Experiences - Swim seems to have unusually high natural opiate tolerance, am I alone?

[cybergenesis]

Hi.

Swim did a post recently saying he tried 30mg of methadone (his first ever opiate experience) and basically noticed little or no effect.

Well Swim tried opiates for the second time ever the other day.

Swim did 40mg Oxycodone. Remember this is swims second time EVER on opiates.

It made Swim mildly relaxed, happy, content. Swim didn't feel sedated and experienced no side effects. Swims breathing and pulse seemed the same as normal. While Swim thought the experience was enjoyable and mellow, it certainly was far from intense.

Swim speculates he probably could have done 80mg and have not been overwhelmed, certainly Swim is sure it wouldn't cause him to OD.

Is it normal to have a natural tolerance this high to opiates? Has anybody else had tolerance this high the first couple of times they have ever done opiates? Because the methadone was liquid, Swim had assumed that something must have been wrong with it, it must have had less in it than swim thought. But after Swim did oxycodone, it verifies Swim just has high tolerance. Swim thinks that this mean if he ever has an accident and needs pain relief they are highly likely to under medicate Swim. And if Swim keeps doing opiates and increase upon his natural tolerance then Swim might need very high doses to get effect.

Swim wants to hear your opinions and wants to hear from anyone else who started off with a naturally high tolerance to opiates.

Oh Swim should warn that the doses mentioned above are probably significantly too high for a normal opiate naive person, so do NOT take those sort of doses if you have no tolerance.

Swim should mention because it might be relevant that earlier in Swims life Swim used to be a chronic alcoholic. Also Swim went through periods of very heavy benzodiazepine abuse, though Swim is not like this any more. Swim has also used various neuroleptics (major tranquilizers) Maybe this has caused Swim to have a generally high tolerance to depressants, and this is extending onto opiates.

[laws0n]

Maybe in the long run its a good thing and it will stop SWIY from having some really bad problems later in life. Since SWIY has a high tolorance SWIM recomends that he should just forget about Opiates all together, at your tolorance you will have to spend alot of $ and when you get an actual tolorance on top of that thats talking about hunderds of dollars a week just to support SWIY's habbit. When SWIM had no tolorance what so ever 5mg Hydrocodone was a strong dose, and at 10mg Oxycodone, SWIM's body would tell him he did too much. Once SWIM wanted to go crazy and had no tolorance and took 40mg Oxycodone, past out for 6 hours, heard his alarm ring and ran into the bathroom and threw up 3 times, SWIM missed school and was throwing up ALL day probly 10 times total and felt it up to the next afternoon. Now that same dose wouldnt do anything for SWIM.

SWIY should take that as a good thing and stop wasting $ on opioids! The only thing that would probly give SWIY any bang besides popping alot of pills would be IVing H, which SWIM has never done because he is scared of needles and would not recomend it. SWIY dosent have to do opiates recreationally, unless SWIM is in legitimate chronic pain and needs then with SWIY's tolorance SWIM's advice would be to say "tried it, didnt work, move on"

[award11]

Hmmm.... I have never heard of one having such a high tolerance for a person who had no prior use. I am always suspicious of the brand, grade and authenticity of ones medication, especially with someone "new to the game". SWIM wonders if the liquid methadone was diluted or if the oxycodone was indeed an oxycodone 40mg. It's been SWIMs experience that there are some medicines that come from overseas that are manufacured in less than ideal conditions in small labs. These medicines are considered counterfeit and are nowhere close to as potent as true grade pharmaceuticals. They look identical but even pharmaceutical reps and company chemists can't tell the difference without testing it. If you don't see the bottle that it comes out of and know the source, there is a chance it's no what you are being told it is. It's also possible that you simply have a unusually high tolerance too ! Just food for thought.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very astute

[cybergenesis]

umm Swim is not sure about the methadone entirely, but he is certain of the source he got the oxycodone off. It was an 80mg Oxycontin, Swim took half. It was still in its original packaging. Swim has just found he needs around 40-60mg for good effect, just seems to be what Swim needs. But it does work then.

