Side effects - LSD: psychosis and PTSD

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

Swim's friend, who was an averagely sane person, recently had a bad trip on LSD (5 weeks ago) and seemed to be traumatised. Now he seems to be developing PTSD (Post traumatic-stress disorder)... Is it possible, however, that the LSD released a latent psychological problem? (even though it was only the second time Swim's friend had taken it)

Swim has looked for information on the internet, as Swim wants to be aware of the dangers of taking LSD. Swim knows, for example, that 0.1-0.01% of Alcohol users die every year (UK) compared to 0.005% of MDMA users (UK) (Sourced from BBC documentary "Is alcohol worse than ecstasy?". Swim would like some similar figures regarding "LSD psychosis" and PTSD

Wikipedia provided the following sources:

"Several studies have tried to estimate the prevalence of LSD-induced prolonged psychosis arriving at numbers of around

- 4 in 1,000 individuals (0.8 in 1,000 volunteers and 1.8 in 1,000 psychotherapy patients in Cohen 1960

- 9 per 1,000 psychotherapy patients in Melleson 1971"

Swim realises that developing problems is usually linked to using LSD too frequently but, seeing as swim's friend only used it twice before developing his serious problem, swim would be interested if anyone else has information, especially statistics, regarding LSD induced psychosis/Post Traumatic Stress Disorder/Traumatic stress in people who were of sound mental health prior to taking it.

Swim would also be interested in hearing any experiences of LSD induced psychosis/PTSD in swiy or people swiy know, both short or long term problems.

Ps: Swim intends this thread to be used for LSD induced psychosis/PTSD, not HPPD which is discussed Here: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...highlight=hppd

[Coconut]

Yes, it is very possible that LSD has triggered a latent mental condition in SWIY's friend. This happens rarely, but it is a significant danger of experimentation with psychedelics and, as far as I am aware, preventing this sort of scenario through harm reduction is one of the reasons why Drugs-Forum exists.

It is also possible that he does not have a mental condition but is simply disturbed as a result of his bad trip. A bad trip is a traumatic experience and this can cause stress or shock the same as any trauma in everyday life.

There are quite a few documents in the file archive on the topic of psychedelics being used to treat PTSD but I have been unable to find any papers which deal with the topic of them causing it.

[Songcycle67]

Yes, I would have to say that 4 in 1,000 sounds right. But only if you're including the people who burn themselves out or develop short-term psychosis. I'd say a more realistic figure for the number of people who develop chronic psychosis through minor use would emerge if you checked out statistics concerning the possibility that a person may have underlying psychological problems: that figure will give you a very good idea of how many people are at risk as this is the primary group of folks who ingest it once or twice and have long-term problems.

The real issue here is whether or not it is long-term psychosis. Due to the infrequent amount of trips taken, I'd say there's a good chance that it's short-term. Usually what happens with people who get short-term psychosis is they come in contact with information about themselves that they had previously not noticed or accepted. Then, whereas the proper thing to do in this situation is to accept it and float downstream, these individuals usually try to repress or bury the information and that's when it turns into quicksand. A small glitch in the experience, for an extremely mentally sensitive person, could produce weeks or months of psychosis until either the issue being repressed is addressed and brought to the fore or the effects of the drug are gone long enough for the person to successfully repress the information and go on.


Generally, LSD does not enduce insanity, but it is a damn good conductor for it. The bottom line is the people at the most risk will, by definition, never know they're at risk. Period. Everyone who puts LSD in their mouth the first time is taking a huge risk. The only thing that a person can do is be prepared for anything, go with the flow, and do it in the proper place at the proper time. After the first few trips usually the mental stuff starts hedging its way into the equation; generally the first couple are mild and filled with euphoria and wonderlust. Unfortunately after those types of experiences, some people choose to indulge in large amounts and don't realize what they're getting themselves into; by the time their 250 mics or whatever kicks in they know it's different this time and usually panic sets in.

If your SWIM used a large dose then this could be the case.

The best way to find out whether or not the psychosis is long-term is to talk with the individual. If they seem more "troubled" than "psychotic" then I'd say they're just trying to work through a difficult experience.

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

Swim's friend took one drop from a bottle so anywhere between 100 and 200 micrograms; not a large dose... Swim used the same bottle and was fine so it definitely wasn't PCP or something. he definitely seems more troubled than psychotic but he is delusional and, as a result, scared... He finds it hard to talk about any even slightly scary topics and has night terrors... When he speaks, he sounds very weak and timid. He seemed to be getting better but when he hit the 4 week milestone (incidentally the milestone where traumatic stress becomes post traumatic stress) he got worse...

