Injecting - heroin - problems with coagulation/lungs/chest pain/femoral artery

[usagi]

I'm going to preface my post by saying that I have never posted in a forum before, and I'm sorry if I accidentally broke a rule or posted to the wrong place or something. I don't really know what I'm doing. But I did a search and couldn't find a previous post and I'm doing my best to abide by the rules and all that.
I have a friend of a friend of an acquaintance (etc.). I don't know her name, so I'll call her "Jessica". Jessica has apparently been using heroin for years, and no longer has any veins, except for her femoral veins. She is aware of the risks, but continues to use it, because she can not afford the cost of snorting and smoking and all that. It takes too much to even get her well. She has noticed that when she gets too much blood in a shot to the point where it's coagulating, that it hurts her throat when she does it. Kind of like after a really intense exercise, when it hurts to breathe. This morning she did one of these hits in her femoral, and she couldn't breathe. Her throat was burning and she was gasping for air. This lasted not long, and then she coughed a few times, and went back to normal. She freaked out about this all morning, and finally convinced herself, she was fine, until her boyfriend came home from work and asked her if she was okay, because she apparently had woken him up last night crying out in her sleep about chest pains. Although she has no recollection of this, it really scared her. She is a border line hypochondriac, and was worried that perhaps she had a pulmonary embolism. Jessica is an incredibly anxious person, who can no longer take the constant fear that she will die or become seriously ill. She does not like what she is doing to her body, which is why she is going to rehab, but she will not be able to get in for a while, because of insurance issues (which she is working on resolving). She will probably be able to get in within a month or two though. My question is, does anyone else know anybody who had a similar experience? Do they know what causes it? Those are my main questions. I guess it doesn't hurt to ask also for any tips on how to use the femoral artery in the safest way possible, or if anyone knows of any other hidden veins like that? She is scared out of her mind to the point of not being able to function. She just needs to hold out until she can get into rehab. Please help.

[mickey_bee]

i haven't heard of shooting (be it in the femoral or wherever), leading so pains in the throat, or breathing.... Sometimes if u've got wicked shit u can't really breathe, but that's just cos ur borderline oding...

if ur really worried about it, just see a doctor.....even in the us they're not gonna send you to jail for it! Having said that, if you're a borderline hypochondriac, or just generally anxious, maybe you shud first see what ur close friends think about it, provided they're not also borderline hypo-nutters. (no offence).

hope all's well

[Esmerelda]

Hey there,

As you're probably aware, there are a few conditions that IV users are more susceptible to, which cause chest pain and/or breathing difficulty.

The three I would be most worried about are:

Pulmonary embolism (as you mentioned) Symptoms:
acute breathlessness
chest pain
coughing up blood (but not always)

Pneumonia Symptoms:
cough
fever
breathlessness
chest pain
(not all symptoms need be present)

Endocarditis (infection in the heart) Symptoms:
Fever
Palpitations
Chest pain
Weight loss
Little heamorrages under fingernails etc
Among others
(not all symptoms need be present)

Hypochondriac or not, Jessica should take chest pain seriously. Please don't let her neglect herself because she is worried about confessing to drug use. I've noticed that if someone is 100% honest and open a lot of doctors can end up being quite understanding. And like mickey_bee says - she's not going to end up in trouble.

It is possible the chest pain is due to anxiety (although less likely if it's happening in her sleep) but it's not worth the risk - the above are life threatening conditions, which are relatively common in IV users, and are completely treatable.

Please please please don't let her risk her life because of the stigma of heroin use. It's not worth it. If the worse comes to the worst she gets a doctor with a shitty attitude and has to put up with being treated less than kindly. But so what - life is too important to worry about that. And the chances are if she hides nothing and speaking openly, she'll find someone who is kind to her.

Please post back with news - I'm going to be worrying about her .

Reputation Comments on this post:

Informative Post.

[usagi]

No offense taken... I'm a complete head case. The burning throat/trouble breathing thing is more related to injecting coagulated/solid blood. I know it's not an OD, cause my friend of a friend has ODed multiple times, and she was never even aware that her breathing was stopping. And I've just heard really scary things about the femoral vein, so that's why I brought that up too. No one I talked to has had a similar experience, so I'm confused to say the least. Surely other people have had trouble hitting and ended up having to inject a bunch of solidified blood... Thanks for the reply though. I probably should go see a doctor. Thanks for the input.

usagi added 1 Minutes and 1 Seconds later...

Oops. I still don't know how this forum works. That last reply was in response to Mickey.

usagi added 2 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

Wow, you people are really nice... I'm not used to encountering that when it comes to these kinds of topics.

[Ilsa]

yeah, my cat is unsure, but a pulmonary embolism makes sense. your friend is injecting clotted blood, which eventually gets stuck in the vein itself or, most likely, in the tiny veins of the lungs. the best thing my cat knows to do in this situation (since the friend is taking steps to get into treatment and appears to have little other recourse until then) is to get some sterile saline solution and start using that to mix up the shot (always using a new rig if possible). the salt seems to prevent/break up clotting. when my cat got a shot bloodied, clogging the needle, she found that adding a small amount of warm sterile saline to the blood shot and shaking vigorously to break up the clots, then transferring the shot to a fresh rig and then injecting worked well. it was tough to see it register, but at least it didn't clog. please be careful and i sincerely hope your friend gets the help she needs.

namaste.

[rhudson]

Originally Posted by usagi

No offense taken... I'm a complete head case. The burning throat/trouble breathing thing is more related to injecting coagulated/solid blood. I know it's not an OD, cause my friend of a friend has ODed multiple times, and she was never even aware that her breathing was stopping. And I've just heard really scary things about the femoral vein, so that's why I brought that up too. No one I talked to has had a similar experience, so I'm confused to say the least. Surely other people have had trouble hitting and ended up having to inject a bunch of solidified blood... Thanks for the reply though. I probably should go see a doctor. Thanks for the input.

usagi added 1 Minutes and 1 Seconds later...