[mbarnes0]

What conditions are SWIY dosing under? Does SWIY take the dose on an empty stomach or with food or anything strange? This really does seem kind of odd. SWIM would say that SWIY should feel more from 40mg.

SWIM remembers the first time with 40mg OC. It was a lovely day. SWIM didn't take it orally though, but even oral doses of 40mg worked quite well at first. Always so good at first.

[weareone222]

swim here in on 120 mgs oxycontin 2x aday now the med seems to were off after 4 hrs. but been on it several months and has a very high tolarance.

[cybergenesis]

What conditions are SWIY dosing under? Does SWIY take the dose on an empty stomach or with food or anything strange? This really does seem kind of odd. SWIM would say that SWIY should feel more from 40mg.

Umm Swim usually has a mild amount of food in Swims stomach. Well Swim did this because Swim believed it might help reduce the chance of nausea (but Swim got no nausea whatsoever anyway). And yeah Swim just swallowed it.

But yeah Swim liked it, but it seems Swim ideal dosage may be about 60mg if taken orally.

[norcolepsy]

Originally Posted by cybergenesis

Umm Swim usually has a mild amount of food in Swims stomach. Well Swim did this because Swim believed it might help reduce the chance of nausea (but Swim got no nausea whatsoever anyway). And yeah Swim just swallowed it.

But yeah Swim liked it, but it seems Swim ideal dosage may be about 60mg if taken orally.

well there's swiyour answer. it most likely was 40 mg extended release. Could be wrong, but next time try busting it up into a powder and snort (or swallow) that. then see if the effect of the 40 mg is stronger

[samuraigecko]

SWIM has mentioned before that there are two kinds of opiate tolerance. "Acquired Tolerance" and "Natural Tolerance". This is an extremely good example of the latter.

Originally Posted by cybergenesis

Swim did a post recently saying he tried 30mg of methadone (his first ever opiate experience) and basically noticed little or no effect.

This can actually OD the average person.

Originally Posted by cybergenesis

Well Swim tried opiates for the second time ever the other day.

Swim did 40mg Oxycodone. Remember this is swims second time EVER on opiates.

It made Swim mildly relaxed, happy, content. Swim didn't feel sedated and experienced no side effects. Swims breathing and pulse seemed the same as normal. While Swim thought the experience was enjoyable and mellow, it certainly was far from intense.

40mg of Oxycodone is HUGE for a second time. Some people may have required hospitalization for that. A natural tolerance this high is not common (but also not rare however).

Originally Posted by cybergenesis

Swim speculates he probably could have done 80mg and have not been overwhelmed, certainly Swim is sure it wouldn't cause him to OD.

This speculation is totally unfounded. 80mg of Oxycodone is dangerous without an acquired tolerance. One would generally find that the fine line has been totally over stepped, 80mg of oxycodone is not going to feel like twice the amount of 40mg if you get SWIMs drift, the opiate analgesic effects are like a torque curve not a static line.

Originally Posted by cybergenesis

Is it normal to have a natural tolerance this high to opiates? Has anybody else had tolerance this high the first couple of times they have ever done opiates? Because the methadone was liquid, Swim had assumed that something must have been wrong with it, it must have had less in it than swim thought. But after Swim did oxycodone, it verifies Swim just has high tolerance. Swim thinks that this mean if he ever has an accident and needs pain relief they are highly likely to under medicate Swim. And if Swim keeps doing opiates and increase upon his natural tolerance then Swim might need very high doses to get effect.

SWIM would not say that it is normal but it is also not that unusual. SWIM knows a fair amount of people whom started with a naturally high tolerance to opiates. One person of whom he can think did a third of a gram of heroin for his first use (it is NOT recommended to do this, the guy actually intended to kill himself but is now instead a very rampant heroin user. This shows what circumstance and a high opiate tolerance can actually lead to . . . an expensive habit)

Originally Posted by cybergenesis

Swim wants to hear your opinions and wants to hear from anyone else who started off with a naturally high tolerance to opiates.

