TEK - getting rid of denatonium benzoate. how?

[iranian]

hi guys.
alchohol is illigal in my country. so if some one wants to drink any alchoholic drink he/she should use smuggled alchoholic drinks (which is nt safe, because smugglers some times add methanol to drinks) or they should use home made ones (wich is hard to get hands on and low quality).
in past years some people used 70% and 95% alchohol from pharmacies to get drunk but government in recent years forced factories to add 10 ppm denatonium benzoate(the bitterest chemical on planet) to their product's I wonder if any one has any Idea about getting rid of that.
I don't think distilation work because even 1 ppm of this shit taste like SHIT!!!
any other ways?

[yaba]

Swim not doesn't know how to but have been told in prison that alcohol can be made from apple juice or potatoes or alcohol free beer and even shoe polish (hooch)

What about buying bit by bit a home distillation kit ? Or make as much as possible swiy self and buy the rest on eb*y ?
Use the search engine there are some treads on home made alcohol.

[iranian]

thanks for reply yaba.
SWIM already know how to make home made alcohol from many thing including everything you said (exept shoe polish. realy???) but the he cant use these for some reasons. first it will take to much time second SWIM needs a place for all of those which is not available for him and most of all if SWIM get busted by the cops he will have 70 slashes in the main street of his city and directly go to prison for 6 months to 3 years and cant go to univercity. thats bad, dont you agree?
in here they took alcohol crime VERRY Serious.
he is looking for a fast way to get his hands on alcohol.
and unfortunetly I don't think that he can consume from eb*y. because these E shops don't deliver to Iran.
and the other problem about this (which I mentioned before) is that even 1ppm of this stuff cant be drinked because of bitterness.

SWIM has some thing in his mind he don't know that it's correct or not. he just saw a bottel in school lab wich was labeled "crystlied ethanol". he just wonder if he can convert this ethanol soulotion (containing denatonium benzoate) to crystal form and put it in capsules?
can this method help him?
please help SWIM. he needs it fast.

[yaba]

SWIM has some thing in his mind he don't know that it's correct or not. he just saw a bottel in school lab wich was labeled "crystlied ethanol". he just wonder if he can convert this ethanol soulotion (containing denatonium benzoate) to crystal form and put it in capsules?
can this method help him?
please help SWIM. he needs it fast.[/quote] Sorry swim wouldn't know but am sure someone here will help swiy... And yes in UK prisons they use shoe polish to make a drink called hooch (spelling) When swim was in prison in The Netherlands they were making alcohol from apple juice, but swim was only there for 28 days and it wasn't ready yet..

Hope swiy will find a way... Be-careful don't think Iranian prisons are nice...

[ovadose]

Originally Posted by iranian

thanks for reply yaba.
SWIM already know how to make home made alcohol from many thing including everything you said (exept shoe polish. realy???) but the he cant use these for some reasons. first it will take to much time second SWIM needs a place for all of those which is not available for him and most of all if SWIM get busted by the cops he will have 70 slashes in the main street of his city and directly go to prison for 6 months to 3 years and cant go to univercity. thats bad, dont you agree?
in here they took alcohol crime VERRY Serious.
he is looking for a fast way to get his hands on alcohol.
and unfortunetly I don't think that he can consume from eb*y. because these E shops don't deliver to Iran.
and the other problem about this (which I mentioned before) is that even 1ppm of this stuff cant be drinked because of bitterness.

SWIM has some thing in his mind he don't know that it's correct or not. he just saw a bottel in school lab wich was labeled "crystlied ethanol". he just wonder if he can convert this ethanol soulotion (containing denatonium benzoate) to crystal form and put it in capsules?
can this method help him?
please help SWIM. he needs it fast.

Damn...thats harsh. SWIY should probably just move. Fuck that country.

[Potter]

NO!

Did a bunch of searching and the only thing to come up was "crystallized alcohol oxidase", an enzyme that degrades alcohol. This will not get a person intoxicated.

So why the urgency? Is there some pressing need to be drunk?

Ever considered fermenting your own? If you have a glass gallon jug, that's really all the space you need, won't smell much, and there's a number of recent threads including one started by a member living in Saudi Arabia. It won't be liquor, that's for sure, but with a few experiments, it's not hard to make something that is passable. Of course in UAE, the authorities turn a blind eye to small scale home brewing.

But Dear Lord, don't use shoe polish. Sorry yaba, going to have to say someone was pulling a fast one on you, that stuff is pretty toxic,

naphtha, lanolin, turpentine, Carnauba wax, gum arabic, ethylene glycol, carbon black.

Guess there's some rumors of people drinking shoe polish during prohibition, remember some people drink heat fuel too. This stuff is bad, it will fuck you into the hospital if you are lucky.


Denatonium


Lidocaine

As for the bittering stuff, if you could cleave off the benzene and remove that, you'd have alcohol and lidocaine, which could be separated by distillation. Of course drinking a lot of lidocaine may kill you too, not sure but it seems like a bad idea, of course the benzene you need to remove would also be bad. Might be worth bringing this to the Chemistry section.

