Suicide

[P!MPJU!C3]

In time span of 6 months 3 suicides occured among children in my county. The ages of the children were 13,14 and 16. Whats goin on?

Whats is ur opinion on suicide? What is going on according to u in my county?

NY State of Mind - P!MPJU!C3

[wann]

Over here in the Netherlands?



That's screwed up, didn't think there would be that many suicides (even
though the number might be low in comparison to other areas, I wouldn't
know) among children.



I don't think sucide is a good thing. Yes, you might look at it as a
way out, it's an easy way out (of course this is from my point of view
as an atheist, people who believe in afterlife or other things like
that may have a different idea about that), it's the easiest way out.
But I definitely think there are only a few occasions when suicide
should be accepted, and that's when it would be called euthanasia.



As I see it, there is ALWAYS a possibility for a better life.
Especially for children. Whether you've got trouble at home, you're
being bullied, you're depressed, or whatever the reason might be,
you've got time enough ahead of you. It's always possible to improve
life.



Of course there are some times that might be hard for people, perhaps
abuse or something like that. Even then it's possible to improve your
life. But maybe that's just me, I've always found it easy to just let
go of experiences that others would have found traumatizing.



I don't know, I may ramble about stuff every now and then but when it comes down to it, my view on life is very positive.





Hey Juice, were there any reasons stated at all for the suicides?







Anyway, this is a bit of a surprise to me. Sucks.

[daeron]

suicide is the last resort of a truly free man.if someone really doesnt want to live anymore you have to respect that.im a atheist too,and if i one day turn to suicide it wont be because of the spiritual/religious shit,it will be because the fact that i dont want to live anymore,simple as that.mind you i dont see that happening anytime soon





on the other hand kids that kill themselves cos of some dumb-he doensnt love me anymore-thing is just plain stupid.Edited by: daeron

[bubaloo]

A suicide attempt is a clear indication that something is gravely wrong in a person’s life. No matter the race or age of the person; how rich or poor they are, it is true that most people who commit suicide have a mental or emotional disorder. The most common underlying disorder is depression, 30% to 70% of suicide victims suffer from major depression or bipolar (manic-depressive) disorder.

[P!MPJU!C3]

No motivations stated, no possible reasons either. No personel problems, depression or bad situations they were in.

[daeron]

sometimes theres no obvious reason for depression,i have heard that in the plains and lowlands like the Neds people are more likely to suffer fromdepression,something about the neurochemistry of course...dunno why,i have spent 80% of the past 6 months in the neds and i fell just fine


and if one is intelligent enough he/she should realize that depression can be treated(medications are the last resort,IMHO anyway),suicide solves nothing

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by daeron

sometimes theres no obvious reason for depression,

Sometimes there are good reasons too, such as terminal illness with nothing but suffering ahead. Or maybe (MAYBE) a life that's become so entrenched in a certain pattern that all other options have vanished. I really don't know if that's possible or not, but suspect there are extreme case where it might be.

suicide solves nothing

Not to be insulting, but how do you know that exactly? Maybe it solves quite a few problems... you have to admit they probably aren't around anymore after death. Not to recommend it of course, just speaking philosophically.

[Woodman]

Suicide is often a selfish act, perpetrated with the
hope of plaguing grief upon surviving family
members.

That people in YOUR community would suffer an
epidemic of this nature tells me that you may have a
psychologically unhealthy environment for mental
development.

[P!MPJU!C3]

Originally Posted by Woodman

Suicide is often a selfish act, perpetrated with the
hope of plaguing grief upon surviving family
members.

Who would like to react to this?

