Experiences - The Philosophy of DMT

[Eschaton]

Overheard on the bus -

I have been experimenting with DMT since May of 2007 (tryptamines in general since December 05) and have experienced merging with the Godhead several times. With each successive experience I have been able to understand more of the symbolism and archetypes. It has taken me nearly 2 years of reading into the subjects of tryptamine hallucinogens, cosmic consciousness, and eastern religions to understand what exactly is happening to my consciousness during my experiences.

What I have learned is the following;

The world as it is, right now, is so intrinsically perfect and beautiful in every way that it is impossible to fathom. (Eastern Religions- Alan Watts)

There is no need for amelioration of any kind because...

Free will is a paradox, Good and Evil are a moot point in the face of the eternal recurrence of all forms. (Nietszche) The Dionysian "Yes to life"

We live the same life, over and over again.

We die to remember what we live to forget; life is a dream that death wakes us from.

(The cyclical/oscillatory nature of the universe)

There is no "point" to existence per se, due to the duality of forms, true is false, 0=1.

The psychedelic experience cries out to help the earth, but also at the same time imparts intuition of the necessity of mans ignorance in regards to mass evolutionary consciousness. The dualistic nature of reality is simply a metaphor for this ultimate paradox of being.

The stalemate of philosophical debate and the psychedelic experience leads me to believe that the realization of the eternal recurrence is the final "end point" of self-realization.

All we can do as conscious entities is to live in accordance to our will, which is Love; the desire of boundary dissolution. We spend our entire lives building boundaries, just so we may overcome them, and through overcoming these boundaries we may reach Gnosis.

Enlightenment is the realization of our nature as God.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very good philosophies

[lewk]

I like it.

Pretty deep stuff

[psyche]

Pretty good realizations. Couldn't agree more. DMT shows that deepest truth about life can be seen from death. The division of experience to life & death is an illusion, as we are already dead if we look at the current moment only. Then we become continous and equal with all processes in universe, inluding everything deemed inanimate.

[TMM]

Originally Posted by Eschaton

There is no "point" to existence per se, due to the duality of forms, true is false, 0=1.

My dragon experienced something similar on mushrooms, although he expressed it as 1=2. It lends itself to an interesting state of being in the psychedelic headspace.

EDIT: Also, I just noticed this, but be sure to read the forum rules and don't self incriminate.

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

In my opinion, psychedelics can do one of three things to a person:

1) completely and utterly change their view of the world/life
2) completely and utterly reinforce their view of the world/life
3) do nothing significant.

For me it was number 2.

In my opinion, those is the sense in which psychedelics affect philosophical thought. Your collection of quotes are interesting, "deep" i might go so far as to agree with, even, but they do not really outline a philosophy

Originally Posted by Eschaton

The world as it is, right now, is so intrinsically perfect and beautiful in every way that it is impossible to fathom. (Eastern Religions- Alan Watts)

There is no "point" to existence per se

Subjective statements masquerading as objective..

Originally Posted by Eschaton

Free will is a paradox, Good and Evil are a moot point in the face of the eternal recurrence of all forms. (Nietszche) The Dionysian "Yes to life"

As much as i love Nietzsche, his eternal return concept was pure pseudoscience... (e.g claiming time and space was infinite...)

Originally Posted by Eschaton

Enlightenment is the realization of our nature as God.

Call me picky, but i have difficulty accepting continental philosophy as "true philosophy", most of it, and what you say, belongs in something like theoretical psychology. I would say that is just my opinion... but I really don't believe that it is ^^ - I'm sure you understand

[psyche]

Subjective statements masquerading as objective..

Isn't a philosophy term referring to something pretty much based on subjective realizations about reality? Nobody is talking about objective here. Yet I beleive the post contains a lot of truth.

Also to remember, when discussing the deepest truths, they can't be falsified because they couldn't exist in other forms. So in that sense they aren't objective, even if they make sense.

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

Originally Posted by psyche

Isn't a philosophy term referring to something pretty much based on subjective realizations about reality?

If that is your definition of philosophy- then that is your definition..

Originally Posted by psyche

Nobody is talking about objective here.

Any statement which is worded "X is ___" instead of "I think/believe X is ___" is an objective claim.

Originally Posted by psyche

Also to remember, when discussing the deepest truths, they can't be falsified because they couldn't exist in other forms. So in that sense they aren't objective, even if they make sense.

