Opinions - Why LSD Should NOT Be Legal

[0ctavarium]

Ok, first of all, LSD use is 100% fine if the person is well educated about it and can take it responsibly. However, a world-wide legalization of LSD would be a disaster. If LSD was regarded as easy to get as a beer, many people would take it. However, people would usually be as uneducated about it as the alcohol they now drink. Now with alcohol, it is quite weak, but still, look at all the problems it is causing to idiotic people. Lots of drunk driving accidents, psychological addiction, taking it to get over depression, etc. Now take what today's stupid people do with alcohol and replace alcohol with LSD. Take a nice time to thing about this. Instead of drunk driving, acid-trip driving, instead of "fuck 2 beers, I'll have 12" it will be "fuck 1 tab I'll take 10", and the goes on. This would be a huge disaster. Firstly, even if one took a normal dose but wasn't well educated about it, they wouldn't know the length of the trip and would have plans or something and would really screw that up, especially if they tried to drive or had work. Next, the binge drinking turning into binge tripping. Now, I'm pretty sure we could all agree that taking huge doses of LSD many times is bad for you. SWIM's talking 15 tabs every weekend for a year. No, it won't kill you, but could lead you somewhere around insanity. An example we can use - Syd Barett. Ex-Pink Floyd vocalist for those who aren't familiar. He started taking LSD responsibly, but eventually started dosing way too much, which was caused by his friends' idea of spiking everything with LSD. He pretty much lost his mind after a year or two.

Hopefully SWIY gets the idea.
Just because SWIY and his friends can handle the wonder that is LSD doesn't mean Mr.CollegeFratBoyBingeDrinkerRetard can. Only way LSD could be legal is if you had to take a are you stupid? test to get it.
This goes for many other non-addictive substances too, except for the weaker stuff like marijuana.

tl;dr: LSD is good for responsible users, bad for majority of society who are too stupid to handle it, lsd driving = bad, binge tripping = bad

Edit: After thinking a bit more, I decided that LSD could only be legal if it was extremely well controlled, so Mr.CollegeFratBoyBingeDrinkerRetard could only get it in small doses after having a lecture about it and maybe even proving he is in decent mental health.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Unhelpful opinionated rant not backed up by any evidence

[Junket]

Though I know what you are saying, I don't think the simple fact its legalized would mean everybody would treat it like alcohol or even do it for that matter..

I especially don't think people would binge on it..

After a solid 10 hour fry, an uneducated, non-user will probably be good for a while

[0ctavarium]

Originally Posted by Junket

Though I know what you are saying, I don't think the simple fact its legalized would mean everybody would treat it like alcohol or even do it for that matter..

I especially don't think people would binge on it..

After a solid 10 hour fry, an uneducated, non-user will probably be good for a while

Yes, I don't know if people would do it either.

If it was the type of underground legality that salvia has now, then by all means legalize it, but if it will turn into the new cigs/alcohol, then it won't work out.

[Junket]

I don't really think anything has potential to be the new cigs/alcohol, except weed.

Cigs are any time of day, any where.
Drinks are readily available at gas stations and bars, where you can hang with other drinkers..

Weed has the cross over ability of being useful for both events.

taking acid, as your post states, is a commitment. You don't just drop without plannin ahead a little bit.

It seems like common sense to DF members, which is basically what your saying, so I guess I have no further input

[Waffa]

But they COULD use it as medicine for treatment at least... there is also many medical drugs what can mess you up but it's not easy to get them legally - you cant just go in and buy them.
but then again... actually there is no good with no bad and vice verca

[polidelaiko]

It's Mr.CollegeFratBoyBingeDrinkerRetard who should be illegal.
If LSD was legal it would probably be regulated. Maybe you'd have to buy it in the drugstore and you'd need a prescription or something.

[jaffacake]

I liked Timothy Learys idea of introducing licensing for drugs. To purchase LSD from the pharmacy you would need to go to a class, be taught and pass a test about it.

Very, very few people would abuse LSD. I love LSD more than words can say and even I don't abuse it. The more you use it the less fun it becomes.