Originally Posted by Woodman

That people in YOUR community would suffer an epidemic of this nature tells me that you may have a
psychologically unhealthy environment for mental
development.

perhaps u can tell me me what being psychologically unhealthy is like the fact being that u cant take a fucking brake and act normally towards me. I sent u a message askin if we couldnt put this childish bullshit behind us. Clearly u can not.

yours very sincerely and respectfully,

P!MPJU!C3Edited by: P!MPJU!C3

[Woodman]

Originally Posted by P!MPJU!C3

perhaps u can tell me me what being
psychologically unhealthy is like the fact being that u
cant take a fucking brake and act normally towards
me. I sent u a message askin if we couldnt put this
childish bullshit behind us. Clearly u can not.

yours very sincerely and respectfully,

P!MPJU!C3,

I've responded sincerely to your post and fail to see
what is "childish" about my response.

I can't say that I am surprised, though.
You seem to have a history of either taking personal
offense to my posts, or in some other way finding
issue with them.

Considering that I posted from a position of sincerity,
your follow-up was hardly a "respectful" one in
response, and to ascribe that attribute to yourself
(under the circumstances) would be anything but
sincere.

Now, as far as what specifically is psychologically
unhealthy in your environment, I wouldn't know, but if
people are offing themselves left and right, wouldn't
that be evidence enough to indicate to you that
SOMETHING in the mental mechanism isn't working
properly?

[Hyperreal]

Originally Posted by P!MPJU!C3

Who would like to react to this?

OK, I'll take that one:


Your attitude towards suicide lacks any modicum of compassion or understanding. When people kill themselves, it's because they see no other way out. There was a guy who drowned himself recently and in his suicide note he begged forgiveness and said that if he had seen some other way out of his situation, he would have taken it. Suicide is not an act of spite or selfishness, it is an act of desperation when life is unbearable. Also, people who kill themselves usually feel (rightly or wrongly) that everybody would be better off without them.

[drwoo]

Originally Posted by Woodman

That people in YOUR community would suffer an
epidemic of this nature tells me that you may have a
psychologically unhealthy environment for mental
development.

Perhaps its not the community that is the unhealthy enviroment, but the home. Something was wrong in the children's lives, and I would venture to guess its not their society. 3 suicides would hardly be an epidemic, atleast not in the US. I have no idea why you would even suggest that it was something wrong with their country. Every 2 hours 1 teenagers died from suicide. That could be an epidemic. Perhaps you should worry about the mental developement of childrenin your own country.


Suicide is usually a last resort I would venture to guess people in their lives missed some very important signs.Edited by: drwoo

[P!MPJU!C3]

Originally Posted by Woodman

That people in YOUR community would suffer an epidemic of this nature tells me that you may have a psychologically unhealthy environment for mental
development.

If there was no harm intended uve found a weird way of writing it down. Uve called me crazy in the past. One could derive the cause of this from the quote. This is what I did. Are u sincere?

P!MPJU!C3

[Alfa]

First, what does this have to do with drugs? 3 suicides in a country with 16 million does not seem as anenormous event to me, but this country is becoming harder, less social, which I do find an psychologically unhealthy environment for mentaldevelopment.

Originally Posted by P!MPJU!C3

perhaps u can tell me me what being psychologically unhealthy is like the fact being that u cant take a fucking brake and act normally towards me. I sent u a message askin if we couldnt put this childish bullshit behind us. Clearly u can not.
P!MPJU!C3

What did Woodman say that hits you personally? I can't see where you've got this idea from. Just like in past events only thing I see you reacting to Woodman. Nothing more. And as warned then: leave this be. No one is on your back.


As for the reason for suicide, this may be different person, by person. And as cold as it may be, suicide does certainly occur out of selfishness and spite.Edited by: Alfa

[dip]

nuttyness!

[boylizard]

For all the times the word 'normal' has been used, I don't think any of us could really define 'normal'.

[hippie_lain]

Yeah i agree that suicide is a very selfish act. I think suicide is caused by people wanting to escape or break the rules grounded in reality.I thinksuicidal people always see it as a last resort and when they dont feel like they have any power to live they think its the only answer. Most depressed people are very honest, senser, thoughtful people(unless its form ss) and think that life is better without them...but in the end suicide is a selfish act and often caused form spite. Wheter at the world, life or people.

