Opinions - All Privileges at 18-- your thoughts?

[youdontknow]

well except for gamble and weed, thats how it is in pretty much the entire untied states, as far as i know. And you can drive at 15 with a permit and a licensed driver in the car, and then completely on your own at 16

[SupeR]

Originally Posted by Cathay

>ability to purchase and consume alcohol
>purchase cigarettes
>purchase or own up to 1 ounce of cannabis
>enlist in the military
>gamble
>purchase lottery tickets
>drive

Do you agree with this? Is this fair?

All accept the purchase and own up to 1 ounce of cannabis is legal in Australia

SupeR added 0 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...

at 18*

[El Calico Loco]

And yet, Australia is not in flames? Curious...


ECL

[benzedrine]

also in australia you can drive and enlist in the military at 17. start driving at 16 but only with a supervising driver i.e. someone with a full license.

[dr. swim]

The problem with giving people full rights at any age is that age itself is not a guarantee of intelligence or responsible behavior. People should be required to be taught how to safely and responsibly do something before they are allowed to do it, like drinking for example. If people were taught to control they're drinking before being allowed to drink there'd be a lot less alcohol related driving accidents.

[Matt The Funk]

Originally Posted by dr. swim

The problem with giving people full rights at any age is that age itself is not a guarantee of intelligence or responsible behavior. People should be required to be taught how to safely and responsibly do something before they are allowed to do it, like drinking for example. If people were taught to control they're drinking before being allowed to drink there'd be a lot less alcohol related driving accidents.

Right. I think there should be educational classes one must take before consuming psychoactive substances, including prescription medication. The age should start at 16 IMO with some slight regulations, but none once they reach 18. Same goes for a thorough educational session for military, gambling, license (already there), etc...
I think that kind of style would allow more freedom, and keep irresponsible users from "being given their birth rights" and abusing them in a horrible maner for society. If one if caught abusing their rights (giving to a minor, driving under the influence, etc) they could get their using license suspended for a certain amount of time, and if they continue to disregard the law I think short jail time (really short) and being stripped of the "license" would be appropriate. To be honest though I don't believe this kind of system would work currently, at least not in the USA.

[shivakiva2112]

Alright, but those kids are being groomed for top spots, the average enlisted man holds a GED or a high school diploma from some bum fuck school in the South or Midwest, or an inner-city school with zero funds.

Not to mention there aren't more than 4 or 5 thousand military academy graduates each year, entering a force over 1 million strong.

When I said 'only' I made a possibly too strong statement, obviously there are some extremely intelligent, highly capable persons going into the U.S. Military, I myself am descended from a paternal line of officers, Navy, Army, and Air Force. But most of my experiences, biased as they are, with current members of the military (enlisted men) is that they are able-bodied young men with little education, money, or job prospects, and the military gives them a paycheck and easy-to-follow, difficult to fuck up orders.

[crackcityrocker]

fuck. i didnt even read the damn post before i voted. i thought this was for all drugs including all the other things. i voted no, but i should have voted yes. *sigh*

a fuck ton of kids are already doing these things (alcohol, pot), better not to make them criminals for doing it, even though im more mature now than i was at 18 i did ok, etc. etc.

[Riverhead]

In my country that would be making the law more strict than it already is. No, leave them kids alone.

[dadrone]

SWIM voted NO because he feels there is a significant amount maturity gained between the ages of 18-21. SWIM would vote for 21 as the age for *everything*.

Yes, people are allowed to go to war at 18. And SWIM agrees that anybody who goes to war should have access to whatever they want - troops are the heroes. But anyways... SWIM's vote is for age 21.

[shivakiva2112]

I believe you're confusing slavery with indentured service...slave labor is free. Soldiers, even drafted soldiers, are paid pretty well. Part of compulsory service is not having a choice...we don't have a choice about paying taxes or working shitty 9-5 jobs either, and people bitch about those plenty but we all put up with it anyways.

Compulsory military service is conceptually no different from taxes, except that labor stands in place of money.

[El Calico Loco]

I don't want to argue about semantics. The thing I oppose is forcing people to march and follow orders at gunpoint, regardless of what you call it.

I agree that taxes are not much different - most taxes, anyway. The income tax, in particular, is a subtle form of slavery. It ought to be called by its rightful name - the labor tax. I have no problem with taxes on land and natural resources, however, as these are not the product of anyone's labor.