SWIM himself started with an above average tolerance. His first opiate was heroin and he IV'ed "a point" of hammer at the time 0.1 of a gram. Most people in his country go halves in a "point" for their first time, and the majority of the time they will puke. SWIM did this amount and hardly yawned, he ended up doing another about an hour later and felt that he had probably done too much.

Originally Posted by cybergenesis

Oh Swim should warn that the doses mentioned above are probably significantly too high for a normal opiate naive person, so do NOT take those sort of doses if you have no tolerance.

Agreed, these dosages are VERY dangerous to the opaite niave and should NOT be tried, even if one thinks they may have a high natural tolerance. It is better to be wrong than dead.

Originally Posted by cybergenesis

Swim should mention because it might be relevant that earlier in Swims life Swim used to be a chronic alcoholic. Also Swim went through periods of very heavy benzodiazepine abuse, though Swim is not like this any more. Swim has also used various neuroleptics (major tranquilizers) Maybe this has caused Swim to have a generally high tolerance to depressants, and this is extending onto opiates.

This may be the case, SWIM does not know of any study that has compared tolerances and their effects on other tolerances.

Good article, peace

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very detailed, unbiased

[cybergenesis]

samuraigecko, thanks for your very detailed and interesting reply. Its appreciated.

[The Sound of Clouds™]

SWIM has been wondering for about six years if he had a natural tolerance to opiates, or if such a thing even existed. In this period, Swim has seen many various painkillers, including a tablet of Morpheine once, and Oxycodone on at least ten occasions, ranging from 5mg generic Percocet to two 80mg OxyContin, with little more than a headache and a severe itch. Also Opium, smoked heavily at times in an attempt to break through, to no avail. Salvia Divinorum leaves and extracts had minimal effects, no intense breakthrough, even with repeated attempts using 40x extract and proper coaching. Swim however has had more than the most intense overwhelming psychedelic experiences with DXM, an addiction lasting almost 5 years and hundreds of "trips." These feelings at times included what Swim could only describe as "what an opiate buzz must feel like." Perhaps more intense. o.o

[killersnowman]

opiate tollerance has been linked to use of other downers... do swiy drink alot? or do swiy take benzos alot? these can influence your tollerance towards opioids. in fact swim stopped drinking for a while to try to get more use out of his poppies. so far so good. the euphoria he once knew is coming back.

[waltz#2]

Although SWIM doesn't advise trying more, some things SWIM has found that make it easier to blast off.

Not eating. Don't eat breakfast, don't eat lunch, and eat dinner after you've dosed.

Exercise before. Also works with the not eating thing, but stay hydrated.

Cigarettes. It's best if SWIY doesn't smoke often. SWIM can be feeling ok, wondering if they should take more, and half way through his first cigarette he will just melt into whatever he is sitting on.

[Vitamin Airplane]

SWIM has the same exact problem. Not taking any type of opioid for years, SWIM still has this huge natural tolerance to them. It sucks! No doctors want to prescribe any dosage that is helpful for SWIM, and he is in a lot of pain. They all treat SWIM as if he's some kind of drug addict, even when he hasn't touched any pain pills in over 5 years. SWIM has always just been this way.

[catchdog]

SWIM seems to have a very similar natural tolerance. SWIM had used kratom in the past but at a very low dose and not within a week or two. 45mg oxycontin (not extended release) was a pleasant but mild experience for him. But for SWIM, this seems to be the case particularly with oxycontin, as subsequent experiments have shown that a similar or lower dose of vicodin will result in a much stronger experience. He has never tried methadone or other opiates, so he doesn't know how those would affect him. But different drugs in the same family can work more or less effectively depending on the person. It may be that another opiate would be more effective for SWIY.