[Muirner]

I will agree that suicide is selfish but also that it isnt intended selfishness (i think). I only say this because SWIM knows someone who was very depressed over some things and it was the easiest thing for him to get out. He ended up talking it out and not sweeting the thing that was causing the problems and moved on with his life.

I dont know why people always say "if they saw a different way out" That is why there are councelors, psychitrists (sp), and so on. Sometimes your brain dosent function 100% but no reason to hang it up. I have seen guys who just signed for 10years in jail. And there are many who sign for more, but u know what they still find a way to get through it. So what i'm saying is. Sure life is hard some of the time, but life wont be hard all of the time. If drugs are causing u to be depressed open your eyes and relize what u have to do.

Sucide hurts the family more then the person doing it. Sure they feel bad when they write the note, but after "doing the deed" they dont feel any pain, they dont greeve like the family.

Most people dont just up and kill themself's they talk to someone and tell them. They have a calling out before they do it. And if people just ignore them still then yea they think that life is over. Go to a councelor or something because they are paid to listen to you talk, give u advice, and help you out. There is always someone willing to talk and listen, so dont go hang it up.

I will say though where people get tough love they dont hang it up as often. At the ACI People would say they were gonna hang it up (hang from a sheet from the second teer). the response was "do it dont talk about it" and people didnt do it. if people will look ahead past the problem, once the problem is eliminated, then life is good again.

(sorry if i rambled)


Muirner

[daeron]

Originally Posted by Alfa

As for the reason for suicide, this may be different person, by person. And as cold as it may be, suicide does certainly occur out of selfishness and spite.

I thinkthat that statement is a bit judgmental.


Yes suicide is an act of selfishness but it is not all that black&white.It is your body it is your life.And again it is not at all that simple.If you have children,or someone depending on you should you end your life?


I guess what i want to say is that we cannot pass any judgment,mainly because there are very different reasons for suicide.Sometimes it is just plain stupid but sometimes there is really no way out.


Unlike most of you guys i have grown up in a very psychologically
unhealthy environment.And im not talking about the problems like-- youre bullied at school so you decide to buy a gun and kill everyone+yourself,or the problems like im depressed and he doesnt love me..Im talking about the type of problems you get when you get drafted and be sent to kill someone who was your brother yesterday,the problems where the MPs storm your home looking for your dad,and when they dont find him they decide hey will take you;Im talking about situations when the war is over,and your whole family is dead,you have absolutely nothing except war nightmares and H addiction....i can go on forever.Sometimes life can really suck.


Sometimes there is literally no way out,and when that person chooses to end his/hers life,you cant be so quick to judge his/hers decision.


PS i didnt want to sound pathetic or anything with that war thing,but thats the only real life example i know.I couldhave mentionedthe guys i know thathave committed suicidebecause they didnt want to go tojail or whatever,but heywere responsible for their own actions,whilst thethings like war or the tsunami come uninvited

[P!MPJU!C3]

Originally Posted by Alfa

First, what does this have to do with drugs?

nothing

Originally Posted by Alfa

3 suicides in a country with 16 million does not seem as an enormous event to me, but this country is becoming harder, less social, which I do find an psychologically unhealthy environment for mental development.

Alfa, if it were a country i wouldnt give a fuck. Its a
C O U N T (no R) Y. 10000 people live in it. 3 KIDS killed themselves. It is a problem.

[QUOTE=Alfa] What did Woodman say that hits you personally? I can't see where you've got this idea from. Just like in past events only thing I see

Originally Posted by Alfa

you reacting to Woodman. Nothing more. And as warned then: leave this be. No one is on your back.

