Opinions - Doing psychedelics to have a bad trip on purpose

[Revolver123]

My neon pink unicorn is not insane. He's had a lot of bad shit happen in his life. From an abusive father to social withdrawal and a lot of fear in his life, he feels he could greatly benefit from the psychotherapy it induces. In fact, my unicorn has had such a fucked up life that the chance of having a good trip on a psychedelic is far less than having a bad trip.

So my unicorn has made the decision to undergo a very painful experience. He has a lot of fear of social isolation, fear of pain and fear of dying (he's scared shitless of roller coasters even though he knows its almost impossible to get hurt on one). My unicorn is tired of being afraid and is going to use psychedelics to get over it.

However my Unicorn has no experience with psychedelics. Do you have any advice for him as to how to get the most out of what he wants from the experience? How to prevent himself from committing suicide while under the influence or causing physical harm to himself? How do handle the immense fear?

My unicorn feels he could come out a much much better horse if he trip properly.

Revolver123 added 2 Minutes and 55 Seconds later...

My unicorn also wonders if he has a bad trip if he will be able to go to work the next day. Or the day after.

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

Originally Posted by Revolver123

My neon pink unicorn is not insane.

If thats all you have left, i wouldn't risk loosing it, which is what doing psychedelics in your state might achieve.

Experimenting with psychedelics for the purpose of permanently altering your mindset is not likely to be problematic if you want to improve/change your existing mindset. To use them for the purpose of solving problems, however, is a different story and outside the context of psychotherapy it really is unadvisable. Especially with problems such as yours.

People might tell you that drugs like LSD can solve problems but IMHO that is hippie idealism. IMHO, it is more likely to go wrong than right, especially as you have no experience. People might tell you that you don't need professional advise, and that you can use LSD to free your mind/soul. While i concede that there is a possibility that it might work in the way you are expecting, i feel that you would be ill-advised to take psychedelics.

If you choose to, however, i would strongly advise someone be present who can make sure you do not harm yourself.

In terms of how to deal with the fear- I have experience of helping one person who had a horrifyingly bad trip and what generally helped was to think of nice things and try playing a waiting game with yourself untill the effects subside. NEVER allow thoughts such as "I'm going insane" to enter your head, as they will only increase your fear.

Again, i really advise you not to take psychedelics. you are likely to end up on the floor, screaming at your kitchen ceiling without even knowing why, and being all the more terrified for that.

Originally Posted by Revolver123

.My unicorn also wonders if he has a bad trip if he will be able to go to work the next day. Or the day after.

It is possible that you would be mentally damaged for months. Do not underestimate bad trips, they will reduce you to the mindset of a child who wants to run to their parents, wishing they had never put their hand in the flame.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good, responsible advice
	good information regarding LSD and the set and setting one needs to be in

[Revolver123]

My Unicorn must elaborate. He is not in a constant state of depression and he is a pretty social animal these days. He has friends and he has a level of satisfaction with his life. However, my unicorn feels he will never be the animal he can be because of his haunted past.

Experimenting with psychedelics for the purpose of permanently altering your mindset is not likely to be problematic if you want to improve/change your existing mindset. To use them for the purpose of solving problems, however, is a different story and outside the context of psychotherapy it really is unadvisable. Especially with problems such as yours.

My unicorn doesn't want to alter his mindset, he likes his current mindset and he just wants to improve on it. My unicorn has read things by therapists that have said when someone confronts their underlying issues under a bad trip and work to solve them, the effects last forever.

My unicorn should add that he's tripped before while under the influence of BZP + TFMPP + Cannabis. He wasn't insane but he was experience a distorted version of reality. He had a bad trip on it because he felt disconnected from reality and that he was going to lose conciousness and die which resulted in massive anxiety and panic attacks. That experience haunts my unicorn but most likely because he resisted it rather than going with it.

However, he was sane enough to realize he was under the influence of drugs, that he was on a bad trip and that it would eventually wear off. That greatly helped my unicorn keep a level mind and if my unicorn can maintain that mindset under psychedelics, he feels he could benefit from their effects.

[Jatelka]

I have to say, having seen your monkey's other post on Setting: Mushrooms or LSd and her "terror" of a bad trip, and having now read this thread about her background issues I am going to revise my previous (unposted) response

No-one here can tell your monkey what to do, or whether they will be OK

Set/Setting cannot be emphasised enough when considering psychedelics. An abusive father, social withdrawal and "terror" of a bad trip do not tick any of those boxes.

While painful/cathartic experiences can be useful/lifechanging, I (personally) don't think that painful experiences should be looked for, for this express reason. Although meditation/Introspection are an incredibly useful tool when preparing for an adventure, unless one has some experience, then it can be extremely difficult to see the wood from the trees, and such an experience could be damaging: Unless one is in the company of a qualified therapist who can work through the pain with you?

