Journal - Some advice please on codeine quitting

[dawnies07]

Ok here goes.... I have been avidly reading this forum (in particular Rokman Nash, Patient X and Dickons story.....absolutely indredible guys!!) and have decided to get my friend to follow in their footsteps and try and get help to beat her 3 year addiction to codeine and sleepers!

The mere thought of this is terrifying her as she has had to do without codeine for maybe a day and it was just horrendous but she knows she sounds so stupid when there are other guys out there who have managed to come off much more potent stuff!

Currently my friend is taking 120mg of codeine 4 times a day....and then 2 sleepers (zopiclone) at night....
She was prescribed the codeine following the birth of her daughter which resulted in some sort of pelvic and back pain...this pain is still with her now but she would rather just deal with the pain and be off the codeine..

It has got to the stage now that she needs to up her dose of codeine in order to get high and she generally feels like shit all day with very little high....she starves herself all day long in order to get ultimum effect of codeine on an empty stomach so has lost stacks of weight....
When she finally does eat late at night the effects of the codeine wear off quite rapidly and she quickly downs 2 sleepers in order to get another high and then go to bed and get up and start all over again...

Basically she cant imagine a life without feeling the high the codeine gives her! Her daughter is her whole life and she wants to be healthy and clean for her.....her daughter was also born with a very rare genetic syndrome and my friend thinks she takes the tablets to blot out dealing with the realities of this...she worries so much for her daughters future.....they are a one parent family..

What she would like to know at the moment is....does she wean herself off or just stop altogether?? Does she stop both the sleepers and codeine together or one at a time?? Should she try kratom to ease with the withdrawal?? Will she be able to function and be a "mummy" while going through the initial stages of withdrawal??
Sorry for all the questions

[dawnies07]

Thanks so much for your reply betsym!

Swim thinks she would prefer the tapering method if this helps avoid the nasty withdrawals (does it?) .....just have to get the courage up to actually start this!!
Swim has ordered some Kava Kava and some Vitamin B tabs as she read in another thread that these can help with the recovery....once she has received these she doesnt really have anymore excuses to put off getting on the road to recovery....

Swim wishes so much that she never ever was prescribed codeine!!

[AvidFan]

Dawnies, replied to PM - but just adding support here too.

Good luck - keep posting your thoughts, feelings and questions

HNY for tonight

[rokman nash]

The only advice my friend might add is to tell your loved ones about your problem.Dave tried to quit a number of times on the down low,and found that (for him) it was impossible. The support of your loved ones will provide you with the strength/determination to break through.

Good luck and happy new year to you and yours

[Rainbowzz]

SWIY (((hugs)))) <--- cyber hugs for you


SWIM is in the EXACT same position right now... You can read SWIMS thread "Hi all..SWIMS codeine addiction" to get a better idea if SWIY wants.


SWIM has a pain condition and SWIM is taking large doses of codeine too and trying to taper down, so SWIM knows how you feel darling.

If SWIy wants to talk or vent or rant or anything or just wants to share the tapering process and such, SWIy can PM anytime. SWIM is new to this recovery thing too but will try to help as much as possible.

SWIM thinks it IS possible, and again look at some of the great stories here of hardship and recovery.. SWIM and SWIY are mommies and we can do this!

Reputation Comments on this post:

excellent to share this info in my current situation

[doublezero]

gradual reduction,,,if its pills, cut a tiny bit off a pill,,,then 3 days - 7days, cut a bit more off.

same with the sleepers,,just dont rush, and dont be to hard on yourself if u relapse,

good luck

[dawnies07]

Rainbowzz I have PM'd you and thank you for posting!! I am so glad I have someone at the beginning of this journey also!! Even though you are probably half way around the other side of the world!! It doesnt really matter in cyberland!!

SWIM feels more confident and much more resilient to follow this through than she ever has!!!!