[entheogensmurf]

To begin, I do understand what you are saying. And, I do not think it should be over the counter, available to anyone who is simply old enough (lets say 21 even though I'm not sure it'd need to be so high).

This again comes back to my fun example of using sky diving.
People are not allowed (and should not be) to simply attach a parachute to their back and hop out of a plan. You must pass training courses -- shorter courses if you choose to go tandem

I've considered as a fun project to set up what I think would be required for a training course. What I think are fundamentals that people need to know for a plethora of reasons. Also, the tedious nature of learning so much would weed out the people who lack the discipline or respect (LSD can be fun but IMO you need to respect what it can do) for the drugs ability to affect the mind.

While I am not an expert, I have read many books and listened to quite a few lectures. Stanislav Grof is a sexy beast, even if he doesn't feel LSD should be made available to the masses



As for your comment about alcohol, toxic levels are easily achieved. I say easy, primarily due to the drunk state which allows you to make some very stupid choices.

Alcohol Overdose
http://alcoholstudies.rutgers.edu/onlinefacts/od.html

How Much is Too Much?
Scientists use the term "lethal dose" (LD) to describe the dose (or in the case of alcohol, the concentration) that produces death in half the population (LD:50). Most authorities agree that blood alcohol concentrations in the 0.40 - 0.50% range meet the requirements for the LD:50. The blood alcohol concentration is the percentage of alcohol in the blood that results after alcohol is absorbed from the stomach into the blood supply. Obviously, studies of lethal dosage cannot be tested empirically in the laboratory, so the LD:50 for alcohol is estimated from post-mortem cases in which alcohol poisoning was found to be the primary cause of death. However, there are documented cases of fatal overdoses from alcohol at blood alcohol concentrations lower than 0.40%. To place this in perspective, a 100-pound woman or man who consumed 9-10 standard drinks, respectively, in less than an hour would be in the LD:50 range. A 200-pound man would have to consume about 5-6 drinks per hour for 4 hours to reach the LD:50. Although such high rates of consumption are atypical of most situations, participating in drinking "games" or club "initiations" often involves highly unregulated alcohol consumption. Impaired judgment from intoxication, coupled with large amounts of alcohol, is a potentially fatal combination.

As for your comment about my friends taking LSD and being ok ... well, to be honest, I wouldn't dare let me friends dose if it's possible. That is, unless they read through at least two of my books and even then, I have at least one friend who SHOULD NOT dose with anything that drops the ego/invokes massive introspection. The poor bastard would probably kill himself or miraculously begin to appreciate life and stop hating himself (a flip of a coin chance which means it would be unethical).
That is, without the substance being legal and professional assistance available should it become more than a layperson can assist with.

LSD has a VERY VERY low abuse factor. Look it up.
It is not the typical escape drug that alcohol is. I acknowledge using extreme cases where people do abuse, but applying that to the masses doesn't work for me.

[polidelaiko]

If we were to make drugs illegal based on the dangers of driving under the influence, then why SSRI's, Benzos, Opiates, Ambien!! are legal to buy with prescription?
Nistagmus+Driving=Bad
Nodding+Driving=Worse
Sleepwalking+Driving=Worst

[seeingred]

Good point, but making it illegal for everyone just puts it in the hands of those with more power, think CIA and their ESP experiments. Although it shouldn't be that way, and SWIM agrees- there's no way you should legalize LSD, the world would be crazy like "The Happening"

[fnord]

I go to a local festival where acid is openly sold,getting acid there is about as easy as getting beer at the store,hell its actually even easier because you dont need an ID ande you dont need to go looking for it,just sit at your camp site smoking a joint and some guy wil walk by every 10 minutes shouting "acid! molly! mushroom! heady buds! 2cb! etc" . while there's a freak out every couple festivals people survive and learn(esp that tripping guy security had to duck tape to a tree!), and mrcollagefratboy dosnet usually treat it like beer,in grandmas experiance most peopel are scard of acid and only want a it or two,vetern space cadets who can handle it are the ones who will useally want to dose out hard.

