Do RC Suppliers really send more?

[punkanini]

In a previous thread, somebody mentioned that some RC Suppliers send more than you order. Does anybody have any evidence of that? It's a horrible thought... pretty dangerous.

[radiometer]

Shipments of 1g quantities SWIM has received have varied from 1g exactly, to
1.1g. SWIM's never gotten less than what SWIM ordered.

It's only dangerous for people taking their chances dosing without
weighing. There is an underlying assumption, when ordering research
chemicals, that you are a researcher, and thus own the appropriate
equipment, such as a precision scale, to handle the chemicals safely and
responsibly.

[Softrat]

I have read numerous reports andposts on many web sites of people claiming that it was very common for such companies to send extra material, sometimes as much as 300 mg extra.


It must be kept in mind however that legally such people were not to be consuming such chemicals and also had claimed to be qualified to handle the materials in a safe manner via the various online contracts they agreed to in making such purchases.


As such any person who violated such contracts did so entirely at their own risk and responsiblility. Anyone who messed around with the so called research chemicals without access to appropraite measuring tools was simply taking some real risks of overdose.

[gn2osis]

Yes, sometimes more is sent. Usually not a lot more, but it's
been known to happen. Maybe the supplier is making up for a late
shipment, or just trying win repeat business, etc.

With scales like the Gempro (+/- 2 mg) available in the $100 range,
there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER for a person interested in
RC's not to own a scale. If you can afford RC's, you can afford a
scale, period. (end of lecture)

The downside of a scale like the Gempro is that it won't work that well
with very small amounts (less than 20 mg or so) due to error of
measurement, but it's completely fine to use it for 50 mg or more and
then use the water method.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good advice here re. suitable scales for weighing research chemicals.

[Dimitri]

Why it should be a problem, punkanini</span>? Just tell them to not send you more. Normally more would be the prefered thing, or am I the only one who wonders about that?

[punkanini]

It's not a problem for me, but there are a lot of people who simply dump the drug into a container full of vodka and shake. Imagine taking a 40 mg dose instead of a 10 mg one... I'd be frightened.

[nanobrain]

yes, sometimes you get less, sometimes you get more, get a friggin scale.

here's a tip for those that have a hard time weighing less than ~10 mg w/scales such as the Gempro: add something easily removed that is more than ~50 mg to the weighing dish/plate, then tare the scale. set to go. a tiny piece of (wadded up) paper works well.

[psy-marshal]

Not for me, damn it! Some people have all the luck!!! I always got exactly what I ordered to the friggin milligram! (Actually, once it was less, but that's it.)

[gn2osis]

Originally Posted by nanobrain

yes, sometimes you get less, sometimes you get more, get a friggin scale.

here's a tip for those that have a hard time weighing less than ~10
mg w/scales such as the Gempro: add something easily removed that is
more than ~50 mg to the weighing dish/plate, then tare the scale. set
to go. a tiny piece of (wadded up) paper works well.

That will make it easier to get a stable reading, but you'll still be
at +/- 2 mg. If you're fine with the possibility of getting 6 mg
or 2 mg instead of the 4 mg you desire, then that's OK. If not,
gotta be the water method.

[raven3davis]

Getting more than you paid for couldbe a problem if you are trying to dilute the powder and then dose it.

[allyourbase]

volume fractioning of a known amount can be more efficient than a scale. some materials are hygroscopic. an inexperienced person with a fancy scaleis more a threat to him/her self than a knowledgable person with an ID and a mirror. KNOW your source. remember, there are other variables, such as purity, to consider.Edited by: allyourbase

[gn2osis]

Originally Posted by allyourbase

volume fractioning of a known amount can be
more efficient than a scale. some materials are hygroscopic. an
inexperienced person with a fancy scaleis more a threat to
him/her self than a knowledgable person with an ID and a mirror. KNOW
your source. remember, there are other variables, such as purity, to
consider.

What do you mean by "volume fractioning"? The water method, or
eyeballing out a line of powder and dividing it? Water method is
fine, but eyeballing is very unreliable.

eople may feel the need to eyeball in a pinch, but it's a really bad
idea unless you're working with material that you don't mind taking a
lot more of than you think you've eyeballed. Not too many RC's
fall into that category, so please avoid eyeballing.


Anyway, as you say, you have to start with a known amount. And for that you do need a scale.

[radiometer]

I think anyone who can't figure out how to use a Tanita 1210 properly is
very likely doomed for disaster anyway, and should stick to more
forgiving drugs like mushrooms. It's not rocket science.Edited by: radiometer

[yajw]

The lab has received, on multiple occasions, larger than ordered
quantities. The most interesting was when the order was actually double
what was requested. Makes me wonder if some of the suppliers were using
these cheap scales that appear to be in favor.



Use ebay/lab-x/ or local university auctions to get a decent, accurate
scale. Worse case is that you have it recalibrated. Nothing like a
0.0001g scale for $200.

[Dimitri]

Nothing like a
0.0001g scale for $200.

Did I misunderstand you: you are saying there are cheap &lt;200$ scales
in the 0.0001 range? are you sure that you added a zero too much?

That kind of scales are usually extremely expensive.

[radiometer]

Not on Ebay they aren't

[allyourbase]

I mean taking a known amount of an unclumped material and breaking it into smaller volumes. the overall weight of a material may change should it absorb environmental elements, but through division of known volumes with known alkaloid content, one can achieve proper dosing, without the weight problems youd get from a scale (however accurate) in such a scenario(where original weight of the material has been effected by some sort of tampering with nonactives). youre absolutely correct, you MUST start with a known amount, which doesnt necessarily require a scale, it just requires a good source. Edited by: allyourbase

[gn2osis]

Originally Posted by allyourbase

I mean taking a known amount of an unclumped
material and breaking it into smaller volumes. the overall weight of a
material may change should it absorb environmental elements, but
through division of known volumes with known alkaloid content, one can
achieve proper dosing, without the weight problems youd get from a
scale (however accurate) in such a scenario(where original weight of
the material has been effected by some sort of tampering with
nonactives).