Doublezero thank you also for your input...Swim is going to take your advice and taper slowly but once Swim gets down to half of what she currently takes she thinks she might just cold turkey for the rest as Swim is worried that tapering slowly puts more pressure on the psychological side of it and worry that SWims resolve may break.....

Swim does think (as betsym suggested) that she will taper off codeine and remain on the sleepers (but cut them down to one and half rather than 2 a night during the tapering) as apparently sleeplessness and Restless leg syndrome are high on the list of withdrawal symptoms...then SWIM will concentrate on coming off the sleepers also...

Swim is actually starting to feel a little excited about the idea of being drug free!! Normally the thought just terrifies me!!

Rocs friend Dave....you have helped to bring me to this stage and I thank you so much for that! I know I can rely on Dave and Patient X and Swim only joined this forum 2 weeks ago!

Look forward to getting to know you all better...

Rainbowzz........whats are start date then???

[doublezero]

good im glad swims advice is usefull to u,,,,,swim had the old restless leg syndrome wen coming off h, its a nightmare.

good luck, go with the buzz of giving up or cutting down on substances.

[Richard_smoker]

Dawnies,

best of luck to you. Personally, i'd have to recommend against kratom as it probably just extends the burnt-out and probably just prolong the amount of time you will have to wait before your own natural opiates (endorphins) return to normal levels.

also, for whatever it's worth, i would also advise you to tackle one problem at a time!! as you'll see, there is frequently a pretty long, drawn-out time that you may feel too 'wired' to sleep. This feeling can extend for several weeks after ending your opiate habit.

you're definitely on the right track by participating in this forum. I think that starting your own thread like this is extremely beneficial to the quitting effort. In fact, now that you've already voiced your intention...do you already feel a bit more confident that you'll be successful??

If not, you will. Soon enough.

You can try to taper down your dose, but this is debatable as codeine is a pretty-short lasting drug and tapering these drugs sometimes just causes the withdrawal to keep lingering on and on and on... you can imagine the mental anguish if your taper leads to mild or moderate discomfort followed by EUPHORIA when you take your next pill...this can and will happen, even with a much lower dose than you're used to.

it's kinda the nature of this beast.

one thing you can try to ease FAST withdrawals is to get a bottle of delsym cough syrup and on the first day of being off the codeine, you can try drinking 50 to 100mg every hour until the withdrawal discomfort is gone.

Just be sure you know what to expect from the delsym. Read up on DXM here if you're not familiar with the effects. Taking it in this manner will not lead to a 'heavy' experience. you shouldn't get anywhere near a 'hallucinogenic' experience. instead you might just feel a bit 'altered'-kinda relaxed in one way, maybe speeded up in another way, and if you take enough you will feel kinda 'drunk.' if you read about DXM or know about it already, your goal should be to stay somewhere in the 1st plateau. it should help take your mind off the urge to take codeine as it has a quality to it that has been demonstrated to help people break many addictive behaviors. The molecular configuration is similar to codeine but doesn't have opiate-effects. i had forgotten all about this technique until yesterday...i can tell you that before suboxone and subutex (buprenorphine) came out in the US, I knew of SEVERAL people who swore by it. if you do try the DXM or Delsym method, it shouldn't make any difference if you decide to taperyour dose down.

Anyone else have comments on this??? I admit that I could be wrong on some details---after all, it has been 3 years since I really looked into this subject. -DICK

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good, detailed, and well thought out advice

[doublezero]

swiy cud try valium or some kind of muscel relaxer,,,,,,does anyone know how long it takes to get hooked on valium. I know its not wise to replace one drug for another. It might help with the old restless leg syndrome.

It helped take the edge of H withdrawl for swim and his mates.

[dawnies07]

Swim has started the tapering process and will see how this goes for a few days.....swim normally takes 4 doses a day of 120mg of codeine but rather than taking a dose as soon as she rises at 8am she managed to wait until 12 midday for her first dose so she will only take 3 doses today and try and do this for rest of week......Swim will take her final dose soon and then will take sleepers a few hours after that and go to bed early.