[Junkhead23]

Acid doesn't really have the abuse potential of most other drugs because most are scared it could make them go absolutely fruit loop. SWIM was very cautious with it and is not even sure he would do it anymore because of depression.

[Lunar Loops]

As others have said, for the main part lsd is not a drug with any great abuse potential and SWILLboy feels that use would not increase that much if it were to become legal. He knows many people who would never wish to try it and can't understand why others do (regardless of legality). He knows of many others who have tried it once and were so set upon by Captain paranoia and the soldiers of introspection that they never wished to see the substance again, let alone sample it.

Also, as others have said, it is not something that can be taken casually and it has to be prepared for. We are talking about a large chunk of anyone's time. You are not likely to go out for a midweek tripple if you have work the next day (not unheard of I know, but hardly conducive to keeping your job in most walks of life).

Finally, SWILLboy has no time for the elitist sort of atitude that it is OK for some to take, but not for others. Only the worthy may take the sacrament? He's all for training and education, but you can not exclude on the basis of stereotyping. Besides which, if it's legal and people really do want to try (as already discussed, that won't be many) they will find a way regardless of what hoops you try and make them jump through.

[Corksil]

As previously stated, it's hard to abuse LSD. Paranoia and introspection comes on quick after repeated tripping - after sitting there tripped out locked in your mind for a few hours, one tends to start thinking. After doing this night after night (assuming one could sleep afterwards, erm.. during the experience) -- one would eventually start wondering why they liked taking it so much. From the shadows introspection attacks!

[robin_himself]

Originally Posted by 0ctavarium

If it was the type of underground legality that salvia has now, then by all means legalize it, but if it will turn into the new cigs/alcohol, then it won't work out.

In The Netherlands Salvia isn't "underground legal" but simply legal and sold in shops. We the dutch can smoke weed without a problem yet we don't smoke as much as the rest of the world.

Also... you are judging and stereotyping way to much in your posts. Mr. this and Mr. that. Its only perspective.

[runitsthepolice]

How about some kind of drug use license for "harder" drugs? Requirements include taking the drug in a clinical setting as well as classes and a final exam. Like a drivers license your privilege could be revoked by acting like an idiot or what have you. License would be required to purchase a small amount of drugs from a pharmacy. Transfering your drugs should be a felony. Distributing to a minors should be a felony. Driving fucked up should be a felony. Maybe even some sort of law close to an open container law that we have for alcohol now, in that it would be fine to have the drugs in your car if it were out of reach like in the locked glove compartment or the trunk. Seems reasonable to swim.

[seeingred]

Swim kind of keeps falling back on the, "But why even make it legal?" because SWIM has never tried or taken LSD, and wonders what the big deal is...or if there's a point to making it legal when there are drugs that aren't as intense, and Swim thinks that if after repeated using the drug that you get flashbacks, paranoia, etc. that it would be highly dangerous and not a very good legal recreational substance- even despite if it is used in some kind of license like cigarettes or alcohol. LSD is different...on the flip side they might just not want people to have the kind of mind-expanding power that some drugs offer when taken the right way, under the right conditions.

[Sven99]

Octavarium. Are your conclusions based on any actual research, or is it purely speculation as to what the outcome might be were LSD to be legalised?

The research shows that LSD is a drug with low harm and abuse potential. It is rated as slightly more dangerous than cannabis but much less likely to lead to addiction (ie much less dangerous and much less addictive than alcohol and tobacco)

Ironically, prohibition probably does have an effect on the availability of acid - as all the underground chemists would prefer to make something simpler and more profitable (like meth). But thats not to say its not available. And looking at prohibition of a single drug in isolation doesn't make very much sense, as many of the problems caused by prohibition don't relate to individual drugs, but to the unregulated market that prohibition leads to. If acid is illegal, users are using it in unknown quantities or unknown purity and we have no way of knowing overall trends of use. Were it legal doses and prices can be controlled, use can be monitored and changes to the regulatory structure can be made to protect users.

