobs, more revenue and more success and wealth for more people. Just like anything else, you don't like the commerical/movie/show you are watching, turn it off, or change the channel. You can remain "underground" all you want, but I bet you would be laughed at.

Life evolves, times change, progress is not made if we remain stagnant. Those who resist generally get left behind...

[elpatto]

SWIM occasionally swings back and foward, never actually hitting either poles heard here.

Ok I dont think this fella got it completely ^^^^, Im fairly sure that the guy that who posted it was coming from more of a "Leave my narcotta alone" rather than a "Theres nothing you can do to stop me" point.

Do you really beleive that anyone still plays the "Bad-boy"?? Really tell me what you think. Not only is this kinda a load of shit but I dont think it has ever really been true, NEVER. Do you think those stereotypical pothead-hippies of the 60s-70s got more pussy then the quarterbacks? I guess the kinda "Junkie without the junk" look is in, purely from observing the youth at the mall, but how far would this go.

SWIM sticks by the idea that the majority of serious drug users are somewhat against or at least weary of the law. At the same time there is a degree of sepparation that a drug user might notice, for instance, SWIM remembers starting highschool and smoking pot behind the car-park with all the seniors, liking the feeling of security and being a group rather then trying to burn a joint quickly and looking over the shoulder every second second.

[jakored]

Originally Posted by SullyGuy

Heh. I never thought of it that way. Dont worry, I dont think it will go away much, it might evolve though...

I think it will more evolve into even more positive uses, outlooks and groups coming together.

At least, in an ideal setting.

Perhaps 5 million people doing ONE GOOD mushroom trip would bring about extraordinary change