Health - Low Serotonin Symptoms - Memory Torture

[acid101]

My mate Monkey knows exactly of this and its probably the first time he has been able to explain the thoughts. He also says that he has continued use of E for the past 2 years with around 1250-1500 tablets consumed. He says he experienced those problems early on, though has much severe forms of paranoia and anxiety now that is uncontrollable at times.

[thealmassi1]

^^^ Good call. It is unfair to say drugs are careless and senseless. It's a matter of opinion. Drugs can be used responsibly and carefully. It CAN lead to depression, but is not always the case. It is SWIM's responsibility to know the consequences of drug use and it's redundant to repeatedly point out a possible negative side effect of drugs on a forum about drugs.

Next time, please support your claims with evidence so you can be taken seriously. Erode? I think I heard the same word in health class in high school to describe drugs. lol

[scored]

I generally consider my monkey to be a responsible drug user, but he did go a bit over the top during the holiday period, particularily around new years. His mood has swung some since, feeling very tired and dreaming every night. Regarding memory loss his monkey can't remember very well at the best of times and lifes his life in lists.
Swim is re-learning to respect all drugs, particularily a new source of mdma. He is not at the "when the pain out-weighs the pleasure" stage but feels it is looming around the corner. To say its just the drugs would be unfair there are other mitigating circumstances in Swim's life that are mood altering.

[waffen]

People just say what happening after E use .No matter how much u consume e there is a big chance that you will get depressed after using it .

[Quagsign]

SWIM was reading through this thread and was continuously wondering about that age old trick of "the power of suggestion".

He understands that the depletion of seratonin results in loss of memory, and has also noticed a change in memory retention since he began experimenting with MDMA. But he also knows that prior to his experimentation(with all mind altering substances) his memory was not so good either.

He does not experience the "memory torture" mentioned, but he seems to dwell on the thought that his memory is shitty due to his drug usage. Could this result in memory loss and difficulty in memory creation/retention by itself?He can only wonder... However, he does believe that the power of suggestion is at work.

Now, I have to post using my iPod touch, so please excuse anything that is ridiculously spelled or grammatically fucked, my battery is about to die and I have no time to proofread.

[Micklemouse]

Oh do stop it kittlings, or more than negative rep will flow. Now, back to the question please. Respectfully.

[snapper]

how do the three ssri's SWIJasim mentioned change the aftereffects of seratonergics?
Did SWIJasimself medicate, and what dose / frequency was used of each and in what combination ?

[Jasim]

Originally Posted by snapper

how do the three ssri's SWIJasim mentioned change the after effects of seratonergics?

Considering that sertonergic drugs cause changes in neurochemistry including compensatory reactions after a single dose, using an ssri after using a sertonergic drug will mitigate the negative effects of coming off the serotionergic drug.

Coming off a serotonergic drug is likely to leave the brain deficient of serotonin (due to using up stores) and serotonin receptors (due to neuronal pruning). Using an ssri effectively increases the extracellular concentrations of serontonin.

Also note that the other monoamines are also partly responsible. Norepinephrine in particular has a significant effect on mood and depression.

Did SWIJasimself medicate, and what dose / frequency was used of each and in what combination ?

Ok, so it's a little more complicated than just giving a set formula to follow.

Firstly, if one uses an ssri (particularly for chronic use) it is likely to have a negative effect on the activity of sertonergic agents. Meaning someone on antidepressants will need more LSD, MDMA, whatever to experience the same effect as someone who is not on an antidepressant.


Swim uses tramadol daily for pain. Swim really likes tramadol as there are several active metabolites, two of which are a serotonine reuptake inhibitor and a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. Swim has come to know is body pretty well and knows when he needs to take an additional ssri or an maoi from kava.

Other than telling swims personal experiences, there is little swim can do to suggest using ssri's for these purposes.
It is worthwhile to note two things here. One ssri's have been implicated in suicidal thinking and two ssri's when combined with serotonergic substances can cause serotonin syndrome, which is fatal.

[snapper]

SWIM agrees not to advocate this combo to anyone.
That said, does SWIJasim use one dose of an SSRI after a seratonergic or a short course ? SWIM knows that SSRIs usually block the effects of seratonergics, and though the serotonin syndrome thing is of concern, fortunately it does not seem to happen very often.
The hallucinogenic most documented to cause serotonin syndrome with an SSRI is DXM at recreational doses.

[Jasim]

Originally Posted by snapper

That said, does SWIJasim use one dose of an SSRI after a seratonergic or a short course ?

Swim generally tries a short-course. When using an ssri in such a way, swim is careful to ween off. Coming off suddenly causes swim to feel depressed, fatigued, and just plain emotionally ucky. Swim likes tramadol after weening off a strong ssri, because the tramadol metabolite is a much weaker ssri than say citalopram or duloxetine. Swim also prefers the combined action of an ssri with a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (i.e. duloxetine and tramadol).

As swim stated previously, swim has come to know his body/mind pretty well and just 'feels' when swim needs something and what swim needs. This has come from years of cognitive therapy and monitoring swims mood, emotions, and stress level.
Swim found it helpful in the beginning to rank his current emotional/mental state and amount of stress. Swim then was able to learn the signs of coming emotional/mental distress and what things (quiet time, music, drugs, etc.) worked best to prevent and treat those times.

[Ilsa]

^^good point, and serotonin is by no means the only player in memory function, but it's an important one nonetheless. also, many other substances commonly used in conjunction with mdma (like bud) are associated with memory issues. imo, the overall dysregulation of serotonin and the downstream effects are enough to be at least moderately detrimental, but any other variables are definitely worth consideration.


and nice lit references, J. thanks! did you add 'em to the file archive?

[Jasim]

I could complicate the whole discussion by saying that many of these psychoactives have neuro-protective effects as well and can increase memory and cognition when used in lower than recreational doses.

[Ilsa]

^^i've read about therapeutic use....maybe you/i/we could start a separate thread on that? sorry for the off-topic

[scored]

Originally Posted by ilsa

^^i've read about therapeutic use....maybe you/i/we could start a separate thread on that? sorry for the off-topic

Yeah I heard about that, marriage guidance counsellors suggesting couples get loved up and work through thier differences...