This is just a thought, and I'm pretty unknowledgeable in this area, but how long was it after the methadone that SWIY took the oxy? Because methadone has such a long half-life perhaps it was still in your body damping the effects of the oxy.

[Master_Khan]

Can swiy imagine how wonderful it would be to have a naturally 'low' tolerance to opioids? If there are people with a naturally high tolerance, it kind of stands to reason that the opposite might be true as well. Swim's cousins friend believes this is the case for him. What other explanation could there be for someone who can still find passage to la-la land on a solitary Vicodin ES?

[Vitamin Airplane]

It doesn't seem to matter what kind of opiates SWIM tries. Over the last 17+ years, after multiple surgeries, SWIM has been on just about everything at one time or another. SWIM's doc put him on fentanyl and even that doesn't effect him very much, unless he uses at least 100mcg/h. Everyone tells SWIM that these are strong drugs, but SWIM barely feels them unless he takes doses that are supposedly 4 or 5 times what "normal" people can feel relief from. It's not just opioids, either. SWIM has a similar tolerance to benzos, too. (Although, he's been on them a lot longer.) SWIM thinks it has something to do with his Tourette Syndrome and extremely high metabolism. Oxycontin is just crap for SWIM. He doesn't even understand how anyone can get high on those. SWIM remembers being in the hospital before one surgery, in extreme pain, and they gave SWIM 4 times the dosage of morphine that they said they would give most people. SWIM felt almost no relief until they gave him hydromorphone. That and fentanyl seem to be the only things that really help, but only at pretty high doses. It sucks having such a high natural tolerance to these drugs when SWIM is in pain. SWIM is so tired of doctors freaking out about it, even though they openly admit that some people do actually have a natural high tolerance to these types of medications. All the codone family medications seem to do is make SWIM itch. At high doses, SWIM does catch a buzz from them, but they do not seem to do much for SWIM's pain. Getting high is not what SWIM is after, really. At this point, SWIM really just wants pain relief. He's finally found a pain doctor that is helping him, but he hopes the doc will eventually raise the doses a bit. SWIM thinks he will finally be able to start physical therapy soon, and he's very happy about that. The pain has kept him from being able to start PT since his last surgery.

[Daytona71]

SWIM is prescribed 120mgs.of Methadone a day along with 96mgs. od hydromorphone(Dilaudid). 40mgs of dilaudid eaten with some methadone still in the system(36hr. half life) and 40mgs. of Diazepam, 60mgs. of dextroamphetamine also precsribed with an Ambien CR for sleep(don't know the chemical name) and no euphoria from anything and even rails some hydromorphone on occasion to extend it and 16mgs. railed does not domuch at all. Does remove the pain, awaiting another morphine pump as that helped and delivered 25mgs. to SWIM's spine in 24 hours and stoillthe methadone and hydromorphone were taken, yeah sucks but as always be smart, safe and stay around.

[missparkles]

Daytona.

Sparkles isn't surprised actually. When she has been in lots of pain she has had to use morphine pump, but never got high, it seems the pain over-rides the buzz usually associated with large doses of opiate meds.
She hopes swi Daytona feels better (less pain) soon.
Take care.
Sparkles.

[Vitamin Airplane]

Originally Posted by Daytona71

SWIM is prescribed 120mgs.of Methadone a day along with 96mgs. od hydromorphone(Dilaudid). 40mgs of dilaudid eaten with some methadone still in the system(36hr. half life) and 40mgs. of Diazepam, 60mgs. of dextroamphetamine also precsribed with an Ambien CR for sleep(don't know the chemical name) and no euphoria from anything and even rails some hydromorphone on occasion to extend it and 16mgs. railed does not domuch at all. Does remove the pain, awaiting another morphine pump as that helped and delivered 25mgs. to SWIM's spine in 24 hours and stoillthe methadone and hydromorphone were taken, yeah sucks but as always be smart, safe and stay around.

