Drug info - Are Psilocybin and Psilocin Poisons/Toxins?

[Waffa]

Well, Pinocchio know it may sound funny for most people but what Pinocchio want to know, is this expression actually by definition correct "Psilocybin / psilocin / shrooms poisoning " ? Our country mycologist use this expression often when they give interview to the newspapers etc to talk about why shrooms are dangerous. They also go in telling things like "narcs/addicts use these narcotic mushrooms to get high and lose contact whit reality, the high comes from the psilocinpoisoning what can be really dangerous " lol. Basically they compare these people who use mushrooms whit people who sniff clue and are hooked to heroin/crack.

Anyway but before Pinocchio gos argument whit anyone who reports the news or calls himself a mycologist he wants to know do they have right to report news like that or not? Is Psilocybin / psilocin toxins by definition ?

Pinocchio would want to know what is best way to describe psychedelic experiences? "poisoning whit hallucinations" would say government over here of course.

Even if they are right, how to debate whit this? (like "its poisoning, so it can not be good" ) ...isn't by same definition then many legal medicines toxins on legal doses?


cfsan.fda.gov (US Food and Drug Administration) says :

Psilocybin Poisoning:

A number of mushrooms belonging to the genera Psilocybe, Panaeolus, Copelandia, Gymnopilus, Conocybe, and Pluteus, when ingested, produce a syndrome similar to alcohol intoxication (sometimes accompanied by hallucinations). Several of these mushrooms (e.g., Psilocybe cubensis, P. mexicana, Conocybe cyanopus) are eaten for their psychotropic effects in religious ceremonies of certain native American tribes, a practice which dates to the pre- Columbian era. The toxic effects are caused by psilocinand psilocybin . Onset of symptoms is usually rapid and the effects generally subside within 2 hours. Poisonings by these mushrooms are rarely fatal in adults and may be distinguished from ibotenic acid poisoning by the absence of drowsiness or coma. The most severe cases of psilocybin poisoning occur in small children, where large doses may cause the hallucinations accompanied by fever, convulsions, coma, and death. These mushrooms are generally small, brown, nondescript, and not particularly fleshy; they are seldom mistaken for food fungi by innocent hunters of wild mushrooms. Poisonings caused by intentional ingestion of these mushrooms by people with no legitimate religious justification must be handled with care, since the only cases likely to be seen by the physician are overdoses or intoxications caused by a combination of the mushroom and some added psychotropic substance (such as PCP).

Waffa added 10 Minutes and 27 Seconds later...

One other site emedicine.medscape. [com] /article/167398-overview says:

Mushroom toxins include the following:
Cyclopeptides (ie, amatoxins, phallotoxins, virotoxins)
Gyromitrins
Orellanine
Muscarine
Psilocybin
Muscimol/ibotenic acid
Coprine
Direct central neurotoxins
Nephrotoxins
Myotoxins
Immunoactive toxins
Hemolytic toxins
GI irritants

"Muscarine, psilocybin, muscimol, and ibotenic acid are nervous system poisons."

Psilocybin and psilocin poisoning commonly are due to many Psilocybe species (ie, pelliculosa, semilenciata, caerulipes, cubensis), among others, but it also may be due to the ingestion of many Panaeolus species, some Amanita species, some Gymnopilus species (ie, spectabilis), and some Stropharia species. Psathyrella foenisecii and Psathyrella sepulchlaris are also common causes of psilocybin intoxication.

"Psilocybin poisoning: The onset of hallucinations is usually rapid, and the effects generally subside within 2 hours. Poisoning by these mushrooms is rarely fatal in adults and may be distinguished from ibotenic acid poisoning by the absence of drowsiness or coma. The most severe cases of psilocybin poisoning occur in small children, in whom large doses may cause hallucinations accompanied by fever, convulsions, coma, and death."

Central nervous system:
Hallucinations may be caused by poisoning from mushrooms that contain muscimol, ibotenic acid, psilocybin, and psilocin.
Convulsions may be secondary to hypoxia and shock but may also be caused by poisoning from mushrooms that contain gyromitrin, psilocybin, and isoxazole.

[Felix Guattari]

Whether something is an 'effect', a 'side effect' or a 'poisoning' reaction is a matter of language, politics and cultural context context of use, not biology.

The term poison in regular usage indicates something that 'ought not be ingested'. One medical dictionary defines a poison as "a substance that, on ingestion, inhalation, absorption, application, injection, or development within the body, sometimes in just small amounts, may cause structural or functional disturbance." A disturbance is always a disturbance-from, i.e., a disruption of something. In many cases, this is a disturbance of a well understood system, such as the circulatory or immune systems. However, the system being 'disturbed' in the case of psilocin intoxication - the CNS - is little understood. It is clear that an alteration of function is affected, but this alteration, for the most part, can only be described and modeled in behavioural/subjective terms.

Calling psilocin/psilocybin 'intoxication' (itself a bad, complex, loaded term) an instance of 'poisoning' is not then a statement based on biology, but rather an implicit assertion that there is something 'essentially' but inexplicably wrong with the ingestion of psilocin/psilocybin on the grounds that it is a poison of behaviour.

In short, the assertion that 'shrooms are poisonous is medically equivalent to saying they make the user act funny. Empty medical rhetoric.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good answer :)

[Routemaster Flash]

The fact that these clowns are calling psilocybin mushrooms 'narcotic' is enough to tell you they're talking out of their arseholes.

[Waffa]

Originally Posted by Routemaster Flash

The fact that these clowns are calling psilocybin mushrooms 'narcotic' is enough to tell you they're talking out of their arseholes.

Well, we know this 98% of people don't understand this and what we need is the way to say it to the people so people can understand they are wrong, specially the gov people.
They are to dumb and ask questions like a) why it's then classified as A-class drug? b) if it's similar to LSD and lsd is bad bad drug (lol according to gov) then how can be mushrooms good? c) how come all world governments basically have banned this, then it must be bad d) almost everywhere it's labeled as drug, drugs are bad mmmkay e) & and other busllshit like that - like its labeled as toxin or poison & you can get psi*poisoning etc


what this people need is short story whit some backup facts and research to explain them what shrooms are and what they are not - why


Pinocchio own explanation why governments do not want mushroom like "drugs" to be legal sounds kind of like conspiracy for most people (like then they cant fuck with people mind so much, you feel more as one with others, they cant sale you whatever lies/crap they want, you might actually get some knowledge about what is life and what is God (really bad for most of religions), basically in one word they cannot control you mind so easily.
etc

but anyway... i still need facts because or this all sounds like some paranoia and skisofrenia for most people.