DICK......yes I think you are right and quitting cold turkey probably would be more successful...Swim is just anxious that she can still function as a mum while going through it.......you suggested cough medicine which Swim is definately keen to try but does anyone in the UK know what the equivalent medicine is over here?? What is the brand name Swim would be looking for??
I looked up some info on DXM and SWIM thinks this might be worth a try to help stave off the longings! Though swim also searched youtube for effects of DXM and was abit freaked out but maybe thats when one takes much heavier doses..

Betsym thats amazing you get natural highs!! Do you get lows too though?? You sound like such a happy vibrant person! I have really enjoyed reading your posts and even just reading you and other people saying that Swim can do this actually makes Swim believe more and more that she can!

Doublezero......Swim is still debating if she should take valium to ease the process but is very concerned on becoming addicted to those also and what if she wasnt successful in coming off the codeine and ended up addicted to valium as well!! Just have to be more disciplined with them swim supposes......but to be honest Swim would rather be addicted to valium than codeine and sleepers!! At least there is no ACAP in valium!

Hope everyone had a great New Years Eve (I was in bed for 9pm!!)and heres to a clean and sober 2009!

[doublezero]

swims used valium alot, usually just 2days at a time, with a week or more between binges.........swim wouldnt like to be addicted, but if swim ever is, he knows he can go to the local drug clinic and be put on a script and they would reduce over a long time, usually 1 or 2 mls a week. But still swim would prefer not to be addicted to them.

Zopiclone/zimovane........a lady friend of swims has been on them for a few years, she tokes weed as well,,,,,but since she's been on sleepers she said her memory has got a lot worse.......how long has swiy been on your sleepers. Do swiy get that mettalic taste, and does swiy noticed any side effects

I prefer other sleepers wen i need them. Zimo's are a hypnotic sleeper, and they fuk me up. Swim has bipolar. swim dont need sleepers as his antipsycotics get him off....he's been on the same dose 200mg of clozapine(the lowest maintenance dose) and thay still do the job.........Does swiy still take the same dose as wen she started on, or do u need more the longer your on them

thanx

[dawnies07]

Swim takes 2 tablets per night and has been on them for about a year and a half.......used to take one but slowly crept up needing 2 or 1 and half a night.....
yes the original zopiclone cause a metal mouth but Swim isnt prescribed them anymore and has been taking ones bought from internet and they arent as good as the originals but dont cause the metal mouth but get swim to sleep ok......but they do seem to cause a mind blank for the whole evening after taking them!
Swim has tried not taking them but ended up awake for entire night every time! Not looking forward to stopping them but have a friend who stopped them after being on the same ones as Swim for a year and it took her a week with no sleep at all before her natural body clock kicked in again so Swim will just have to deal with that.....

[doublezero]

swim got given a sleeper called still nocht...his junky mates said they were crap, they worked for him, but that was ontop of other meds.....he got some recently and has given them to his friend on zopi's......she still hasnt tried them.........

swim dont know what the proper name is,,,,but as soon as his mate has tried them, i'll let u know

swim says they were very small, so not much other shit,,,i know zopi's contain alot of shit, half of which is probably not needed

[dawnies07]

Swim has tried stilnoct (zolpidem) and they are good but far too dear to buy on internet and Swim cant get prescribed any.....they are better than zopiclone swim thinks...but Swim wants off sleepers altogether and is hoping that Kava Kava which she ordered might help abit...though Swim knows she will have to go through a lot of sleepless nights first!

I see you are in the UK subzero.......dont know if you'd noticed but I asked in a previous post if anyone knows the brand name of a cough medicine in UK that contains DXM...do you know??

