Alkaloid Content of Mimosa Hostilis

Does anyone have any information on an analysis of the alkaloid content of Mimosa Hostilis?



Failing that, the % of n,n-DMT, 5-methoxy-n,n-DMT, 5-hydroxy-n,n,-DMT (bufotenin)?

[Dimitri]

There should be just N,N-DMT in Mimosa Hostillis. As far as I know it is 0.57%.

Originally Posted by Dimitri

There should be just N,N-DMT in Mimosa Hostillis. As far as I know it is 0.57%.

I doubt that the only alkaloid in Jurema is n,n-DMT. It maybe the only psychotropic one.....



I'd like analysis that includes inactive alkaloids too. Basically, what
% of a crystalline alkaloid extract will be n,n-DMT. Any information
would be useful.



Please could you include references too.



I don't ask for much, honest

[transit]

I just spent awhile looking in books and
online for an answer to your question – no answers. </span>I am surprised. </span>It is an obvious and important question,
though not one that I recall having seen addressed before.</span>


I will be very interested in seeing if
someone is able to offer an answer to this along with a reference. </span></span>

[Dimitri]

Well, it is at the moment the only tryptamin alkaloid found in Mimosa,
or at least the only one there is information about. Of course there
CAN be more than just the N,N, It is even high propably that there is
more, but nothing was found in the few analysis done. At least the
one's I read about. So I guess you ask quite much for

[allyourbase]

there is some possibility of there being MAOI's. however theyre thought to exist only in trace amounts. it has no other alkaloids...perform an extraction, youll see potency is ~ that of fine grade synthetic.

Has anyone got any first hand accounts of extracted Mimosa DMT vs. synthetic DMT?



It's a long shot........

[DrugPhreak]

There is no life formon this planet thatcontains onlyone alkaloid. Also, I've never readany data, whichstatesMimosa Hostilis rootbark contains B-Carbolines. If it did oral consumption wouldn't be an issue of course. Although,pulling the freebase with halogenated hydrocarbons can partially convert some of the alkaloids (including DMT) into B-Carbolines in high amounts via Pictet-Spengler.Edited by: DrugPhreak

[indjuwandjuwa]

DrugPhreak - I did read somewhere on the net- information from Jonathan Ott - that there is a substance in the rootbrk - maybe not a B-carboline - that inhibits the amine in the rootbark from being broken down. J Ott is the MH master , me thinks.

[Eirias]

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Ott's research into why M. hostilis is active orally without an MAOI
suggests that it is due to a mechanism of secondary gut
absorption, in which the DMT passes by the body's primary MAO
enzymes and is absorbed across the walls of the intenstines, rather
than the presence of an MAOI-like compound. While there was
initially some hypothesizing that the activity of the M. hostilis
rootbark was due to a non-alkaloidal compound with MAOI-like protective
qualities (i.e. kyosygenine(sp?)) it was found by Ott that the said
non-alkaloidal substance was not even present in M. hostilis, but
rather in other Mimosa spp. Regardless, the fact remains that
Jurema is active as a tea without any additional plants, as any
personal bioassay will attest.

My understanding is that the alkaloidal profile of M. hostilis
rootbark is very much largely made up of almost exclusively n,n-DMT (I
believe over 95%), with the next most prevalent alkaloid being the
non-psychoactive n-methyltryptamine, aka monomethyltryptamine or
NMT. If there are any other active alkaloids in M. hostilis
rootbark, then they are in such trace concentrations as to be
negligable as to their affect as combined with the n,n-DMT, at least in
the dosage range a human would be experiencing via the use of an
extracted, purified crystalline DMT product from M. hostilis rootbark.

DP-- ahhh, Pictet-Spengler, the evil culprit that marred so many
potentially good DMT synths. Do you really think that something
like DCM could fuck up an extraction that way?

Hmmm-- I
never thought of using
something like methyliodide to transform extracted DMT into a b</span>-carboline!
It's like reacting a T. peruvianus extraction with some sort of reagent
to yield something like proscaline or TMA! It even reminds me of a lecture I once heard on the
"ethnopharmocognoscy" of psilocybian mushrooms, in which the
experimenter dosed various psilocybin mushrooms with DET and DIPT to
create 'shrooms that contained both psilocin and 4-HO-DET or 4-HO-DIPT!


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Edited by: Eirias

[Eirias]

The discussion on the activity of M. hostilis can be found here:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mimosa/mimosa_info2.sht ml

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[DrugPhreak]

I can't access any literature where I live right now, but have a look atthis. After doing an A/B with DCM 2-Methyltetrahydro-b-carboline was found at~10% by weight. I see that the Phytochemistry reference states that Phalaris Arundiaceadoes in fact contain this substance, but maybe there is Mimosa somewhere that contains it (or a similar substance) also. This substance is a metabolite of DMT so it may be that some people metabolize thisMAOIto a greater extent than other people for some reason.


This is also an interesting threadthat deals with Trichocereus Peruvianus.Edited by: DrugPhreak

[Eirias]

Wow. He doesn't clarify this point, but I am assuming that
he obivously used the rootbark</span>, </span></span>and not some other part of the plant as his initial source material. And
it remains a mystery whether it is a result of that sneaky
Pictet-Spengler rxn brought on by the halogenated hydrocarbon nonpolar
i.e. DCM, or if it in fact it's found in the initial plant material to
begin with. This question could be straightened out a bit if
he/she (or whomever) was to do another MHRB extraction with a
non-halogenated NP solvent like the traditional naphtha and then
perform the chromatography.