Working a shitty job doesn't even compare. You do have a choice about that. You may not have good options to choose from, but no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to work there. Being forced by the threat of poverty is not the same as being forced by the threat of violence. The person paying you is not the cause of your suffering. It's the whole backwards, broken system.


ECL

[shivakiva2112]

Originally Posted by El Calico Loco

The thing I oppose is forcing people to march and follow orders at gunpoint, regardless of what you call it.

ECL

I can't say that I am a proponent of this either, would you feel better about it if I pointed out that my idea includes compulsory community service as an alternative to military service for those who were idealogically opposed or unwilling for any reason?

[El Calico Loco]

No. I am opposed to compulsory service of any kind. It saddens me that so many readily accept the idea that human beings should be mere pawns of the state, or that it is acceptable to threaten someone with violence (which is, at its root, the implied threat that supports any law) simply because they don't want to be forced into a work brigade. It's the same moral sense that animates my opposition to the war on drugs - the opposition to violence towards those who have harmed no one.

We are sheep domesticated by wolves.


ECL

[Grabnar]

But some of us are wolves in the pasture and we are hungry ^_^

[curious2]

I see this discussion as being just too arbitrary. The law must not be black and white, there are always exceptions either side.

I realise that drinking is a big responsibility, and there may be some people in some ways who are not mature enough to handle that, well into their 20s. Heck, there many ADULTS who can't handle that responsibility. So of you're talking about it that way, hell why not raise the drinking age to 40?

There needs to be less of a focus of a blanket arbitrary age and more of a focus on education all round, about drinking responsibly. Teenagers say aged 14,15,16 can have a great time drinking also, providing they are severely monitored, and also perhaps have support from a more responsible adult who shows them how to drink safely.

So, all in all, and having said all that, no I do NOT believe the arbitrary age of 18, is the solution here!

[sandoz1943]

Dont see how if someone is old enough to carry an assault rifle and take a human life they aren't old enough to smoke, drink, or gamble. I believe 18 is a good age for all except millitary duty as there is no appropriate age for murder.

[Mesaja]

Originally Posted by Cathay

I was talking with someone this weekend who suggested that all privileges should be allowed upon reaching one's eighteenth birthday. By priviliges, she meant:

>ability to purchase and consume alcohol
>purchase cigarettes
>purchase or own up to 1 ounce of cannabis
>enlist in the military
>gamble
>purchase lottery tickets
>drive

Do you agree with this? Is this fair?

In SWIM country you get all privileges when you turn 18.
Exept for buying cannabis,because its illegal.
Come to think of it,you dont even have to be 18 to:
-purchase cigarettes
-purchase lottery tickets
-gamble
This is done even by 10 year old kids.

[El Calico Loco]

*gasp* The poor children! Your country must be in flames!!

Sorry. More seriously: are there huge problems associated with tween smoking and gambling in Macedonia?


ECL

[Mesaja]

More seriously: are there huge problems associated with tween smoking and gambling in Macedonia?

Well,there is,but no one here considers it as a problem,more as a normal social behaviour.
There is some measures now,about the ciggaretes,but nothing serious,since the kids are still starting to smoke at the age of 12-14.
About the gambling(sports betting,thats gambling too,right)...well,thats not a problem here-it a fuckin addiction.
Almost everyone does it,from 7 to 77,and there are no restrictions.
Its a nice country,really,everyone has his vice.

[Kelveren]

First off I find substance use in a public, non-designated area to be disruptive and offensive. I'm speaking mainly of tobacco smokers and consumption of alcohol. I'm not a particular fan of having people wandering around drunk or high. I don't care what people do in private, with their friends, or in places like bars, but not everyone is comfortable having sad drunks cry on their shoulder or angry drunks scream at them. (I've had both of those...during the early afternoon). On the other hand if substances are going to be legal (any of them) ages do have to be regulated because they do mess with brain chemistry.

So what about this?
15: Soft alcohol
16 1/2: Driving
18: Tobacco, marijuana, alcohol, other plant-based drugs that don't require more than perhaps extraction (peyote, etc), armed service, draft, etc.
21: All other drugs with access monitored and assistance given to people who become addicted and want to stop.

Just a thought.

[Capita]

I was all for the drinking age being 18 when I was young now I see exactly why the drinking age is 21 now that im older. When ere you go to a club that allows underage drinking you can almost guarantee that these 18 year olds will do nothing but try to fight and act uncontrollable. When ever I go to a actual legit 21 and up bar it is a lot more of a relaxed atmosphere and people actually control themselves.