[doublezero]

robitussin,,,think the one for dry coughs,,,go to a well name chemist online and check which one,,,,,,,,,,,swim wouldnt recomend dxm to come off of opiates,,,,the americans love it.............

swim can get prescribed them, swim just walks in and says 'i need something to get to sleep for a few days, im goin through the high stage of my bi polar, i dont want zopiclone or a hypnotic type sleeping pill, i want still nocht' its best to get an emergency appointment, cus they like u to get straight to the point....

took swim less than 2mins....................phenagan/promethazine is a quite good over the counter thingy,,,its an antihystamine these days, but it used to be an anti psycotic,,,wouldnt be much good for the leg shit, but swim uses it to slow his heart down and not be so manic.....

swim wud try all the herbal shit, all the legal shit til swim found something that worked

If swims gp wont give him what he needs, he phones his key worker up, and within an hour he'd drop off some sleepers or valium, and make him an appointment with a shrink. and then swim gets the script

Swim had to learn alot before he knew how to get stuff.

[doublezero]

swims ill wiv a virus that he cant shift,,,,,,,,,cant knock up any cody cuz he done some the other day, and where he's on methadone he dont want to have to up the dose of that shit

as well as the virus he has really bad teeth pain,,,,,,,,,,,,,he wouldnt mind his brain and all that put in his clones perfect body. But the scientists are telling him that they won't do it until he gives up smoking

swims sorry about that,,he's writing some of his notes up for his book

'we will all escape' bout him and his mates breaking free form mundane life,,was just gonna be a fuk about, but he thinks it will eventually be a survival guide for modern life, and will include links to bands, his own music, and links to helpful sites on all kind of shit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,he'll probably finish it in a few years.......as he has alot of creative things on the burner........you might be able to work out what his 90's band was called,,,,,,shame there were alot of bands called it....00.......you ever want to hear any of swims music, pm me an email with the music u like,,,,he has 6 finished albums, and hundred of unfinished stuff,,,,,,,,,,,,,,trouble is he was so fuct he forgot to give them to his rock star mates to give them to there record labels,,,,,,,still probably best, he wud of been a better junky popstar than pete doherty. Petes ok, but because of his media appearance all the youngsters think smack is kool.

[dawnies07]

Hey betsym how did swiy manage yesterday with just the 2 pills??

Swim is struggling this morning already and wants to take her first dose now (9am)!! Yesterday she managed to hold off her first dose until midday which meant she took one less dose yesterday.....was hoping she could do same today but if Swim takes first dose now she will more than likely end up taking 4 doses today.......the high wears off so quickly so Swim normally doses herself every 3 to 4 hours....yesterday was 12pm then 3pm and last dose at 6pm......then Swim takes her sleepers at 8pm.......so if Swim takes dose now that wont work out.........

Its also crossing Swims mind to not take them at all today but really cant see swim doing that! Swim ordered valium and kava kava so Swim will feel better armed to make a better go of this when they arrive....

Swim is going to go do some housework here to try and distract herself from tabs for as long as possible so hopefully she will only need the 3 doses again today.......

[dawnies07]

Well Swim managed to stick to her 3 doses today......with the help of some kratom.....swim took roughly 5mgs in capsules and though it didnt give her any "euphoric" feeling, it certainly staved off the longing to take them and thats just what swim needs at the moment!!

Betsym, Swim has been searching on the Forum for codiene potentiators but there seems to be quite abit of conflict on the subject...it seems that potentiators work for opiates such as oxys or even tramadol but not necessarily for codeine....swim has tried anti acids and grapefruit juice but neither seemed to have any potentiating effect...

Swim is just happy that she was able to stick to the 3 doses today as this morning swim definately didnt think she could have done it! Mornings are the hardest time for swim and she cant seem to function at all until she gets her first dose and the earlier she takes it the harder it is then to reduce the amount of doses throughout the day.....if swims 3 year old daughter would sleep in late in the mornings a little it would help instead of 6am starts!! lol..

[AvidFan]

Just stopping by to say hope things are going well for SWIDawnies also SWIBetsym today

[dawnies07]

Betsym it sounds like swiy is having to deal with an awful lot of pain which must make this process so much harder!! Swim also has pain to deal with but not as severe as swiys.....