"Making sense" is a subjective action which is only applicable to us because only we "make sense" of anything. You are, i suspect, linking things like "the deepest truths, they can't be falsified because they couldn't exist in other forms" which seems to be an objective statement, with subjective evaluations such as "So in that sense they aren't objective, even if they make sense" which is always a problem.

Of course, we probably just have different ideas of what truth is.

[psyche]

Any statement which is worded "X is ___" instead of "I think/believe X is ___" is an objective claim.

Taking 'world is a beautiful place' as objective claim is nonsense. If there are adjectives in the statement as a central part of it's "claim", it's not wholly objective.

We have different ideas of truth. I think the truth can be composed of objective statement and subjective evaluations. Feelings are part of reality even though they are not always rational, they affect the reality every bit as much if not more than rational aspects of human mind.

I know these things can be turned over and over again. But hey, that's reality. Every answer gained to a question raises a whole bunch of other questions.

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

Originally Posted by psyche

Taking 'world is a beautiful place' as objective claim is nonsense. If there are adjectives in the statement as a central part of it's "claim", it's not wholly objective.

Agreed, but it is important to bear in mind anyway, otherwise it is easy to get confused: statements such as "The world as it is, right now, is so intrinsically perfect and beautiful in every way that it is impossible to fathom" seem to link the objective state of the world with our subjective understanding of it. Talking about impossibilities and limitations of subjective experience is the result of not understanding the subjective nature of subjectivity; talking about impossibilities and limitations of subjectivity is essentially talking about subjectivity from an objective perspective; illogical...

Originally Posted by psyche

We have different ideas of truth. I think the truth can be composed of objective statement and subjective evaluations. Feelings are part of reality even though they are not always rational, they affect the reality every bit as much if not more than rational aspects of human mind.

The existence of feelings/emotions is an objective fact: they exist in reality. Attaching value systems to them such as rationality/irrationality; good/bad and so on is, indeed, doing what you said: Taking objective reality and subjecting it to subjective evaluation.

Such acts are intrinsic to human life. The fact is, however, that when we perform such an act we are doing something objective: The only relevance subjective metaphysics such as rationality/irrationality has to objective truth is the fact that we do indeed believe it.

This may seem obvious but, similarly to what i said before, you need to keep it in mind to avoid confusion. I will sum up/summarise:

The rationality/irrationality dichotomy is constituted by subjective evaluations and is objectively separate and distinct from the objective existence of the feelings/emotions to which the dichotomy refers.

Feelings, therefore, affect reality because they are part of reality; no different, in the sense of fundamental existence, to anything else.

Originally Posted by psyche

Every answer gained to a question raises a whole bunch of other questions.

Indeed ! unless you are prepared to understand and even take pleasure in this fact philosophy will likely cause you much ego discomfort.

[psyche]

The rationality/irrationality dichotomy is constituted by subjective evaluations and is objectively separate and distinct from the objective existence of the feelings/emotions to which the dichotomy refers

I don't know why it should be. I mean, most people, if they are on a low mood because of something, they can (maybe) rationally think why is it and why the hell it is too insignificant to be sad for, but are still unable to start being happy. That all changes if you can forget yourself and lose yourself in transpersonal/cosmic thinking, then the circle closes. This is what you basically meant, isn't it? Ofcourse it can be distinct if you mean the concepts that are needed to ponder about these things, but they wouldn't exist without feelings, so I think they don't exist by themselves.

I'm starting to wonder what is the point of all this discussion, even though ofcourse there is no point, other than the interest to see how the words would describe these things and how different interpretations interplay making up new ones.

Life is a big question to live in. Consciousness is the pattern in change, and change in pattern. Hope that didn't confuse with my confused post.

[Panacee]

Originally Posted by Eschaton

I have been experimenting with DMT since May of 2007 (tryptamines in general since December 05) and have experienced merging with the Godhead several times.

How do you know you merged with Godhead? What is your reference?
There are many higher states of consciousness, which you also might have experienced.
I really doubt the highest possible state, which is only reached by a handful of mystics after a lifelong struggle, can be reached in less then two years incidentely taking DMT (no offence, I just want to help you in your philosophy).

Originally Posted by Eschaton

The world as it is, right now, is so intrinsically perfect and beautiful in every way that it is impossible to fathom. (Eastern Religions- Alan Watts)

Eastern religions don't care so much about THIS world...it is certainly not perfect according to all religions I know. According to the Buddha, THIS life is suffering, which can be overcome...