Damn! How in the hell does SWIY get anyone to prescribe such high doses of dilaudid? SWIM only gets 18mg per day. SWIM wishes they'd give him a higher dose, but they act as if the stuff is heroin or something. They've already given SWIM "the lecture" suggesting opiate hyperalgesia and shit and threatening to cut him off, just because he slightly adjusted his meds a few days when the pain was worse.

[Daytona71]

Originally Posted by Vitamin Airplane

Damn! How in the hell does SWIY get anyone to prescribe such high doses of dilaudid? SWIM only gets 18mg per day. SWIM wishes they'd give him a higher dose, but they act as if the stuff is heroin or something. They've already given SWIM "the lecture" suggesting opiate hyperalgesia and shit and threatening to cut him off, just because he slightly adjusted his meds a few days when the pain was worse.

SWIM has had a back surgery in the early90's and a fusion with cadaver bones and screws, a 360* version(2000) and still the pain was there and actually worse, pump was up to 25mgs. of morphine directly to the spine(2003-2008) which is said to be like a 100:1 RATIO TO ORAL AS A CONVERSION SO LIKE 2500MGS ORALLY DAILY. SWIM has done 150mgs. of moprphine for breakfast with nothing but a cloudy head the result. SWIM does not like that med. SWIM has to take a personal stash to hospitals for surgeries as they do not know what to do with SWIM and SWIM is honest with them and they do not believe what SWIM has had fordaily intakes when SWIM was supplementing from the street. No more. Just railed 16mgs and just some nod. SWIM even asked for the brand name to get the garbage out, done.
After a couple of years it became a drag. Being clean would be a joy!
Another major surgery awaits so getting these doses is a curse after a while. In a hydromorphine thread SWIM asked what SWIM could dowith the 6000mgs. SWIM had saved and was doubted as to SWIM's truth/correctness. The rainy day came when the pump went on the fritz and all saved is gone.
God gave us opiates for a reason and abuse is not one. SWIM has confessed tomany at SWIM's church about the route taken to stretch the meds as 96mgs a day with the methadone is not cutting it right now.
Tried 120mgs. of oxymorphoneIR daily with 120mgs.of ER also and found hydro better by the way.

[Vitamin Airplane]

SWIM is actually starting to heal and feels less and less like he needs opiates. He has asked to be weened off of the fentanyl, since it makes detox a real bitch, but still likes his dilaudid. Perhaps oxymorphone would be better? SWIM would like a heavier daily dose of dilaudid, but can't seem to find a doc who doesn't think surgery is the only answer. SWIM is one of those people who just won't let them cut until the pain is intolerable and he can't walk anymore, so dilaudid seems like the best solution, as long as the pain is not getting worse. But there are still days when he sure wishes he had a few more doses a day. The normal 18mgs a day just doesn't quite cut it anymore. It would be nice to just have enough lying around not to have to worry about running out all the time. ER's won't help anymore for some reason. Last time SWIM went to an ER they flat out just refused to give SWIM anything. That's when SWIM started looking for a real pain clinic that doesn't think pain pills are quite so taboo. They still treat SWIM as if he's a drug seeker, if he goes over his alotted dosage. SWIM still has hopes that he's getting better and maybe won't need these forever, but in the meantime, he's thinking about finding another doctor who doesn't drug test him all the time. After 3 surgeries and 17 or so years of back pain, SWIM believes he can manage his own medications pretty well.

[beizebopp]

SWIY should make sure that SWIY doesnt take the same amount they are taking now after thier wounds are healed. It may well be far too much.

[Wehr]

How long after the methadone did swiy take the oxycodone? Maybe it wasn't 30 mg methadone as swiy had thought and the methadone blocked some of the oxycodones effects. If it was a low dose of methadone swiy may not have thought he was feeling any effects but really was. Methadone can be a tricky bugger. Just a thought.

[Vitamin Airplane]

That's why the dilaudid is good, ISO. It's short acting, so you can tell how much pain you're in when you stop taking it. Being on fentanyl all the time, SWIM hadn't realized he was actually getting better, until he started getting off of it.