Swim has taken one dose so far today and is hoping to remain on 3 doses a day for a week before reducing it further...but Swim isnt very confident that this method will work and is seriously considering cold turkey.....swim is working out how far she can get with the tablets she has left and can then work out a start date....swim just hoped that if swims body was used to 120mg less a day of codeine per day, that the withdrawal might be less severe....

Swim will take some kratom soon to try and stretch the time before 2nd dose......

Swim bought a bottle of Robitusin yesterday but hasnt tried it yet.....swim cant find anything on the ingredients that would pertain to DXM though....
Can someone advise swim of how much of a 100ml bottle swim should take to help stave off withdrawal??

Swim hopes her friends Avid and Roc are doing well today!!

[dawnies07]

Thanks for that Betsym! Swim must have bought the wrong medicine!! So glad swim didnt chug any!! Swim didnt see any med called Robitussin Dm but will look again.....things have different brand names here in the UK so makes it tricky...

Hope swiy at last gets some sleep!!

[doublezero]

swim says 'it seems kratom is a great help' swim wished he knew of its potential wen swim was on the h,,,,,,,

he tried at in the early start of his clean spell(hopefully forever) on top of his juice and had a very nice mellow day.....

he recons if he knew about it as swim was getting addicted to h smokin off foil, he MAY of not got a heavey addiction or avoided the subutex and later methadone.......

when swim has some spare money next he's going to try the extract,,,as he tried the straight leaf, he knew he'd have to do 14-20grams to get a buzz, so he bought some kingsize rizla and made aload of bombs and washed it down with water, which was quite sickening

what type of kratom does your swimmer use dawnies...any experience with the extract or the liquid

swims glad your in control and your all trying things out, if swiy works out a good plan, it will help alot of people in the future,,,,,,,why can't drug clinics do the work for us,,when i see my clinic i have to educate them on such things as obagaine.....

i wouldnt dare tell them about kratom, cus they'd try and stop it as they'd love us all to be doped on methadone or subutex, so they get there fat pay checks

[dawnies07]

Swim is using red vein thai kratom in powder form....swim isnt getting any sort of buzz from it at all but it definately seems to reduce the craving for codeine!
Swim isnt really sure if she is taking the right amount (about 10 capsules, swim found some herbal capsules in house that she emptied contents out of and is using these....they are 000 size) but its helped swim lessen the amount of codeine she takes in a day....

Swim has seen clonidine mentioned many times on DF and wonders if this is something that would help her also.....swim wonders if her doctor would prescribe her them if she came clean to doctor about her addiction....or maybe they are more for stronger opiate (oxys, meth etc) addiction than swim takes...

All these things are so new to swim (kratom, DXM, clonidine, kava kava etc) and she really hasnt a clue and hadnt heard of any of them before joining DF so will try anything to help her get off these tablets!

[doublezero]

swim knows his doctor wud send him to his drug service/clinic and they would offer subutex or methadone...........the same for swims friends,,,,,,,,,occasionally they offer df's

problem is for the first few weeks swim had to go to the chemist everyday for the dosing until his urine was clean. Then twice a week pickups and then once a week. As soon as swim was aloud to take it home(twice a week pickups) he started cutting down....

dont know if swiy would consider this route as you could slowly reduce on codeine, swim would of done it with h, but as the strenght and stuff varies so much u couldnt really reduce yourself. Only problem swim had was having to drink the juice in front of people. And swim's family is big and he lives in a small town. What madce it even worse was swims mums friend worked in the chemist.....

Most of the workers and pharmasists are kool and swims on first name terms, he signed up for the contraception service and along with his weekly juioce he picks up a few bags of condoms and lubrication, mainly for his own use and for his best mate who is slightly embarassed about asking.....whats funny to swim is theres always 2 extra large condoms in each bag and it makes swim fell very inadequate,,,,,,everyone on benefits are entitled to the free contraception service. Just trying to spread safe sex man.