On a personal level, while I think some drugs need different regulatory set-ups than others, I honestly don't believe that any recreational drug is better off prohibited than regulated.

[DeathCell]

Should be legalized, regardless of safety. Shouldn't be regarded as alcohol though.

[Franz]

When LSD was legal it caused ALMOST no problems anyway. Making it illegal in '66 (here in States) caused the problems.

For once I don't have to say SWIM since I did acid in the 60s in the US before it was illegal. Nobody was "abusing" it except the pranksters and they were getting paid to do that, at least that's what history seems to say.

The 250 to 500 micrograms of LSD that were available then were splendid stuff, could easily now be sold without script, and had almost no abuse potential. A few ninnies taking 5-10 tabs to get screwed up can be the only issue, and it would be self-limiting. I mean people having bad trips just said the hell with it and stopped.

Drug laws are baby steps to totalitarianism. LSD done right is a giant leap to freedom.

[Creation339]

I don't like people telling me what I can and can not put into my body, I would be more worried about the unhealthy food people eat every day, with added chemicals that serve the body no good purpouse at all (so why are they there..). In my opinion, keeping substances strictly illegal because of the harm they may cause, we could ban walking outside too, because that would probably be more dangerous statisticly. Nah, let's not let assholes (the "elite") decide what's best for us (which they have proven over and over again that that is not their intentions), proper education would be better I think, and control. I don't mean "let the acid flow dude", but it should certainly be available, if ya ask me.

[Cryptic Concoction]

Here's a link some may find relevant to this discussion:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...ery-slope.html

Without evidence to indicate that this would be a logical sequence of events ensuing legalization of LSD, your affirmations are dubious, to say the least.

[Dewmeister]

LSD's current status as a schedule I drug is not where it should be classified. It is a very powerful compound with a myriad of both positive AND negative effects, which can vary greatly from person to person. One person might experience heavenly bliss while another might experience 12 hours of insanity.

There should be a psychedelic crisis hotline which one can call if they experience troubles on these kinds of drugs (regardless of its legality!!!) and one should be required to obtain the drug from a medically licensed doctor who would first educate the user on what he/she is getting into.

Its illegal status pushes this powerful and useful psychedelic onto the streets where it should not ever be, because that is where the danger lies. If it were controlled in such a way that those who choose to use it have to get it from a reliable professional source, and that person must be educated beforehand and have ample safety precautions in place, it would be not only safe to use but also would be looked at in a more positive light and even potentially used in a more medical fashion, such as for the treatment of various stages of depression.

Recreational drug use is a double-edged sword because while there are all kinds of benefits, there are also the inherent risks that need to be dealt with. The supporters of recreational drug use argue that the benefits outweigh the risks and the opposers have the opposite argument, but one thing is commonly agreed upon by the general population, and that is the way we are trying to deal with the issue at hand is NOT working.

[Franz]

Originally Posted by Dewmeister

If it were controlled in such a way that those who choose to use it have to get it from a reliable professional source, and that person must be educated beforehand and have ample safety precautions in place...

The Neo American Chruch tried to do it this way and were successful for a brief time before being harrassed and intimidated. I was initiated by one of their founders (again, before LSD was illegal) and they were bright and knew their rules about dose, set and setting.

I cannot imagine medical professionals being the same. Unless it is a specific TYPE of shaman-psychologist with lots of experience. Most medical types have other things to do. Too bad since LSD really was the most successful psychiatric substance in history and did great work even in our somewhat less-formal settings.

Most acid trips were strictly low-dose, which made the guide's job easy. 250 micrograms tabs were typical. The purple stuff that surfaced later (67-68) was in that range if I recall.

Anyway once initiated, taking trips on one's own was encouraged and enjoyable. No one properly guided the first time had any trouble later, so far as I have been able to discover. If one trips responsibly, don't drive and NEVER throw any other drug into the mix, one simply cannot have a bad trip. It just don't happen.

[Lehendakari]

I would like to point out that alcohol, though legal is not a weak drug at all.