Reputation Comments on this post:

because of mentioning something that helped me from poiseningg

[iranian]

verry good information potter. but the crystallized ethanol had a formula like this C2H5OH.n H2O I don't know what these are called in English. maybe "water coverd"? I'll be happy if any one can tell me what it's called.
any way I know it exist (see with my own eyes) but I can't find it on net just like you. wierd no?
I like to discuss this on chem section. I think it is more relevent.

[Potter]

Weird that neither of these come up in much context. What you listed certainly isn't an enzyme, but isn't exactly documented either. Found a bunch of German and Vietnamese stuff involving it, but can't find anything naming it.

What you list should be ethanol, but ethanol doesn't exist as a solid at room temperture, which leads nobody to think there might be some other chemical involved. Rumors of a "dry booze" in Amsterdam circulated a few years ago and the possibility that it was alcohol in an absorbent sugar were raised.

Can you get some sort of safety sheet for the bottle? Something that has it's purity, health effects, treatment, other chems in it? Here we refer to this as the MSDS Material Safety Data Sheet and by law all "chemicals" (pure or not), used in industry or commercial applications, need to have one on file at the location they are stored in.

[davestate]

Originally Posted by Potter

Weird that neither of these come up in much context. What you listed certainly isn't an enzyme, but isn't exactly documented either. Found a bunch of German and Vietnamese stuff involving it, but can't find anything naming it.

What you list should be ethanol, but ethanol doesn't exist as a solid at room temperture, which leads nobody to think there might be some other chemical involved. Rumors of a "dry booze" in Amsterdam circulated a few years ago and the possibility that it was alcohol in an absorbent sugar were raised.

Can you get some sort of safety sheet for the bottle? Something that has it's purity, health effects, treatment, other chems in it? Here we refer to this as the MSDS Material Safety Data Sheet and by law all "chemicals" (pure or not), used in industry or commercial applications, need to have one on file at the location they are stored in.

Sounds like Glacial acetic acid TBH

[RoboCodeine7610]

I found this written on a piece of paper in my mailbox:

Ever considered fermenting your own? If you have a glass gallon jug, that's really all the space you need, won't smell much, and there's a number of recent threads including one started by a member living in Saudi Arabia.

That'd be me, and I feel your pain.Home brewing didn't really work out for me even though potter helped me out.It always tasted disgusting and it never got me drunk.Plus in Saudi Arabia the only type of yeast avaliable is baker's yieast which as I found out the hard way, makes any home-brew taste like SHIT.I'm guessing it's the same in Iran so don't waste your time with home-brewing.

And potter, we need more people like you over here, to teach people how to home-brew hahaha.

[Greenport]

It's impossible to keep people from drinking ethanol...if you think the war on drugs is an utter failure because people have found out how to make the drugs themselves, just look how remarkably simple ethanol's structure is!!

The easiest way swiM's buddy Al Capone can think of is the basification of the ethyl ester of an acid. This would require finding one in the first place, but Al's sure they're around Many aromatic (and edible) plants contain ethyl esters, and there are some commercialized sources of them as well, although the ethyl group is a bit expensive usually compared to others.

The below is an example using ethyl acetate (the ethyl ester of acetic acid). Any ester containing an ethyl group though is fair-game:

AcOEt + NaOH -> AcONa + EtOH

The end byproducts here are sodium acetate and ethanol.

Al suspects one could also distill the tainted ethanol to separate it from the denatonium benzoate, since that compound's melting/boiling point is pretty high, although because of the extreme bitterness of this compound even at low amounts, one would want to redistill many many times and even still it may still have that bitter taste. Also, the ethanol may have other toxic impurities such as methanol and thus may actually be poisonous. It's better to find an ethyl ester and basify it.

One may also obtain ethanol via reduction of acetic acid, but that is a hard thing to do because acids don't reduce easily - such a process would require strong reducing agents such as LAH, which in the end would probably not be worth it.

Just look around for that ethyl group on chems/plants you can obtain though. If there is ethyl in it, and it's relatively nontoxic, it may be a good source of ethanol if you can do some basic chemistry

[RoboCodeine7610]

That sounds pretty easy, but could you post a detailed procedure on how to do it? You know, like "basification of the ethyl ester of an acid for dummies" ahahhaa

[Hollow Hippie]

Just ferment, must chemicals used to denaturate (sp?) ethanol have similar boiling points to ethanol that you would just have them collected with the ethanol. And denatonium benzoate is so damn potent that to remove it entirely would be pretty damn hard. Fermentation is as easy as getting something sugary (any sugar basically) and yeasts. You can get a max of 15% without distillation. Better then risking death from denats.

[RoboCodeine7610]

Better then risking death from denats.

I thought it was non-toxic but just bitter....

[Hollow Hippie]

Originally Posted by RoboCodeine7610

I thought it was non-toxic but just bitter....

That is indeed true, plus it is so bitter one could not physically ingest enough to bring about a toxic effect.

Although anything can be toxic, remember that "The dose makes the poison."