Sorry, that's just wrong, and your last part in parentheses doesn't
even make sense. Nothing against you personally, but you're
spreading bad information, as anyone with even a basic education in the
physical sciences could see. A milligram scale is way, way more
accurate than what you're talking about.

To repeat: if one doesn't have a milligram scale, then weigh out
a larger quantity (100 mg +) with a centigram scale and use the water
method.

youre absolutely correct, you MUST start with a known amount,
which doesnt necessarily require a scale, it just requires a good
source.

Correct, and that doesn't include most RC suppliers. A lot of
them may be good in terms of sending the right material, but in terms
of getting exactly 1.0 gram? Don't bet on it.

[moracca]

I think what he was saying is that if, by chance, the RC has absorbed some particles from the environment, then even if you have an extremely accurate scale, you still would not be getting an accurate measurement of the RC itself.





//moracca

[sg43]

Actualy last time SWIM bought a RC he received 0.977 of a gram (suppose to be full gram) not that big of a deal tho, he figures some was stuck in the bag and he also has a 0.001 scale.

[Solidly-here]

A Gram is a Gram ... more or less.


In the past (pre-DEA-wipes-out-American-sources), I ordered RCs from 2 different companies. I was happy with both of them.


My last order included 3 grams of 4-HO-DiPT. It came in a long, thin vial (pretty cute). When I weighed it out on my My Weigh scale (which seems good to about 20 mg, on a good day), I smiled as it read 3.26 grams.


Also, each of the other RCs was at least a smidgen over. Personally, I would be happy (enough) to receive .95 grams for a one-gram order (after all, a little bit goes a long way).


My first few ventures with RCs, were mind-blowing. I had a scale which was "good" to about 20 mg (even though it said 10 mg sensitivity). I carefully measured out a small-milligram dose, and then (with the scale being off almost anentire order-of-magnitude for the dosage I wanted) I loaded up 35-to-45 mg of 5-MeO-DiPT, hoping that it was 15 mg (a standard dose).


Later, I happened to bring one of my standard doses along with me to a Chem lab at UC Berkeley. They have scales which are amazingly accurate. She poured out the RC ... Hmm, no, not 15 mg, not 20, not 25, not 30 ... 44.37 mg. Oops!


So, from that day forward, I just eyeball each dose in the bottom of a "00" gelatin capsule. This works just fine for me.


Sometime in the future, however, I am going to try a new RC (as I am granted access to the Sources). So, I will plop some in a capsule and run back over to the Chem lab.


Although, I MAY go ahead and buy another (better) scale some day, I have read several posts which show that (just about) any scale I can afford is very tricky to get accurate results from.


One thing for sure, I'm glad that none of the RCs is as powerful (milligram for milligram) as LSD. With that, if you're off by 1 milligram, its a pretty-big deal (or even half-a-milligram, a tenth ...).

[moracca]

I asked my supplier about the accuracy of the amounts the ship, and was told (at least for 100mg orders) that there is a +/- 2mg margin of error. Seems good enough for me to do a vodka division.


//moracca

[allyourbase]

gn2osis, when youve hadone gram of material turn into four grams of odd slimey goo you might understand what Im trying to say. some materials absorb moisture, when the weight becomes effected you have to do it by volume, which by that point is fairly easy as its all near liquid.

[gn2osis]

Originally Posted by allyourbase

gn2osis, when youve hadone gram of material
turn into four grams of odd slimey goo you might understand what Im
trying to say. some materials absorb moisture, when the weight becomes
effected you have to do it by volume, which by that point is fairly
easy as its all near liquid.

OK, I get what you're saying. The technical term for solids that
seem to soak up water like a sponge is "hygroscopic". Yeah,
that's tough. In chem
lab such materials are handled in a glovebag under a dry atmosphere,
but
that's a little tough for the home tinkerer.

Whether you're dealing with a solid or a gooey near-liquid, the key is
to measure precisely. Eyeballing won't do it in either
case. If I were handling something that had become very gooey,
I'd just dilute it based on the original dry
weight, and proceed as with anything diluted. With a tryptamine,
this would mean making an aqueous solution and freezing it solid in order to preserve it, which
may not be convenient, but there just isn't any other way. I
understand that you've been doing it differently and lived to tell the
tale, but eyeballing is just not reliable, certainly not for materials
that are active in the 10's of milligrams. You know the saying:
there are bold psychonauts, there are old psychonauts, but there are no
old bold psychonauts.

FWIW, for others reading the thread, the RC that seems to have been
most notorious for hygroscopicity is 4-AcO-MiPT, and it appears from
most reports that its parent 4-HO-MiPT is generally regarded as more
interesting.

[yajw]

You can score a 0.1mg scale from university auctions, Lab-x, Ebay,
culinary schools, etc for under $500. Yes, the labs was $200. A foaf
had their calibration service give it a minor tune-up.



SWIM just received a gram of 2cb. But it turned out to be 1.112g. The
1st thing that happens is the mass is measured, and then a little
drying to get the dry mass weight. Usually within +/- 2mg from straight
out of the shipping package. Just keep in an airtight vial, and if it's
one of the more hygroscopic ones, throw in small bit of silica. Keeping
out the environmental moisture will be the biggest factor in having
water throw off your dose weights.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good idea with the silica gel.