Oops. I still don't know how this forum works. That last reply was in response to Mickey.

usagi added 2 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

Wow, you people are really nice... I'm not used to encountering that when it comes to these kinds of topics.

My cat said this:

"The femoral vein is NOT A SAFE INJECTION SIDE. PERIOD. You also mentioned safely using the femoral ARTERY which I hope was a typo because you should never, ever, ever inject into an artery (one of the reasons the femoral vein is so dangerous is that it is right next to the femoral artery). Doing so, especially the femoral artery, could easily kill you or result in an amputated limb.

Based on the symptoms 'Jessica' is describing I would say she is very likely experiencing some kind of circulatory problem. What problem I can not say and neither can anyone else here -- as informed as we may be, nobody can know without examining you. I personally believe that there is a reasonable probability her life is in serious dangerous. Injecting clotted blood especially into the femoral vein is EXTREMELY UNSAFE. Never do it again. If there is clotted blood in your shot, discard the shot completely. Re-filtering it is NOT safe, but it's better than nothing.

I would suggest she switch to intramuscular or subcutaneous injection, which carry their own risks but will probably not cause systemic damage to your circulatory system. Please do not attempt these methods before reading about how to do them properly. IM and SC injection are nearly as potent as IV but the effects take longer to come on. The risk of forming an infection or abcess is also greater, so be sure that she uses a NEW CLEAN NEEDLE (they can be ordered online discreetly, washes the injection site with soap or alcohol, uses clean sterile cotton, does not touch or lick the end of the needle before injection, washes her hands, and washes her cooker EVERY TIME. I'm guessing she re-uses points which is what fucked up her veins so bad in the first place.

What she is doing unsafe and will probably kill her if continued for a significant period of time. Get her help. I recommend buprenorphine (for detox, not maintenance) over rehab but anything is good.

Edit: Also if she is dumb enough to continue using the femoral vein please be sure she understands the warning signs of being in an artery. That is, if the plunger is ever forced back, or it draws bright red or frothy blood, or the injection is the least bit painful (arteries are much more painful to inject into than veins, this is a telltale sign), STOP IMMEDIATELY, withdrawal the syringe, apply pressure to the site, and get to a hospital if serious swelling or numbness develops. The lest liquid you inject the better the prognosis. It should be noted a painful injection is probably not an arterial injection but just a missed shot. Nevertheless, you should never proceed if there is any pain at all in an IV injection. If it hurts, something is wrong. Maybe you are in an artery."

rhudson added 10 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by usagi

I'm going to preface my post by saying that I have never posted in a forum before, and I'm sorry if I accidentally broke a rule or posted to the wrong place or something. I don't really know what I'm doing. But I did a search and couldn't find a previous post and I'm doing my best to abide by the rules and all that.
I have a friend of a friend of an acquaintance (etc.). I don't know her name, so I'll call her "Jessica". Jessica has apparently been using heroin for years, and no longer has any veins, except for her femoral veins. She is aware of the risks, but continues to use it, because she can not afford the cost of snorting and smoking and all that. It takes too much to even get her well. She has noticed that when she gets too much blood in a shot to the point where it's coagulating, that it hurts her throat when she does it. Kind of like after a really intense exercise, when it hurts to breathe. This morning she did one of these hits in her femoral, and she couldn't breathe. Her throat was burning and she was gasping for air. This lasted not long, and then she coughed a few times, and went back to normal. She freaked out about this all morning, and finally convinced herself, she was fine, until her boyfriend came home from work and asked her if she was okay, because she apparently had woken him up last night crying out in her sleep about chest pains. Although she has no recollection of this, it really scared her. She is a border line hypochondriac, and was worried that perhaps she had a pulmonary embolism. Jessica is an incredibly anxious person, who can no longer take the constant fear that she will die or become seriously ill. She does not like what she is doing to her body, which is why she is going to rehab, but she will not be able to get in for a while, because of insurance issues (which she is working on resolving). She will probably be able to get in within a month or two though. My question is, does anyone else know anybody who had a similar experience? Do they know what causes it? Those are my main questions. I guess it doesn't hurt to ask also for any tips on how to use the femoral artery in the safest way possible, or if anyone knows of any other hidden veins like that? She is scared out of her mind to the point of not being able to function. She just needs to hold out until she can get into rehab. Please help.

More from our feline friend:

"Also if she is really going to rehab she should REALLY start tapering her dose down now. A good way to do this is switch the method of administration to something less potent. It may seem gross, but rectal administration is actually nearly as efficient as IV and the rush is almost as immediate. Of course, you need to remove the needle from the syringe. Though I recommended IM or SC injection in the previous post, I actually think rectal admin. is ideal unless for some reason she just won't do it. Anyways, if she doesn't taper her dose now she will regret it in rehab. You can find guides for 'rectal administration' aka 'shafting' all over the web. Do not attempt before reading those."

[Richard_smoker]

wow. it DOES sound exactly like a pulmonary embolism... clotted blood shot directly into the lungs is a BAD idea!!!

This is a LETHAL COMBINATION!!! Please don't EVER do this again!

The reason this is happening is two-fold.
1. your using your femoral veins (VERY high chance of injection going straight to the heart)
2. clotted blood IS what causes death from pulmonary emboli!!

If you're still alive to read this reply, please get a grip on yourself...It's never too late to get help. Join a methadone clinic. Do SOMETHING!! It's not worth taking your own life! -DICK

[soma]

SWIM had a PE (pulmonary embolism) from heroin + others OD. It is possible. An MRA will diagnose this, but it is important for your friend to seek medical attention.