If it is indeed found in the rootbark naturally, then Ott's
theory I cited, about various DMT adducts competing with the primary n,n-DMT for
MAO enzymes in the digestive tract as being the source of
Jurema's "neat" activity in humans (i.e. no MAOI adjunct plant is
needed) is possibly incorrect, due to this newfound b</span>-carboline
factor. Yet in the reference of Ott's I linked to above, he states
that approximately five mostly unpublished analyses of MHRB alkaloid
profiles have failed to show the presence of any MAOI-like
beta-carbolines.

Is is really possible that Ott, or whomever else
performed these MHRB analyses was so careless or poor in his/her
methodology as to overlook something so seemingly obvious? 10% of
the whole alkaloid profile is hardly "trace", and to me the data
DrugPheak has brought up coupled with the Ott reference suggest that in
fact the detected presence of beta-carbolines in the aforementioned
experiment is indeed a result of a reactionary mechanism, most likely
Pictet-Spengler.

If anyone has hypothetical access to synthetic or otherwise
98-99%+ pure n,n-DMT, then please consider the potential experiment of
comparing that substance with the extracted and purified crystalline
"DMT" alkaloid product as is derived from M. hostilis rootbark, with the intention as to determine
any subjective idiosyncracies. A futher experiment could be
conducted ala Gracie & Zarkov</span>, involving the smoking of n,n-DMT
with b</span>-carbolines and then comparing this to the MHRB DMT product.

G & Z's experiment I mentioned is titled something like
"Three Beta-carboline Containing Plants as Possible Potentiators of
Smoked DMT", and the plants they use are Passiflora incarnata, Peganum
harmala, and Banisteriopsis caapi. <!--
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Edited by: Eirias

[DrugPhreak]

Yeah, I wouldlove tosee theGC/MScomparisons between an A/B where the freebase was pulledwith DCM and other non-halogenated solvents. Also, I wish they did an oral bioassay. I have tried to contact this person, but theyno longer post on that forum. Is anyone in contact with them or know if they are posting on another board? If so please send me a PM. If I ever found a way to get a GC/MS I would burn that sucker out in no time. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><O:P></O:P>Edited by: DrugPhreak

[raven3davis]

Is it possible to have bark that is 2%? I wass reading in some forums, and people were saying they could get like 1.5grams of DMT from only like 1/4lb or something like that. That seems unbelieveable to me.

[Marsofold]

I don't believe it either. "Experts" don't bother with quarter pounds...

[Dimitri]

I was wondering about the same. I guess what they get is NaOH or other impurities in their final crystals.

[Eirias]

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The only situation I could imagine in which the Mimosa rootbark would
yield anywhere near that high would be if it was "high quality inner"
rootbark of an already potent strain. This is still speculation
on my part nonetheless. It seems like the Mimosa rootbark is much
more consistent in its alkaloid profile and content than nearly any
other DMT-containing plant material, especially green leafy sources
like Phalaris and Psychotria.

[MegaLab420]

If you put in as much effort to extracting the stuff, you could synthesise it!


Swim has extracted DMT years ago from MH root bark and the process took 2 days and was extreeeeemly messy. Not to mention I broke a brand new blender and ended up with 1 whopping dose.


Pshhh, I feel ashamed looking back on the time I wasted.

[MegaLab420]

Ok, well maybe it's not that easy to synthesise.. (after reading my opening statement) But the extraction is alot of work for little reward. Not to mention cost..

[Dimitri]

Yeah you are right, extraction might be a mess and its costing
something as well, thatswhy I decided against it. But if you don't got
a good (and/or pricely reasonable) source for spice you do quite a lot for it. I calculated even
more than 2 days, my "supplier" told me simply to evaporate the
solution takes almost 2 weeks.

Extraction vs. Synth - I think Extraction is still easier and cheaper
at least to get the materials. I looked at the synt and didn't
understand anything while I got the basics of the Acid/base Extraction
(e.g from Jim DeKorne's book) pretty quickly.

It IS easier I would say.


Edited by: Dimitri

[Marsofold]

[Prices discussion is not allowed outside the sources forum. Please read the rules.]Edited by: Alfa

[daeron]

the synth isnt that much of a problem,but the chems may be.


and for the synth swim used you definitely need a lab partner.


so all in all swim thinks that if youre into a few times a yr dtm trip,than extr is more feasable

[Dimitri]

Wow, marsofold, nice price!

I couldn't get that cheap mimosa, I would need to buy it in the EU, so
the price is already much more higher. Equipment and chemicals are easy
to get for the extraction, but still I calculated quite a bit of money,
since I would start from nothing. And if you don't work it is pretty
easy to get that time together. But if you do...it is easier to buy
than to work a couple of days on that. Also I don't need THAT massive
amounts of DMT, I m pretty happy with a couple of trips in one year,
never more than half a g.

So I think extraction is not perfect for everyone.

[Eirias]

Swim has seen M. hostilis rootbark even cheaper than that, but not by much-- it's still a very good price.

Does anyone have a rough estimate of the alkaloid % content of
the "high quality inner root bark" that is being sold by various
vendors? How much higher is it than the standard rootbark?

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