Oral use - making of "patu"

[aroidgrower]

SWIM was wondering if there has been experimentation using coca paste as mentioned in the "introduction and use of coca" section here. SWIM did a google search to learn more but came up empty.

[Benga]

there are references to a similar process in the "Revue Ciba", a swiss anthropological publication. online, you can read an article called ""The Use of Psychoactive Plants Among the Hupda-Maku".
"Patu", "Padu" or "ipadu" is the name given to coca and its derived products by amazonian tribes close or behind the Brasilian border.

it's not so much a paste as ground coca powder premixed with an alkali. It works very well, but is very messy in the mouth ( more than leaves) and quite astringent for the mouth's mucous lining.
the principle is simple : gind the leaves or use emptied teabag powder, eventually roast them (not sure what this step does), then add the alkali ( in swim's case, sodium bicarbonate). Suck the powder in a tube, then into the mouth.

also read http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12208

b

[aroidgrower]

Thank you again Benga for your insight and expertise.

This sounds like a very messy way for one to prepare and use coca leaves.
I assume the Hupda people grind the leaf so finely because it is the only way to be able to carry on a conversation while the powder is in their mouth.

Has Swiy ever tried this method? Would it be more or less effective in utilizing the alkaloids in the leaf?

[Benga]

yes, swim's tried a couple of times, ( but didn't toast the leaves) it actually works very well, as the leaves spread out all over the mouth, and the absorption surface is wider.
it's also quite simple since one just has to pop the powder in the mouth.
however it's true that it's very messy, the mouth is just coated with leave paste, the teeth full of particules, not very sexy. talking is indeed either as there's no coca ball, just coca powder all over the mouth.
swim gave up because he found the bare powder quite irritating, but this is probably because he didn't grind it hard enough.
using teabag grade leaf powder is a little painful, despite the numbing effect, and will make the mouth lining sore. but with real leaf powder it would probably be ok.

really, the leaf toasting aspect is strange. i think it's probably to help with the grinding, so that the leaves are really dry- as i don't think it would change something in the leaves. but it would be interesting to try with toasted leaves, as an experiment

b

[aroidgrower]

When reading the articles about Patu They mentioned the flavor. I suspect that the toasting of the leaves would bring out the flavor of that particular variety.

I know when cooking the flavors come out better if I sauté the ingredients first.

Just a hunch.

aroidgrower added 212 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

After thinking about what SWIY said Benga about the irritation caused by the powder being too course SWIM decided to use a coffee grinder and make multiple passes at the finest setting. SWIM then sifted this powder through a medium mesh paint strainer. Swim didn't notice any irritation from this preparation.

SWIM was surprised at how fast it begins to work compared to a quid.

[Potter]

Nobody uses a brand of coca that comes in fine powder and even after much practice, is barely able to talk with a quid in the mouth. Remember, if you swallow, you'll loose the effects. Probably best to chew before meeting with friends, or fill their quid holes up so they can't talk either.

And nobody will second staying the hell away from "edible lime" and other alkali's besides sodium bicarb. Nobody burned their mouth out for a week and a half using that once, every surface hurt for some time from that. Nobody knew it was to strong, but had no idea how bad, probably because the topical numbing of the coca masked the true damage until the next day. If you do insist on trying it out, keep something acidic around to wash your mouth out when your done, or in pain. Probably best to do it once your done chewing, even if you aren't sore, prevent the remaining alkali from continuing to burrow into your flesh.

[aroidgrower]

Thanks for nobodies advice Potter.

swim has kept with using sodium bicarb. he finds the quicker onset and more powerful numbing effect interesting with powder over tea bag quids but the downside is the mouth full of saliva infused with leaf dust.

He doesn't see how Hupda-Maku people could possibly carry on a conversation with it in their mouth. They must be constantly swallowing the saliva.

[Potter]

Is patu a social thing? Most of the references to coca culture seems to be people chewing it while working or traveling long distances by foot.

Nobody is a paan chewer, a quid of palm nuts and pepper leaves from S.E. Asia. If you swallow the juice, it can give ya a pretty harsh stomach ache. Can't imagine sitting around with the hopeful fiance's family, with a wad half the size of a golf ball bathed in a mouthful of bright red spit, trying to propose a marriage. There's got to be some skill we're missing here with this quid stuff.

Oh and watch swallowing the bicarb, that stuff will give you some AWFUL shits, like the kind where you thing you've got gas when you should really be running for the bathroom... Swallow even a 1/2 teaspoon of the stuff and you'll know it the next day, don't take chances, get to the bathroom especially if you are in public.

[aroidgrower]

SWIM's experience with coca powder chewing has been a mouth full of saliva that does lead to a little swallowing of saliva. It is hard to believe that because of the excessive saliva encountered when swim uses coca in this way that the Hupda-Maku people could easily carry on a long conversation without swallowing the saliva generated. Maybe it is just a reaction that swim has and is unique to him.

Below is a link at the beginning of this thread that Benga shared.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12208

aroidgrower added 120 Minutes and 56 Seconds later...

As stated in the document "Cocain in blood of coca chewers" -

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...id=104&id=1706

"the prepared powder is taken in tablespoonful doses. It is held between cheek and the gum for a few minutes until it absorbs sefficient qauntity of saliva to become pasty in consistency. It is then worked with the tongue into the recesses of the cheeks and gums, where it is allowed to remain for one to several hours. By the time most of the juices are sucked from the quid, very little coca powder remains, and the greater part is swallowed gradually. Indians working in the forest may take coca powder numerous times during a day. It is often used after the evening meal during discussions and story telling."

This would explain how they are able to carry on a conversation while using the powder.

I wonder if its use in this way after a meal also helps aid in digestion.