[enquirewithin]

=Eastern religions don't care so much about THIS world...it is certainly not perfect according to all religions I know. According to the Buddha, THIS life is suffering, which can be overcome...

Pychedelics are certainly philosophical, but I am dubious about Buddhism. Surely telling people that life is suffering and that rewards come in a later incarnation from being obedient (ie, servile) in this life, is a great way of controlling the masses. Much as I enjoy reading Alan Watts, he was a bit a rogue-- he died an alcoholic.

[Panacee]

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

Pychedelics are certainly philosophical, but I am dubious about Buddhism. Surely telling people that life is suffering and that rewards come in a later incarnation from being obedient (ie, servile) in this life, is a great way of controlling the masses.

I don´t think the Buddha´s aim was controlling people. All religions have this message, that this material existence is a lower form of existence. Coincidentally, my dog says the same stuff when he is on mushrooms, very peculiar. This message CAN be misused for controlling people, but that does not mean it was meant this way, it is just a description of a religious experience. He who misuses it did not experience it, for sure. And those who let themselves be controlled by those persons do not grasp the higher truth anyway.

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

Much as I enjoy reading Alan Watts, he was a bit a rogue-- he died an alcoholic.

I don´t think Alan Watts is the best portal to Eastern Philosophy. There are better works out there.

Panacee added 4 Minutes and 24 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by psychoshaman

Life is just an experiment to experience emotion..?

An experiment by who? And what do they want to prove with this experiment?
And my ratio? Did this evolve just to assist my emotions?

[psychoshaman]

Originally Posted by Panacee

I don´t think the Buddha´s aim was controlling people. All religions have this message, that this material existence is a lower form of existence. Coincidentally, my dog says the same stuff when he is on mushrooms, very peculiar. This message CAN be misused for controlling people, but that does not mean it was meant this way, it is just a description of a religious experience. He who misuses it did not experience it, for sure. And those who let themselves be controlled by those persons do not grasp the higher truth anyway.


I don´t think Alan Watts is the best portal to Eastern Philosophy. There are better works out there.

Panacee added 4 Minutes and 24 Seconds later...


An experiment by who? And what do they want to prove with this experiment?
And my ratio? Did this evolve just to assist my emotions?

the aliens of course hehe, monkey doesn't really know it was something that popped into tha monkeys head at the time... i'll get back to ya on that...

[Richi]

Originally Posted by Panacee

How do you know you merged with Godhead? What is your reference?
There are many higher states of consciousness, which you also might have experienced.

And what is your frame of reference?

[Dark_the_7th]

I like this!

All I can say is that it's wonderful to see SWIY taking their experiences and building a comprehensible logic from them. In all honesty, I'm getting really sick of the people who trip out and start talking about aliens and other bullshit.

But this? This was cool, interesting and accessible.

[nate81]

Originally Posted by Eschaton

All we can do as conscious entities is to live in accordance to our will, which is Love; the desire of boundary dissolution. We spend our entire lives building boundaries, just so we may overcome them, and through overcoming these boundaries we may reach Gnosis.

If the rest of this philosophy is right however, then all good and evil, as earthly beings see it, are expressions of the Godly will and Love may be utterly irrelevant.

[psychoshaman]

Life is just an experiment to experience emotion..?

[nate81]

I like: reality is God playing hide and go seek with Himself.

[psychoshaman]

Originally Posted by nate81

I like: reality is God playing hide and go seek with Himself.

makes sense to da munkey... and it would not surprise da munkey if it is all that simple

psychoshaman added 18 Minutes and 23 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by psychoshaman

the aliens of course hehe, monkey doesn't really know it was something that popped into tha monkeys head at the time... i'll get back to ya on that...

Just something lab munkey found the other day on the Buddha --Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 1, chap 3 - text 24... just found that interesting is all

psychoshaman added 10 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by psychoshaman

makes sense to da munkey... and it would not surprise da munkey if it is all that simple

psychoshaman added 18 Minutes and 23 Seconds later...



Just something lab munkey found the other day on the Buddha --Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 1, chap 3 - text 24... just found that interesting is all

lab munkey wishes he could experience DMT by the way, but no-one here seems to knows about it on this big fat island or seems to be interested or has any...