Look up. Woodman isnt stupid. Reread his post. U might come up with the same thing I did. Or as I stated before Woodman is not as evil as I think he is and its just not a waterproof statement where i can derive my own conclusions from without seeing thing that arent there. Probably it is the past and I think Woodmans out to get me and im pulling the wrong conclusions from what he meant.

Originally Posted by Alfa

As for the reason for suicide, this may be different person, by person. And as cold as it may be, suicide does certainly occur out of selfishness and spite.

Im a very selfish person. Would this mean I would kill myself? The spite factor reminds me of the life of Brian(see it) with the Judaic peoples front suicide squad. Spite, selfishness? Are u segusting there is nothing wrong with u if u kill urself 4 spite? sure Spite is possible. But its gotta be deeper than that whereas normal people dont commit suicide out of spite or selfishness the fact being they will see it is pointless. Would it be ignorant of me to suggest that there is something wrong menthally with these people? A lil more nuance.

(I cant get this post to work)

P!MPJU!C3Edited by: P!MPJU!C3

[Alfa]

Daeron: yes, that is judgemental, but's that's out of the clinical psychology books, based on emperical data. But it doesn't mean more then; it happens.


Pimp: Logically; If some people commit suicide out of selfishness that does not mean that all selfish people commit suicide. No, I am not suggesting that there is nothing wrong if somebody kills himself out of spite. On the contrary. Althoug I do believe that suicide is a valid option in rare circumstances, I feel that in other circumstances including, doing so out of spite, there is a lot wrong. As many people , as many characters & minds, as many reasons to live or die by. IMHO.

[Inferno13]

I think you are all overlooking the blinding fact that many times,
especially in the cases of depression, dysthymia, and different bipolar
disorders, people can't help but feel the way they do due to a chemical
imbalance and/or negative environmental stimulus. They honestly
don't feel like living. It's not a matter of selfishness in this
case. It is the way they feel. In these cases it's
impossible to put yourself in their shoes because you can't understand
what they're feeling unless you have the disorder yourself. I
think that saying that these people (the people with these disorders)
are selfish is a close-minded DARE-oriented way of looking at the
subject.

[korky8097]

Personally i think it is plain out stupid. I mean these kids that
do it, well most of them, do not try much else to improve their
situation. I really wish seeing councilers and stuff wasnt taboo
and thought to be for crazy people in our society. If it were
more accepted some of these kids might actually seek help. Kids
find help from friends, which is good, but not the best
alternative. I remember back in middle school I had this chick
that would call me up and say, "oh im about to commit suicide, ive got
a mixture that would kill me in my hand and im gonna drink it".
This happened like 20 times easily, id always talk her out of it.
After about 10 times people didnt take her seriously about it, they
knew she wouldnt go through with it. I realized it was pretty
selfish subconciously, i mean she would say her mom has cancer so
everyone would feel sorry for her, and well turns out she doesnt.
It was just cries for attention, so that is the only experience ive had
with suicide. Shes still alive today and much happier. Kids
dont realize they feel alot of this because of their hormones racing
and brain going through changes, they dont see that in a few years
after they are done growing they will be happier. My 2 cents

[Inferno13]

That's right they don't. How could they? BTW what does a
girl that doesn't commit suicide have to do with kids that did?
The fact is that she didn't go through with it while the others decided
it was their only way out. None of us here are depressed enough
to commit suicide (obviously or we wouldn't be on this forum) but the
difference is these kids were. If they couldn't see any
alternative, who can blame them? You can't possibly put yourself
in their shoes and say that what they did was selfish or "plain out
stupid" for that matter. None of us have any idea what it would
feel like to be so depressed that we need to commit suicide.

[Hyperreal]

Nobody is going to commit suicide out of spite, because ending your own life is a decision about yourself and your own life, not somebody else's. People commit suicide because of their own reasons, not to get at someone else.


P!MPJU!C3, suicide is also a huge problem where I come from, and getting bigger. No one knows how to deal with the issue. I think the answer is to bring back MDMA therapy.