reversing tolerance of benzos like Ketamine for opiate´s tolerance

[Ezy Ryder]

There´s anything capable of reversing tolerance of benzos like Ketamine for opiate´s tolerance? The intention is to ease the discontinuation.

[malsat]

I don't understand what you mean by 'ease the discontinuation'.

This might sound strange, but possibly... different benzos. Different types of benzos act on different GABA-A receptor subtypes (composed of alpha, beta and gamma subunits, I think) - get addicted to one benzo and the receptor subtype it acts on is down-regulated but other subtypes are up-regulated. I believe I read this somewhere, honestly I'm not too sure so you'll need to find the info yourself. Google GABA-A receptor subtypes, or else go on bluelight and ask around, someone there has a PDF with the various subtypes.

Sorry I'm not making much sense, haven't slept in a couple of days. :/

Reputation Comments on this post:

no referencing other forums

[Ilsa]

the OP is a bit confusing....is swiy asking if ketamine is a benzo? (it's an nmda receptor antagonist, doesn't bind the benzodiazepine binding site on GABA receptors) or is swiy asking if ketamine can reverse tolerance to benzo's, so they will be more effective in easing the anxiety associated with opiate withdrawal?

[Dickon]

Illsa,

The OP seems perfectly decryptable. As so many of you are American I shall rephrase it as an SAT question:

? is to Benzodiazepines as Ketamine is to Opiates.

Or calling this relationship R, As in R(Ketamine,Opiates), where R(x,y) means x reverses tolerance to y, the question asked is the truth of

(Ex)R(x,Benzodiazepines)

where (Ex) is the existential quantifier, "there exists an x".

This statement, turned into a question and put into plain English becomes:

"Is there anything that reverses the tolerance of benzos?"

Ezy Rider,

As you want to ease discontinuation, and all information I've ever seen suggests switching to a long acting benzo, e.g. Diazepam, and tapering I think anything used in this way would be experimental at best. There is on PubMed, which perhaps someone with access to could add to the file archive, a paper entitled "Feasibility of reversing benzodiazepine tolerance with flumazenil." That said flumazenil is a benzodiazepine antagonist (i.e. it reverses the effects of benzos and would probably precipitate withdrawal) so is not likely to be of any use for the purpose at hand.

There is a lot of info on DF about tapering of benzos.

All the best

Dickon

[pinksox]

Use of Flumazenil can cause seizures in benzo-dependent persons--even life threatening status epilepticus(which is basically one continous non-stopping seizure--people don't breathe while seizing).

SWIM would not recommend using Flumazenil on a benzo-dependent person by anyone other than a licensed medical professional trained to do so safely and then only in an atmosphere where advanced care(IV, medications, advanced airway support) is already available. SWIM has only seen Flumazenil in IV form and doesn't believe it comes in other forms.

As far as SWIM knows, SwiDickon is correct in the best way to lower tolerance/quit is by tapering doses.

[Ilsa]

thanks, dickon. i suppose i'm a bit dense.

so now that the benzo part of the question is clarified, i'd like to address another concern...using benzo's to come off of opiates when one is already using them may not be all that helpful, and may well put one in the position to become dependent on the benzo's. my cat isprescribed clonazepam, and takes the lowest possible dosage per day that allows her to function sans panic attacks. when she has come off of opiates in the past, they have been helpful, but they do warrant careful self-monitoring. the depression and anxiety that accompany opiate withdrawal can be a powerful draw to "numb out" using something else so my cat has always used the benzo's with much caution.