Recovery Technique Poll

[Spare Chaynge]

Just thought we needed a poll. how did swiy get clean and sober.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good idea for a thread, the answers on the poll should prove to be very interesting.
	great idea

[Dickon]

Second time today, I've written a post and lost it! Each time trying to add a link to another thread and erasing the one I'm writing. What was I saying? Oh yes, I was asking how self-will and an individual programme differed. I voted for the latter because I'm not "going it alone". I suppose the "programmatic" elements of my life involve doing one-to-one sessions every couple of weeks, going to relapse prevention groups, starting a mini college-course about drugs, getting massages, Zen meditation (I found a group where I live) and 5 rhythms dancing. I don't do NA/AA at the moment, but I am a strong advocate of total abstinence, at least initially.

I think you should change self-will to will-power, because self-will has a negative connotation. I don't know if this is my previous 12-step indoctrination, or whether the usage is more universal, but the expression "running on self-will" is used to describe someone who is not connected to the world, and is off doing irrational obsessive things in an uncentred and ungrounded way. In my own semantics, self-will conflicts with "true will", and I 'd say it is the latter that one needs. The phrase "true will" I encountered in Crowley [Diary of a Drug Fiend; cf: "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"], and it chimes in with something I read from Christian mysticism [The Cloud of Unknowing as I remember]. Just a thought! I also hate the word "programme", as it makes me think of a sausage factory. The way I think of words, it's a wonder I'm ever understood!

When I was withdrawing, my biggest help was DF! The bored or interested could visit my thread: Screaming in the night air. Help emotional and technical for methadone withdrawal - Drugs Forum!

Being clean is fun

Dickon

[chillinwill]

Red Rock caught clean through a combination of self-will and an individual program. He checked individual program though because he certainly didn't get clean from any traditional program such as NA/AA and he wouldn't attribute it to all being self-will. He created his own way to stay away from heroin through this forum and posting a lot. He also set limits on himself such as not driving for a couple of months, not having more than $10 in his wallet, working out daily, making sure his parents are supervising him closely, etc. By creating his own program, he was able to find a way that worked for him that might not work for someone else.

[~lostgurl~]

I have changed it to willpower. Dickon I think the difference between "individual program" and "willpower" Is that with willpower you just decide to quit and do it - for whatever reason - the bad outweighs the good, sick of being sick or something has changed in your life that has given you a reason to want to live sober. With an individual program I think a person has actually taken steps to aid recovery, be it counselling, finding new hobbies, distraction techniques, eating right - all done as a conscious decision to aid recovery.

I used to believe willpower alone was not enough - till I found something more to live for.

[infekt]

Swim voted individual program. He does not like 12 step or having a sponsor. He does have a group therapy session every monday called the early recovery group, and he feels that the cognitive behavioral therapy helps greatly. Swim also finds Yoga and meditation to be very helpful. When swim does his Yoga and meditation properly he does not believe he is powerless like the 12 step program states; He feels he has a great amount of willpower and self control, as well as the ability to think with extreme clarity. Swim believes these elements are what is really progressing swim into his recovery.

So I guess it is a mix between the individual program and willpower, so it all has to do with will. However if swim is not thinking clearly, he'll will the wrong things. Both of those poll options have to work together for swim.

[drug-bot]

i think there should be an option for substitution therapy/maintaince(ie- methadone, subutex/suboxone, vivotrol(naltrexone), disulfiram,ect). for many addicts/alcoholics recovery doesnt mean the simplistic view of haveing ones body 'chemical' free but rather improving health, and their previous living conditions. i mean if someone is clean but still turning tricks for their income, has much improved? or someone who hasnt touched anything in years but is a miserabe fuck and no one likes him, has being substance free done any real good for him?
theirs a mirade of ways an indivdual can recover and everything on the list is valid ways people can achieve their goals, i just think substituton therapy is a way many people start with and some need for the rest of their lives and if that person can achieve peace of mind and become a productive happy member of society it shouldnt be looked at as something separate from recovery.

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by drug-bot

i think there should be an option for substitution therapy/maintaince(ie- methadone, subutex/suboxone, vivotrol(naltrexone), disulfiram,ect). for many addicts/alcoholics recovery doesnt mean the simplistic view of haveing ones body 'chemical' free but rather improving health, and their previous living conditions. i mean if someone is clean but still turning tricks for their income, has much improved? or someone who hasnt touched anything in years but is a miserabe fuck and no one likes him, has being substance free done any real good for him?