On the information provided: No, My flamingo doesn't think that LSD could be recommended

[Songcycle67]

SWIM says:

Low doses of psychedelics can be useful for seeing the beauty of the world around you: the mundane tends to become quite miraculous on such substances. I don't want to sound trite here, but I have to say that, from reading the first post in this thread, it sounds to me as if SWIY may be wanting to use psychedelics the way that some abused kids use razorblades for self-mutilation, if that makes sense. There is a deepset desire in many people from abusive backgrounds to induce self torture, or at the very least expect the worst in everything.

If this is the case and you think that SWIY will dwell on the negative and *try* to enduce a bad trip then I think psychedelics are a bad choice. Psychedelics can be eye opening when one is given a bad trip, but many times (at a proper dose and in a proper setting--something which probably couldn't be said about your previous endeavor with psychedelics) bad trips aren't needed to help the person. Usually first-time experiences are so enlightening and helpful because LSD tends to make everything seem very beautiful and precious.

From personal experience, they helped my fear of the world around me by showing me that everything is made up of the same stuff---infinite space disguised as reality. Realizations like that can help with certain fears, but oft times a bad trip isn't needed to have such realizations.

So, in closing, if SWIY's goal is to have a bad trip and *make* themselves scared so that they can "experience, confront, and overcome the greatest fear possible" or whatever then they're going about it the wrong way and have some deep-seated issues that need to be dealt with before/if psychedelics are ever entered into the equation. Part of "going with the flow" is having no expectations--good *or* bad. Very rarely do psychedelic revelations come the way that we want them to and, besides, having a bad trip isn't necessarily conducive to overcoming fear of anything--no matter how in control the individual is or how scary the visions/experience are. I've seen people navigate their way through bad trips, seeming fine the entire time--facing their demons head on, and come out scared as shit with a few weeks/months of bed-ridden self-analysis ahead of them. If anything it'll probably set SWIY back in that way. People in your condition are also hyper-sensitive to potential psychosis.

So, no, LSD is not recommended for this particular type of therapy.

[Revolver123]

No that isn't the case at all. Ever hear of cognitive behavioral therapy? It's doing what you're afraid of on purpose to prove to your subconcious that the fear is irrational. Swim has tried it many times and it does work. Swim has become a much more social, outgoing and confident purpose due to cognitive behavioral therapy. At many times it is frightening and painful but if one pushes his or herself through it, results will be rewarding.

Swim has some underlying issues that he wants to solve by cognitive behavioral therapy and the best way he feels to bring these issues up from under the surface is psychedelics. Many psychologists felt the same way and have said that benefits can be hand from confronting these issues rather than supressing them or avoiding them.

That is Swim's attraction to psychedelics. He has no reason to want self harm and definitely doesn't enjoy it. Remember, he hates rollar coasters.

[aerozeppelin123]

Originally Posted by Revolver123

No that isn't the case at all. Ever hear of cognitive behavioral therapy? It's doing what you're afraid of on purpose to prove to your subconcious that the fear is irrational. Swim has tried it many times and it does work. Swim has become a much more social, outgoing and confident purpose due to cognitive behavioral therapy. At many times it is frightening and painful but if one pushes his or herself through it, results will be rewarding.

Swim has some underlying issues that he wants to solve by cognitive behavioral therapy and the best way he feels to bring these issues up from under the surface is psychedelics. Many psychologists felt the same way and have said that benefits can be hand from confronting these issues rather than supressing them or avoiding them.

That is Swim's attraction to psychedelics. He has no reason to want self harm and definitely doesn't enjoy it. Remember, he hates rollar coasters.

It sounds a little bit to me like swiy has asked for advice hoping for people to say yeah go for it but instead they advised against it, but swiy didn't hear what he wanted to hear and wants to try psychedelics no matter what.

Swim is not saying definitely do or don't as swim has only limited experience with these drugs and in fairly low doses most of the time so cannot give an expert opinion. However after a recent LSD trip swim has understood just how powerful a drug it is and now realises why everyone stresses set and setting so much - it really does take issues in your life that you are unhappy about and magnifies them, so if you are in a difficult mindset it really can start getting very intense, and not necessarily in a constructive way - it may just be purely pessimistic and negative, merely exaggerating your inadequacies in your mind without giving you the drive to change or improve yourself.

Having said that many people do report difficult experiences that they benefit from in the long term in terms of seeing things from a useful new perspective. So basically it is up to swiy. Swim would say if you do choose to go ahead, start with low doses in a comfortable environment with friends you trust. Don't underestimate how powerful these drugs can be! Good luck, swim hopes swiy makes the right choice

[AtomicMushRoom]

my psychedelic pet hedgehodge would just point out few things:

for treatment purpose swiy should have either experienced person to guide him trough trip, so he is able to find what he needs in psychedelic maze of is uncousness rather then get lost in it,

Or start with small, so he wont easilly enter state of mind he wouldnt handle,

Or use different substance.. ie Amanita muscaria, becouse its effect is more clear mind oriented ..

But one more thing, even after such strong psych. experience ones mind often tends to return slowly back into its previous state.. so such a trip can be a start point, but wont make all the work..