[Songcycle67]

Yeah I actually completely forgot about your mention of PTSD. That is definitely a possibility as well. To me it sounds like a bit of PTSD and a bit of short-term psychosis. If SWIY were me, I'd tell your friend to go have himself checked out by a mental practitioner of some sort. This will get them in proper hands for care and diagnosis, but honestly many mental health professionals look down on or are uneducated about psychedelics, especially LSD. Without telling them what this person went through, though, diagnosis is going to be very hard and recovery even harder.

It is important that they know what they're dealing with, but at the same time there's a chance that the person may end up locked away in a mental ward and treated like a drug casualty and that is not conducive to a proper recovery. Break them out if you must, but don't let them rot away in a psych ward on lithium for the rest of their days.

[LoveSpaceDance!]

Hey there!

I thought Id just give you a bit of reassuring information hopefully!

About 3 years ago swim took way to many LSA seeds something that is pretty much identical to LSD, and tripped very hard. About 3 weeks later thinking that he was fine after it he was going to bed one night and the fear of the devil himself coming into him occurred.. It was to say the least... absolutely terrifying..

These feelings of dread and a state of constant panic stayed with him 24 hours a day. Each morning he woke up for a split second he though he was ok, but then the feelings filled him up again.

It was like being stuck at the very worst part of when someone sneaks up on you and scares the crap out of you. It was like putting that feeling on pause an not being able to shake it.

Swim had no idea what the hell was going on, but he linked it to the trip because just before he was going to bed that night all of this started happenin, he thought of the trip. He thinks it was like his brain was like ok lets see if you can handle all this information now, and he went into a constant state of panic.

Night terrors, anti social behaviour, you name it.. friends even said that he looked white and constantly scared..

Ok enough of that.. anyways Swim is fine again, and has tripped some times more now..

What did he do? Well funnily enough he actually got one of this things from the Internet, its called the Linden Method.

He was so desperate to find something to make him right instead of having to tell a doctor that he gave it ago.

It took months, and it never seemed like it was working but he kept at it, and one day a good bit down the road, he noticed that he had in fact made progress, he continued the program and now is fine again.

He realised that there are many different levels of this PTSD and GAD (General anxiety disorder) which swim thinks he had also, and that your friends case perhaps is worse, but swim thinks back to the intensity of what was happening and thinks there couldnt be much worse.

So I hope that this information helps, and I would definitely try that program, you really have to keep at it though!! At times it may seem impossible, but its not..

Its your mind, and you CAN take control of it!

Love,
M.

p.s During this time he had many night terrors and thinking that people were talking to him at night and stuff. But there was one amazing experience where he believes he had an out of body experince during one of his nights unrest.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Exceptionally on topic and informative.

[VitaminK22]

Swim agrees with songcycle, take swiys friend to a doctor or psychiatrist or something. Swiys friend probably thinks that hes done permanent damage to his brain and its scaring him, just being told by a professional that he will be alright is sure to make things better

[Joe-(5-HTP)]

Well it's been almost 2 months now but swim's friend still hasn't recovered. He has been quite good about staying positive: he just focuses on carrying on his life as normal and is happy at times. He still has periods of confusion and slight terror, however, especially at night...

Anyway his family got sick of his whining and sent him to a psychiatrist who has given him some anti-depressants and talked through the experience with swim's friend, being helpful and reassuring. I will post again if there is any dramatic change, but it seems (fingers crossed) like he is getting better. Although the psychiatrist says he will probably get worse before getting better.

Swim's friend was a totally normal sane person before his experience, and it was only the second time he had taken lsd... let this be a warning to anyone who thinks lsd is risk free.

[Galactagoat]

Yes you can definitely experience PTSD from a 'bad' LSD trip, it happened to my pet goat, many years ago. After many doses, over a number of years, with mainly positive experiences, eventually he entered the dark wood, like everyone eventually does given enough doses, and scared himself half to death, over the next few weeks he began to suffer very high levels of anxiety, panic,night terrors and depression which eventually wore him down into a mentally and physically exhausted wreck. He eventually went on to make a full recovery, more or less. The bad feelings (bad seems like such an inadequate word when I think back) lasted for around 8 months before they shrank enough to become managable, enough to get on with things in a so called 'normal' way but the scars are still there and every now and again it causes him some discomfort, especially if the things he consumes now get a little trippy, for example.

Some other points, he was never diagnosed (labelled) by a health worker, never used precription mind control meds and only when things became 100% unbearable did he seek help from a counsellor. I don't know if he was right not to seek help but it was what he decided was right for him at the time.

He also feels that he left part of himself behind and wants to go back and reclaim it but is much too frightened of the possible consequences.

I wish your friend the best of luck and with some 'letting go' and acceptance he WILL overcome it and recover.