This is a very good point in that medicine has progressed so much that it can be used in conjunction with various other techniques. This is actually what Red Rock is on is the combination of Vivitrol and an individual program.

[Spare Chaynge]

Swim thinks we should discuss in detail the vote why and swiy choose it.

He also understands that many would of voted for a combination of two the the choices.

Swim voted for will power because he feels as if he got tired of doing drugs and after he detoxed he realized that he would be way happier if he just stayed off drugs.

Even though he does things that he thinks is beneficial to his recovery, hydroponic gardening and seeing live shows; These are simply things that he enjoys. So he did not vote for an idividual program because he does things simply for the fun of them not because he thinks they will be beneficial for his recovery.

Now sometimes he will justify spending a bit of extra money on something because it will make him happy and help him stay sober. But this is just an excuse to ultimately do what he wants.

[chillinwill]

Well Red Rock is on his own individual program but is also on substitution (naltrexone) and wishes a vote could be checked for each one? Or is he just allowed on have one vote? If just one vote, then keep it as individual program since he is following and doing his own thing.

[~lostgurl~]

I cannot change the poll to multiple choice.

[gilligan_911]

willpower! swim has been through rehab, gone months in both NA/AA, had a sponsor, tried to change friends, ignored some less desirable people all together and none of it really helped. it was swims own determination that got him through the times when he needed that high. the boredom of life without using, the shock/frightening experience of having to call 911 as he watched his mom seizure uncontrollably and then be whisked away in an ambulance, the depression that normally would have been instantly alleviated as soon as he took that hit/snort/shot/pop.

but it was the simple fact that swim didnt want to be a slave and NEED to use. swim wants to be able to just use recreationaly and not have his life controlled by drugs.

[H Bomber]

Swim isn't really a fan of 12 step stuff, but he must admit that his longest clean time (6 months) probably wouldn't of happened without AA and NA.

[rokman nash]

My friend Dave's first go around he did on his own while posting in the R&A forum.He would call it an individual plan, certainly not willpower.Although for the most part that's what he used.Dave made it just over 4 months the first time.Then he relapsed for about a month.

Since then he is completely drug free over a month now, but used a very quick Suboxone taper. The thought of acute physical WDs drove him to try sub, and it worked wonders.

The biggest problem Dave feels going this route is that he didn't feel the pain the second time(he actually couldn't bear the thought of going through that again).

Good Thoughts

[trixion]

Will power is the key to keep one clean. Self disciplined is developed once the power of the will is there to repel all negetive forces.

All programs or helps by other can only assist and improved chances on recovery. Monitoring on SWIY can be done 24hrs till the day SWIY recovered? There will be times where SWIY is left alone and its only take 1s to pop the little devil into your system.

After recovering, are SWIY able to stop the tempation set by the waving hands of the devil? SWIY know how to gain access to the devil as you have walk thru that dark forest before. It is onli a matter of time for the weak minded to be in the same old shoe that he wishes to remove.

[ex-junkie]

willpower is the secret weapon when it comes to NOT buying drugs and continuing to live life on the good merry go round. however, a quick buprenorphine taper, clonidine and promethazine helped swim to get rid of the sickness.

[cra$h]

Swim sober means a suicide happend. He tried, and really isn't all that heavily addicted. Will power alone would take superhuman strength. But if swim surrounded himself around people who are trying to reach a common goal, even one person he's loved he could do it. But right now? No. too much bullshit and it seems like everyone that says hey lets get clean togeather ends up fucking swim with a jackhammer dildo, leaving swim craving for an even more potent fix.

[missparkles]

Individual treatment, tailored to suit swim was the best way forward for her. But as has been said it took willpower to decide to stop, treatment to get the ideas and awareness into her head to enable her to stop. It took Methadone to give her time to work on the awareness. And she used a liberal sprinkling of AA and NA meetings to get through some tough times when there was no one else there for her.
So for swim it has to be a combination of most of the above that got her to where she is at the moment. Sorry if that's so complicated, but it took a little of most of them, even prison.