[Toma]

Quoting SWIM:
"
I would also advise you to postpone your psychedelic experience until you feel ready. In my experience psychs are good for looking into yourself in order to recognize and face your fears, and gain understanding and resolve to work on them in real life. But if you already know your problems and expect drugs to solve them for you, you are in for a very painful experience.
I think you could get the most benefits by starting to change your life in the direction you desire, not necessarily anything radical, but just making the effort to take the first steps. And when you feel you've made a breakthrough and you are satisfied with yourself, you can take a light psychedelic trip, and the knowledge that you are moving your life in the right direction will give you strength to face your fears without succumbing to terror or hopelessness.
You will face your fears, but you will do so from the other side of the bridge, knowing that you already are gaining control over them and that it is in your power to put them behind you for good. And the satisfaction that you have already started on the path to change by your own efforts will give you a solid base to stand on against your fears and if the experience becomes too powerful you will be able to remind yourself that you are strong enough to accept it and to use it in order to consolidate that change.
You should trip not expecting the experience to change you, but in order to strengthen and consolidate the change you are making yourself.

People so far have advised you not to trip in this frame of mind, but if you decide to go ahead, or if you wait until you are ready, here are some tips you should keep in mind:

- have someone experienced and trusted to guide you. Ideally it should be a therapist, but in any case it should be someone with psychedelic experience and most importantly someone you trust totally and who understands you.

-choose a light psychedelic for the first experiences. For me, a low dose of LSD is nothing but gentle and clear goodness, although it can be brutal in higher doses. A third or half a blotter should do for the first time, to get a feeling for it (be careful as many LSD blotters are fake and the substitutes can be far worse). If you want something lighter you could start with mescaline cacti or 2C-B. These tend to be euphoric and grounded but sacrifice some of the depth and clarity of LSD. I would advise against mushrooms as they tend to be anxiogenic for many people and have a very confusing headspace.

-start with a low dose and increase very gradually. If you are getting signs that it's becoming difficult for you to handle don't press forward. Take a break from tripping and resume when you are comfortable again, without increasing the dose. Psychedelics do not need to be shock therapy. Ground-breaking experiences can be positive but they are for stable, happy people with a good grip on life, and even for them they can be dangerous. You can have easy to assimilate realizations on gentle experiences at low doses.

-make sure that you have no problems or obligations bearing down on you in the time you set aside for the trip. You should be free to step outside the flow of your normal life, get a bird's eye view of it and then have the time to put yourself together again before you step back into it. You should have one or two days free after the trip, ideally more.

-most of all, if you come to some realizations during your trip, hold on to them, keep them in your mind until they become a part of you, and act on them. If you look away, when you look back they will seem less and less real. The only time you can act on them is now. Psychedelic revelations have a way of fading away if you do not actively live them afterwards.

Psychedelics do not do anything for you, they just open your eyes. It is up to you to gather the courage to look and accept what you see, and it is only up to you to remember what you saw and transpose it into your life after you come down from the trip. Psychedelic experiences are all about accepting; the fear you may have comes from trying to look away from what your mind shows you. And the best way to be prepared to accept is to acknowledge your problems in real life, come to peace with them and do your best towards solving them. If you do so, you will be able to look into your soul on psychedelics and have little to fear.
"

[Songcycle67]

I have heard of cognitive behavioral therapy and I believe that facing your fears is a good idea, but I don't believe that magnifying these fears and adding new ones into the equation (as bad trips often bring up extremely sub-conscious fears that are unknown to the conscious mind) is quite the best way to go about it.

SWIY's fear isn't of LSD, it's of life, and thusly SWIM believes that issues bothering SWIY in waking life should be met and faced in that realm and LSD should be saved for when they're ready to fight the more hidden, subconscious fears.

It just sounds to SWIM like SWIY has a great deal left to chew on their plate already that could be dealt with in normal consciousness and bringing psychedelics into the mix would only cause confusion, more problems, and perhaps psychosis.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good advice re: facing problems in real life

[Third/Eye]

What if SWIY were to create a set/setting that would be comfortable to retreat to if the bad trip were to become unbearable?

Don't know if it would work *shrug*

[...Mickey...]

Love psychedelics... but never underetimate them. I underestimated the potency of LSD until the day I had a bad trip... Believe me, I felt like I was literally going insane. Yes, I was on many other drugs as well, but I think topping it off with acid, and especially when other shit was going through my mind as well, caused me to actually have shades of true paranoid schizoprenia for a while... Never, ever do psychedelics to have a bad trip on purpose. That is the stupidest thing ever... Psychedelics are exquisite... They are to be used for positive aspects and to obtain true mental and inner peace of mind not the opposite. So if you're in a bad mindset whre youmight think too much about things, you should wait for things to cooldown a bit before going on a trip on any psychedelics but then again, if you are tripping with people close to you, who you trust and are in a comfortable place/environment/setting, all should be well... And if you haven't done psychedlic substances before, go easy on how much your consuming for starters...! =)

...Mekayl... added 2 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

I'm so sorry I forgot to use SWIM...